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 thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: gigaday 
Date:   2009-08-29 18:53

Erm, sorry this is so long ...

I have been looking up bits and pieces on this BB for a while, finding a lot of useful info and thought I could put something back by writing about my own limited experiences. Let me stress, I am an almost beginner; but what I have found out as such may interest others.

I am 64 years old, English and living in Spain. I played oboe very badly as a teenager, couldn't ever really really master the breathing and the embouchure and had a poor sense of rhythm so never got very far - I didn't like my teacher at all and she never inspired me.

While I was clearing out the house in England to move to Spain I came across a clarinet that I had had for several years with the unfulfilled intention of the realising a longterm ambition to learn to play some musical instrument to a reasonable standard before I die. (I may have left it a bit late, it's a great regret that I didn't start 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago.) The instrument is a Boosey and Hawkes wooden clarinet made in the the 1950s, I believe it to be of reasonable quality.

I bought a couple of books on jazz clarinet and got started learning Won't You Come Home Bill Bailey and after 6 months I could almost play it, but only almost. I also could just about play Careless Love including a written improvisation. I was quite pleased with my progress and really enjoyed having the instrument in my hands and just fooling around as well.

When we moved to Spain I thought I might join the local town band but realised when I heard them that I had a long way to go to get remotely to their standard. In the summer of 2008 they were advertising beginner lessons for free so I went along to the music academy to see if I could enroll. Antonio, the 35 year old teacher and leader of the junior bands, spoke to me and showed me the repertoire book for the band asking me what I thought I might be able to play, which was basically nothing. He told me that the beginner classes were full but that maybe he could give me private lessons (for a fee) and would I come back with the instrument and play him something. I played Petite Fleur and a bit of Mozart that I used to play on the oboe - not too bad really; so he said he would take my money.

Antonio is not a clarinet player nor is he a brilliant player at all, trumpet isn't great, piano is pretty good but not amazing (I hope he doesn't read this). But he is a really great guy and a very good teacher especially for kids from 8 to 18 - which is my standard! He knows quite a bit about playing clarinet although he doesn't himself, I guess he has it from the players in the band as he needs to teach it to the juniors. He introduced me to some books called Lenguaje Musical Ritmico (The Language of Musical Rhythm), there are 4 elementary and 2 medium - I am still on book 2 after a year. I have never seen these or anything like them anywhere else but they are brilliant; about 150 exercises of 12 bars in each book all fun to play and very carefully graded so that you can actually make some progress - even an idiot like me with a poor sense of rhythm.

Antonio then informed me that my tone was awful. So I read everything I could find about embouchure, reeds and mouthpieces and tried very hard to improve but Antonio told me I still sounded crap and he thought the instrument probably needed overhauling, I was convinced that it was not the instrument and bought another mouthpiece to see if that helped. Eventually I was convinced that the instrument should be looked at when Antonio managed to borrow a brand-new Yamaha for me to try for comparison. Mine was a lot better after the overhaul but of course I still need to do a lot of work on embouchure.

In the meantime I had bought a VD 5RV Lyre mpc as it was their recommendation for students and had rendered my old (probably perfectly good) Yamaha 5CM Custom unplayable by sanding the facing. At one stage while sanding the Yamaha mpc I got a wonderful mellow tone out of it except that it wouldn't play any high notes, that was before it became unplayable. I didn't find that the 5RV Lyre made anything any better and started trying to adjust reeds to improve matters - it was very hit and miss and very time consuming. I decided to have another go at the Yamaha mpc as there was nothing to lose and I might learn something, I wanted to get back to the great sound I had once had and see if I could get the top end to play. In the end I managed it, I had an mpc that played a wide variety of reeds and sounded pretty good. I did some measurements and it had a very narrow tip opening and a very long facing. I sold the 5RV Lyre on eBay. After a while of playing the re-customised Yamaha mpc I realised that if anything ever happened to it I was completely stuck as I wouldn't be able to replace it, so I bought a VD B15 as this was the smallest tip and longest facing I could find in reasonably priced off the shelf mpcs. It's great, nearly as sweet as the Yamaha and reed-friendly.

Of course, even with a reed-friendly mpc one still has to fiddle around with reeds a bit but I found the VD Trad 3s mostly played out of the box and some VD V12 3s as well. Even so I felt I was wasting too much time on fettling reeds to thought I'd try a Legere - 3 1/4 is about right, doesn't have all the sound of a wooden reed but is pretty consistent and gives a good range without squeaks. After some weeks of playing the Legere I thought I try some wooden ones again and also bought some Rico Thick Blank Concert Select which have a great big fruity tone - nice.

I came across the youtube video of Tom Ridenour fettling a reed blindfolded and thought I would have a go at that (without the blindfold). His kit sounded expensive and I couldn't find an European supplier so made up my own block with double-sided sticky tape and 400 grit wet-and-dry paper. I used an upturned pyrex cooking dish for my flat glass surface. I had a box of VD Trad 4s which I couldn't play and no-one in the band would take them off me so I set about them with the wet-and-dry block. After about 3 hours I had ruined 1 reed, had one that just about played but was all wrong and 4 that played reasonable well. The good thing about this method is that it is very controllable and even, unlike trying to use a blade to scrape. A small rolled up tube of wet-and-dry makes a very simple and cheap scraper for when you need one.

I found this diagram useful: http://web.me.com/palanker/Site/Reeds_files/Reed%20Diagram%20IMG_0004.pdf

What have I learned?

Well my playing is improving slowly, I practice with the 14 to 18 year-old band who are mostly better than me and Antonio says that I should be able to practice with the adults by Christmas - many of the 14 to 18s perform with the adults.

Those books are wonderful! My reading is steadily getting better and I am try to read-ahead as much as possible.

The longer facing, narrow tip mpc suits me, especially as it is so reed friendly.

It's useful to have the Legere reeds, I have 2 off 3 1/4s and they do get softer quicker than you might think, I have trimmed the oldest one twice with some benefit.

I like to play a variety of reeds just to get different sounds and to exercise my embouchure which got very lazy just playing the Legere.

Fettling reeds is OK as long as it doesn't take up too much time and the block sanding method seems to be quick and fairly easy.

I hope this may help someone and that I haven't bored the rest of you.

Tony

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2009-08-30 01:28

Wow, I thought I was aclectic! Keep the enthusiasm. I might suggest that Ridenour's sanding block is more than a flat sanding block. It is important that the foam covering the block doesn't go right to the edges. 10mm estimate. This creates a bevel so the sides of the reed are not adjusted too agressively.
If I was you I would try to pursue the jazz style. Buy several play along CD,s and then find likeminded individuals who want to play with you. piano, drums, bass, trpt for eg. If you are a good organizer this might be a great outlet. Find tunes you like to play and go at it.

Freelance woodwind performer

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: Maruja 
Date:   2009-08-30 11:28

Hi - I am a similar age to you and have been playing clarinet for about a year with all the ups and downs that you describe. Since I now have plenty of time, (I sort of gather that you do too..) I have been able to practise much more now than I would ever have done earlier in my life and also have a little more disposal income to indulge myself.

I am interested in your books - Lenguaje Musical Ritmico - and will see if I can get them here in the UK (Amazon or Casa del Libro) - as I too am rather weak on rhythm.

I found the Legere reeds a revelation as I could then cast aside at least one of the reason why I squeak (although my teacher disapproves of their rather 'bright' what he calls American marching band tone) - it wasn't the fault of the reed. One good thing my teacher has said is always to look at the clarinet itself before blaming yourself - I was unused to this point of view, only having played piano (badly) before).

I will get back on this thread if I can't find the books available in the UK. You may need to tell me where I can get them in Spain

Maruja

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: Maruja 
Date:   2009-08-30 17:59

Tony

I have found a source of the Lenguaje Musical but there is no description of how it works - it is for music generally - how does it work for the clarinet? Should I order book one, assuming that I am not brilliant rhythmically?

I assume it is not just music theory?

Many thanks for any advice

Marujita

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: gigaday 
Date:   2009-08-30 19:09
Attachment:  scan0001.jpg (1811k)
Attachment:  scan0002.jpg (1873k)

Maruja, thanks for your interest.

The books aren't specifically for the clarinet but are perfect for it anyway - there are bass clef exercises but can ignore these as you will want only treble clef.

It took me quite a few weeks to complete book 1 so I would suggest that you start there. If it's too easy for you - oh well!

I am going to try to attach scanned examples from books 1 and 2 so you can judge for yourself.

Tony

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: Maruja 
Date:   2009-08-31 13:53

Thank you very much for your email - I replied on the other address but wasn't sure if it had got to you, so will duplicate here.

Happy clarinetting! I will buy book one and see how I get on....

Maruja

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: redwine 
Date:   2009-09-01 13:12

Hello Gigaday,

I have some great contacts and resources in Spain. If you're interested, contact me directly. Best of luck!

Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com



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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: gigaday 
Date:   2009-09-12 20:17

Many thanks to all who showed an interest in my post. Maruja, did you have any luck with the book of exercises?

As I mentioned earlier, I fettled up some VD Trad 4s to play in my VD B15 mpc; I usually play 3s but had the 4s in the bottom of a drawer.

There are 2 reeds that I have worked that seem to be identical - I have mapped their measurements to .01 of a millimeter with a digital caliper and they are near enough the same and both seem to be balanced. One plays well up to G on the 4th line above the stave and sounds good. The other plays the same EXCEPT that it is very hard to play A on the 1st line above up through B flat and B. These notes play fine for me on any good working reed, so the problem must be the reed.

Any ideas why 2 apparently identical reeds should be different? Every piece of cane is an individual, of course.

But, more importantly, any ideas on which part of the reed - tip, corners, heart - might be the culprit?

Tony

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2009-09-13 01:59

Heart .....many people say avoid the heart.... I say lightly dust the heart to free things up.

Freelance woodwind performer

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: gigaday 
Date:   2009-09-13 12:28

Thanks Arnoldstang, I'm trying that, but not quite there yet. I am (fairly) determined to find the answer, not because the actual reed itself is important but just to get an idea of how to deal with this particular facet.

PS. Update: I finally got it working well by taking a touch off both edges at the thick part of the vamp.

PPS. I found that marking the part of the reed I wanted to work on by shading with a softish pencil and then just removing the pencil marks helped.

Tony



Post Edited (2009-09-13 19:10)

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 Re: thoughts on reeds, mpcs and getting started
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2009-09-13 14:37

My recent experience with plastic oboe reeds may be related. I bought a few plastic oboe reeds recently just to see how horrible they are these days. The biggest problem was the how the reed blades closed. On oboe the sides should close first and then gradually work towards the center. The center closes last. Many times oboe reeds have blade curves where the largest aperature is not centered side to side on the reed. They still can play well. These blades just flapped together like two single flat reeds with the center and the sides closing simultaneously. The result is a chanter like sound. It just isn't characteristic of what you want.
On clarinet if you scrape too much out of the heart this blatty , chanter like sound will occur. My recommendation is just don't overdo it. That doesn't mean you can't touch the heart during reed adjustment.

Freelance woodwind performer

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