 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinetPlayer_18
Date: 2009-08-29 07:20
So I've been reasearching army/airforce/military bands as best I can but there are some questions I haven't been able to answer and so I'd like to start a new post about this. My largest question:
If you are in an army band, can the government send you off to a combat job or are you strictly working on music as a career? Basically, are you going to get shot at?
Thanks to anyone who gives their time to read this and post if possible.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-29 11:57
Good Question!!
The aswer is no, and yes.
If you win a spot in any of the "Special Bands" such as in DC or at one of the Military Academy's, your job is ONLY to play music. In fact "The President's Own (Marine Band) doesn't even have to go to Basic Training.
In the regular Army Band system there are a number of posts whose bands "deploy" with the rest of the soldiers affiliated with that command. Of course, these days the duty is mostly musical but there are some security post details, gymnasium details etc. that occur in "safe" zones.
The ONLY "casualty" the band program sustained so far in all this time of active war was a saxophonist who was grazed in the face by a stray bullet.
There are actually a number of us that actively seek out "deployments" because there is a lot of extra cash and miltitary awards associated that can aid in promotion ( read: extra cash).
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Brianj
Date: 2009-08-29 12:13
18,
If I read your question right, you are asking if the Army will suddenly make you an infantrymen. If that is what you are asking, the answer is no, they cannot. You will sign up as a clarinet player and that will be your job. Now Paul is right, if you go to a band that deploys, you may have to guard things and be in some combat-like situations when you are going to a gig to keep yourself and your group safe. Hey, there is a war on, and you want to be safe. Talking to my friends in deployed bands, however, they are doing a ton of music while deployed. Like I said earlier, I am willing to talk to you offline and answer any questions you may have. I am getting ready to retire, and I need to find my replacement.
Brian
brian.jungen@us.army.mil
brickbinder@hotmail.com
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-08-29 12:58
Well, it depends how bad is the situation....
If the govermnent would like to win the combat , they will send well traind
fighters. But if the battle is lost---they may send even a musician.
The American govermnent will not send a musician to fight.
Sarah
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-29 14:15
I think the posts above answered your question but I'll add that I have many students playing in various service bands and no one has ever gone to combat. I always tell my students to try to get into one of the top tier bands, I believe their listed as grade 4 and 5 but I could be wrong on that. The pay is higher, the job is all or mostly performing and you don't have to go into a combat zone. By the way, the Coast Guard band also does not require basic training. Remember though, the really good bands are very competitive but there are more openings than in our Symphony Orchestra's. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: ClarinetPlayer_18
Date: 2009-08-29 14:28
If you audition and can get into the bands, even if just the lowest level of bands, is it simple to keep a job there (and maybe have a chance at moving up in bands as you get better) for 20 years? or even until the age of like 55 or something?
I'm wondering because this is sounding like a better and better option since it seems like I'd need a miracle to get an orchestra job though I only need an immense ammount of skill for the military bands. Haha... As far as I know, the skill part is mostly up to me so i feel like it is a great opportunity. I just certainly hope they wouldn't send a musician to war haha.. Idk what I'd do. Maybe throw my bad reeds at the enemy? Or maybe play on them?
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Author: Brianj
Date: 2009-08-29 14:46
Yes, you can get into a "regular" band like the one I am in, and then audition for a band like the US Army Field Band or the West Point Band. I actually served with one of the West Point Band clarinetist while I was in Japan. He audition for West Point, won and went there. Also, once you are in, you have to keep up your skills, but you are pretty much in unless you totally stop practicing and don't care, and you do not sound like that type of person. Also, you have a band in your area, the 56th Army Band at Ft. Lewis, you should give them a call and check them out. I can give you their phone number if you would like.
SSG Brian Jungen
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Author: ClarinetPlayer_18
Date: 2009-08-29 15:00
I'd like that very much. It would be a cool job since it's sounding like a pretty safe one and yeah haha.. the practicing wouldn't be an issue. I love the clarinet and I want to be as good as I can be, and so I wnt a job playing it so that I can practice and enjoy without worrying about a next paycheck. If you wanted to give me any more information about anything I'd love it but I have to go for a bit sadly... ah well.
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2009-08-29 15:06
Great to hear how excited you are to play! I just wanted to say my fiance auditioned for the Air Force, and he played clarinet with one of the regular bands (not the elite, which are obviously the best and possibly you don't have to do boot camp)
He DID have to do boot camp (which was more of a mental torture than a physical one according to him); and when he actually started the job it turned out only 1/2 the time was playing. The other 1/2 he did paperwork and drove this truck - it was RELATED to the band but that was 20 hours a week he had to work but not play. This was glossed over (big time) when he was recruited.
I had also auditioned (as an oboist) but I didn't get in and I was glad. NOT that I'm saying the armed forces are a bad way to go - I think it could be a great career! Just make them spell EVERYTHING out, and be prepared for the unexpected (as in all life!) If you can, go learn your craft as best you can before you get in so you may end up in an elite band (although if you are that good, you might land a symphony job)
My good friend plays trumpet in an air force reserve (part time) band and they just returned from 2 months in Iraq. They felt pretty safe and it was kind of cool to go support the troops as well as getting to travel - but it was 120 degrees and hotter (!) and of course he had no choice about going, even thought his wife is expecting any day. Food for thought.
One more thing - you should check the pay for the symphony jobs opening up - it is pretty awful. We just have an audition for 2nd oboe and the pay is only 16K! Still it was VERY competitive and people came from all over the US to audition. The military bands probably are a more secure option financially!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-29 15:55
Well the skinny on the "extra jobs" now is that you no longer have to worry about being a truck driver. There are office support positions, however, since the bands pretty much run their own lives. The sticking point in the regular bands is that the longer you are in, the higher ranking you are, the more responsibilities you have for running day to day operations. This translates into much less practice time and more paperwork time. But as stated above you can move into the better bands along the way with some things to keep in mind:
You need a year on station before the Army will consider moving you again (translation- they just spent money getting you there in the first place). So don't count on a audtion for the Field Band within your first year and a half (to include basic training). Then, every time you DO move to another assignment (every two or three years in the Army) you have to wait that year before you'll be allowed to audition for a specialty band again.
My advice. Find out how good you are first. Line up at least one DC band audition and see how you do. From what I remember, when The President's Own has an audition, you can even opt to just show up without having sent in a tape in advance ....... this is the best practice !!!!
If you're not having luck with that, by all means line up an audition with an Army recruiter for the Band Program. REMEMBER, the audition for Specialty bands are DIRECTLY with them - DO NOT SEE A RECRUITER about those. Look in the International Muscian or a website such as "Musical Chairs."
........again,
.......................good luck,
..................................Paul Aviles
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Author: ClarinetPlayer_18
Date: 2009-08-29 16:38
I'm currently planning on attending a university for up to four years to go for some sort of music degree. (and though family and scholorship help I've got it all paid for minus 5k a year i'll have in loans, which means I won't have to work in college but can instead use the time to practice)
Would it be a good idea to try to audition with either the field or specialty bands and see how I do now? Or maybe in a year or two? Or should I get a degree first? Or does it even matter? (you were talkinga bout using it as a standard or as practice to see how you do, the auditions aren't making a comittment or anything right?)
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Author: jenni
Date: 2009-08-29 17:05
Hey!
I've just started along the military band path now, although I'm in England where things are a little different. It's such a good option - you are paid to do something you love doing, and once you get through boot camp (which I'm half way through at the moment) all the running about with rifles and "lets all kill the enemy" stops and you get to be a proper musician!
I'd encourage you to go for an audition and see what the result is. You've nothing to lose! I don't know about in America but the British army do give you money towards further study and qualifications so they may be able to help you financially with a music degree while you are working for them - just a thought, and like I said I don't know how the Americans work on that side of things.
Also - the army get loads of benefits such as cheap housing, cheap food, healthcare... it may sound boring but it saves you a whole lot of money!
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Author: ClarinetPlayer_18
Date: 2009-08-29 17:30
Are these groups somthing people audition for out of high school or like after a few years of practice after high school?
A lot of people are making it out to sound as if most highschoolers could just audition and get their college tuition payed while playing int ehre but I have a hard time imagining any high-schoolers (at least that i know) making it in.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-08-29 18:06
You sound like you're in a pretty good financial situation right now. This is certainly a viable option with significant perks, and I think it's great that you're looking into it. You're at a point where you can very easily explore a LOT of different things that you might like to do for the rest of your life; I'd recommend perhaps casting your net a bit wider before getting too concerned about the particulars of one narrow option, lest you end up with buyer's remorse.
I'd suggest getting a degree first, seeing as you're not hard up for cash... along the way you might get a better sense of what you want to do (and, more importantly, why you want to do it... I didn't figure that one out until last year), keeping your options as wide open as you can, while knowing that things like armed forces clarinetist are possible down the road. I see a lot of people very dedicated to a single goal at the start of college (mine was to be a sought-after game programmer and designer), who end up finding something they like even better that completely derails their original plans. Though many would probably disagree, I'd say that the start of college is a great time to NOT have any long-term goals or plans, or at least not very specific ones.
The auditions, while probably not tied to a commitment, are likely to coax you in that direction. The possibility will probably remain at the top of your list, and might inadvertently make you less flexible toward other possibilities. Just a thought.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: patrickryan04
Date: 2009-08-29 18:16
The answer is yes... If you join an Army Band and go through basic you can be sent to combat. I was in Iraq 2007-2009 most bands are kept on larger operation bases throughout the country however you are subject to morters coming on the base. Also you are likely to partake in more then a few convoys which present other hazards, like IED's or roadside bombs and the occasional "pop shot" where an assailant will try to take a quick shot at you and escape. There are many bandsmen with CABs Combat Action Badges. These badges worn on the uniform indicating that you were involved in direct combat.
1st Armored Division Band
Clarinetist
Dixie Band
Woodwind Quintet
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-29 18:54
Just keep in mind, like mentioned above, while it IS a paid, secure musical job, it is the Army. First and foremost, everyone is a soldier. That means you have to adhere to the professional standards of the military.
1st) Are you even ABLE to enter the military? Can you (or would be able to after basic training) pass the physical, the physical fitness test, the height/weight standards, the test to enter (although in my experience, musicians tend to score pretty high and be pretty smart), etc.
2nd) How do you feel about the MILITARY? It has benefits, but it has drawbacks. And once you get into a military band, it's NOT all "band". There's training, PT tests, etc. And you don't necessarily get to play the music you want to play. You play what the commander wants you to play. And you have to do all the military stuff.
It's certainly a career/life affecting choice and you're smart to ask questions before walking into a recruiter's office (See? I TOLD you musicians are pretty smart!)
As for high schoolers getting in, it depends what level of musician you are. I was let in. The majority of musicians at my high school would NOT have gotten in. I wouldn't put it in terms of "high school musician" cause there's all sorts of levels of high school musicians. The good news is, if you take an audition and DON'T get in, they tell you why, and what you need to work on. If you DO get in, it's because they feel that you can graduate AIT at the necessary level.
And to PATRICKRYAN04, hurry the hell up and get over here! I wanna go home!!!
Alexi
1st Cav Band
Dixie NCOIC and Clarinet quartet this deployment.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-08-29 19:03
As for Alexi's first point: If I had gotten advice leading me to even think about military bands after my undergrad performance degree, I would have been seriously disappointed because I developed Type 1 diabetes my senior year in college. I would have planned/auditioned to go and then would have been ineligible.
Not saying your circumstances would be the same, but whatever you do please ALWAYS keep an open mind about other opportunities "just in case."
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-29 19:50
Kat,
It happens. The problem is some people think of the military and military bands AS their backup plan. It's not a joke. Many people think "I could do that", and I say right back, "No you can't." Cause they're too heavy. Or can't run a mile. Or have had an injury that might preclude them.
Also, I know of military musicians who HATE their job. Cause the military isn't what they thought it would be. They love playing music, but hate the inspections, the ceremonies, the occasional deployments, the fact that you have to respect someone's rank even if you don't respect the person, the frequent moves from city to city every few years, etc. etc. That's MILITARY. To me it's not can you be a military musician, it's can you be in the military. The musician will be there, but it IS second. Soldier first, job second.
No offense, but if you're a good musician, it doesn't necessarily mean I want you in the army band with me. But if you're a good musician, and I don't have to police up after you because you're a crappy soldier or don't give a damn about the military side, then I'm all for you joining. Make sure you can handle the military side.
Alexi
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-08-30 00:12
Hi,
As a former bandsmen with the Signal Training Center Band at Ft. Gordon just about 50 years ago, I really liked it. But then, I was very comfortable with regimentation and the notions that has been stressed so well above It is The Army.
The "toughest" duty was the annual Master Parade (3 different bands on post combined) and the weekend concerts up at Clark Hill Dam. We had weekly orientations & graduations, retreat parades, basketball games, concerts, etc. The band had what I would call "decent" player and several very fine ones. No one was a slouch!
These were some of the best years of my life. I learned several major life lessons, grew up a little bit, and had my first command responsibilities. I finished my hitch, went back and completed my BSEd in Music Ed., taught for a very long time, moved up to college teaching in another field, and still play lots here in Toledo.
Without the Army, I wonder how it would have been different. But I am confident that because of my military experience, I am better for it.
HRL
PS When the peace time GI Bill kicked in, I really made use of it. The government really got its money's worth.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2009-08-30 00:37
Without going into details, I was accepted for a post band, but ended up on the DMZ in Korea. The army or any military unit will use you as you are most needed, without great reguard to education or ability, even after testing. At least, this is my experience. e.g. I had a buddy who was a golden globe award winning journalist who ended up in Korea also. Hmmmmm. Anyhow, my advise, is: if you want to serve your country then join. If you want to play clarinet, then why do you want to be in the Army? Joining the military for money is a bad idea in my humble opinion.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-08-30 18:28
If you are in a combat zone and your unit comes under attack you better drop your clarinet and grab a gun. If you do you might get shot at by the enemy, if you don't you might get shot at by your own.
Bob Draznik
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Author: ClarinetPlayer_18
Date: 2009-08-30 19:50
Yeah.. This is my only real concern. I honestly don't have a huge interest in "national pride" or anything. I don't really like a lot of the things about our country anyway and I don't want to fight at all either way, especially not when I think most people in both of the countries are great people.
In all honesty, I want to be a musician and not a soldier and I am just looking for a job, or looking ahead to possibilities. I don't care to be a soldier but I've read the slogan about "being paid to follow your passion in music" and that sounds like a musician's job, not a soldiers, and so I am just looking into it. Please don't criticize me or think less of me if I don't want to be a soldier haha.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-08-30 21:38
You cannot say do not criticize me for this. Find something else to do. I could not serve but my father, many uncles and friends served and some died. I think this borders on a disgraceful attitude.
"Yeah.. This is my only real concern. I honestly don't have a huge interest in "national pride" or anything. I don't really like a lot of the things about our country anyway and I don't want to fight at all either way, especially not when I think most people in both of the countries are great people.
In all honesty, I want to be a musician and not a soldier and I am just looking for a job, or looking ahead to possibilities. I don't care to be a soldier but I've read the slogan about "being paid to follow your passion in music" and that sounds like a musician's job, not a soldiers, and so I am just looking into it. Please don't criticize me or think less of me if I don't want to be a soldier haha."
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-08-30 22:10
If you don't want to be a soldier, then why are you even wasting people's time by asking about military bands? It's like saying, "I don't want to do concerts, but how can I join the symphony?"
While military bandsmen are generally not involved in direct combat, don't go on patrols and don't try try to engage the enemy, it's not unheard of for musicians in forward areas to come under fire along with everyone else near them. It's a chance you take as a soldier. Same thing can happen with finance clerks, cooks, typists and dentists. (See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_L._Salomon for an example.) Realistically, though, most bandsmen never see a shot fired in anger.
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Author: ClarinetPlayer_18
Date: 2009-08-30 22:40
I'm sorry if you feel I am wasting your time by asking. I am trying to figure out whether it is a job as a musician with a slightly different lifestyle than most or if it's the life of a soldier with music thrown in. Since I don't know much about it I didn't think it was a bad thing to ask.
And I'm sorry if you don't agree with any of my opinions about the military and country or the armed service in general but please don't take it to mean disrespect for anyone who does serve. I don't mean to be disrespectful at all to anyone, much less those who take on a committment to protect the country they serve and the people in it. I personally don't like much the idea of national pride though I greatly respect the desire and actions taken to defend the people you love.
So I am sorry if in any way I conveyed a sense of disrespect to anyone or about anything someone else here cares a lot about, it was not my intention.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-31 00:22
"...but please don't take it to mean disrespect for anyone who does serve. I don't mean to be disrespectful at all to anyone, much less those who take on a committment [sic] to protect the country they serve and the people in it."
And yet you did precisely that. I regret ever having made the suggestion to you. You obviously don't have what it takes to be in an armed forces band. Don't bother contacting a recruiter. Recruiters are busy with people who are actually interested in what the military has to offer. And the recruits are proud of the country they live in, too. My apologies to those who are serving. I made a huge error.
Good luck to you wherever you end up, kid. You're gonna need it.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-31 06:16
I'm not upset at you're not really having national pride. After all, the whole basis behind our government and freedom is that you are ALLOWED to think and voice your opinions, even if they aren't necessarily beneficial to our government.
However based on how you feel about the army and not having national pride, I'd recommend not joining a military band. If you don't want to fight either way (which is always a possibility), and don't really have interest in serving our nation or pride in our nation, you don't want the Army and the Army likewise would not want you.
Good luck in anything else you decide to do. And keep on playin'. And if you ever do have a desire to serve our country and troops, there are definitely ways to support either without having to serve in the military. Even if it is just the occasional 4th of July concert.
Alexi
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-31 10:26
There are A LOT of different types in the service bands, of all political stripes and monetary means. I think the rhetoric in this thread should calm down and be more realistic. I serve. I get paid and that's fine by me. As long as I don't have a political opinion in uniform everyone is ok with that.
Being completely adult about this means accepting that there are lots of different folks serving for lots of different reasons ...... even some because we just love to play music AND GET PAID TO DO IT.
THANK YOU,
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2009-08-31 14:12
In 20 years in as a clarinetist in a major military special band, I found that the knife in the back was the weapon I had to worry about not the road side bomb. Special bands will never see combat unless the hordes are at the shore. Hell the marine band isn't allowed to carry weapons. So don't join a Marine band unless you're auditioning in DC at the barracks, and here is another rule Never join a Military band that you're not auditioning at their rehearsal space. If you're auditioning in SC for a gig in NY you just might be in Iraq in between.
Just be aware recruiters are trying to meet goals and will tell people lots of stuff to get them to join. But I gotta say some of the recruitment stuff I've heard colleges tell prospective music students is even worse. At least a military recruiter is being honest in that there is a Job for you if you sign up.
Tom Puwalski, former clarinet soloist and principal clarinetist with the U.S. Army Field Band, author of The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer, More Klezmer Gig tunes and Clarinet Basic Training.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-08-31 17:06
Sounds passive/aggressive to me....I'm out.
Bob Draznik
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Author: chipper
Date: 2009-08-31 17:40
Paul's message waaaayyyyy.... back said the only casuality he knew of was the sax player. Friendly fire from the first clarinetist???
Chipper
'nam era USN
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-09-01 01:28
Dear Chipper,
Funny you should ask. I don't know the answer to that one. Usually word gets around about stuff like that. Perhaps this board will suss it out.
I realize you are being tungue-in-cheek.
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Wes
Date: 2009-09-01 21:38
In 1950, I was a clarinetist in a National Guard band that was called up to go to boot camp and then to Korea. We had been to summer camps several times and had to qualify with rifles on the shooting ranges and also did KP, etc. We played "Darktown Strutter's Ball" many times on army truck beds in the blacked out camps. It was our understanding that the band would serve as stretcher bearers in combat, who do get shot at.
By writing a couple of letters, I received a postponement to finish college and the band left without me. I never heard what happened to them.
I continued to study with Mr. Handlon and got my degree six months later, got a job, and was thankful that I was not in Korea. It would have been an educational experience that most of us would not have liked.
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Author: graham
Date: 2009-09-02 13:07
The position in Britain is not really relevant to the poster's question, except in a round about way.
Back in about 1990 British military bandsmen were required to prove themselves more "useful" than they had been in the past, and ended up being medics as their second trade. It does not seem from Jenni's post that this is necessarily still the case. But my point is that they then became exposed to stretcher bearing etc in combat zones. On the strength of that, one full time miltary band ended up in Gulf War 1. And there did not seem to be any kind of opt out for those who had entered the band on a different basis. They had also permanently made themselves reservists, which meant that they stood a greater chance of call-up than even the territorials in the event of war arising after they had left the army.
Check the small print....
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-09-02 13:13
Yes; once they know you exist, they might call you for whatever kind of service if the county is in dire need of help. The small print won't help you a lot in an emergency.
--
Ben
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-09-02 17:43
I still maintain that it's much more likely for an army bandsmen to get seriously injured in the United States than deployed. In my first three days of leave (R&R from Iraq), I was almost hit twice by cars crossing multiple lanes to get to the lefthand turn lane, and encountered someone driving the wrong way down a one-way road right at me. That doesn't include the NORMAL everyday bad drivers I have to avoid in my car or on my motorcycle.
Alexi
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