 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Suzy
Date: 2000-11-15 15:23
STAY AWAY FROM INTERNATIONAL MUSIC SUPPLIERS!!!!!
They overcharge and they find other ways of sucking money from you, like restocking fees and different prices than what is listed in the catalogue. PLUS they'll TRY to take 20% more money from you if your returns aren't postmarked by a certain day.
Lisa does not run a good business and I will NEVER shop there again. She has made it clear to me (although didn't even have the balls to tell me herself, she had one of her little "helpers" talk with me each time) that her customers do NOT come first.
Stay away unless you want to be bent over too.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-15 15:50
And I've had absolutely nothing but fine service from IMS for years - even before I got interested in clarinet. As we've said again and again:
YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).
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Author: The Dad
Date: 2000-11-15 15:57
I have found the service at IMS to be excellent. I have purchased from them many times.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2000-11-15 17:15
Likewise, when I purchased a new instrument from them, Lisa was most helpful.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-11-15 17:22
The only problem with IMS is that they won't become sponcers of Sneezy. Lets keep pushing!!!!!!!
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Author: ron
Date: 2000-11-15 17:50
I agree with Suzy, Lisa runs a terrible business, plus shes a pain in the ass.
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Author: Just a Clarinet Mom
Date: 2000-11-15 18:06
Am I the only one who finds the language and tone of this message objectionable? Might I suggest that if the author attempted to resolve whatever problem she had using the same attitude she displays here, it is understandable that she did not meet with success. It is a mark of maturity and intelligence to express oneself and communicate with others without resorting to offensive behavior. Whatever happened to decent manners? I guess I just didn't expect to read things like this on the Sneezy BB.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-15 18:11
It's on the boundary of good taste.
You might notice the language used and the maturity levels, even though I'd have thought that someone at Yale's music school would have had a decent English education before they allowed him in, and could have used more colorful yet incisive language, a la G. B. Shaw.
So much for "Ivy League" ...
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Author: drew
Date: 2000-11-15 18:16
I've made two major instrument purchases from IMS within the last year, my experience has been overwhelmingly positive.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-15 18:54
Just wondering, Suzy - did they violate their written policy? If so could you give us particulars? Or did you just get "caught" going over the time limit? Their written policy is:
<blockquote>
Our Return Policy:
Returned merchandise will be accepted if postmarked within two weeks of the invoice date. If you anticipate your return is going to be late, call us before the two weeks are up and we will extend the due date by 7 days. All merchandise returned after 2 weeks and before 30 days is subject to a 20% restock fee. NO EXCEPTIONS. Merchandise returned after 30 days will not be accepted under any circumstances.
Restock Fees:
• Barrels, Mouthpieces, items under $200.00
$ 3.00 each
• Mouthpieces over $200.00
$ 5.00 each
• Instruments and items over $200.00
$10.00 each
• Guardala mouthpieces
$25.00 each
</blockquote>
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-15 19:59
To be perfectly honest, I have had (some) good & (some) bad experiences with ALL of the major catalogue retailers. They have a tough business; we ETAIL customers do, too!
My experiences haven't been (quite) bad enough to swear off ever buying from the catalogue purveyors, nor (quite) good enough to profess undying love for (any of) them! (Follow this last observation of mine, its important. Why? Because those etailers/catalogue merchants probably didn't have the most wonderful experiences of their retail lives with me (or you) either!)
Pet Peeve: Some merchants have adopted a policy of quoting prices by catalogue on the web, when they know that they will never sell THAT low. In fact, one major catalogue seller told me that they (purposely) did this (posting catalogue prices already "superceded" by a "manufacturer's" price change) to keep the competition honest! I won't say who, but they should *stop* this practice immediately in an attempt to earn our UN-requited love. This policy works to the detriment of (us) klarinet-consumers! This is *NOT* a good policy. Its called "baiting" in the retail trade.
Nevertheless, while FRUSTRATION is tough to deal with at times, I think we can avoid conversations like this. If you've been treated badly, practice a policy to "not forget" and take your business elsewhere.
Onwards more placidly,
mw
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-11-15 20:10
Suzy -
I'm sure most of us are very sympathetic but feel at a loss how to help you. Is 'arbitration' a possibility?
In similar situations, it has helped me to remember that:
A soft answer turns away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
It often works wonders... a soft word.
Ron B
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-11-15 20:17
The only negative I had with IMS is there shipping fee. I wanted to buy one Legare reed and the shipping was $5.95. WW&b was $3.00
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Author: gRAHAM gOLDEN
Date: 2000-11-15 20:52
Hi,
I have never had a bad experience with IMS.
I am sorry you did.
Graham
PS please use Vacuums next time ( instead of sucks)
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-11-15 21:28
Better reread your Adam Smith.
I come down on the overwhelmingly POSITIVE estimation of the inestimable Lisa and her crew.
They run a tight ship, FOR A PROFIT, and are more than accomodating to begnning schlubs like me.
These people (and thei erstwhile competitors) offer great selection and quick service that the Mall stores of the world seem disinterested to provide us.
I've had particularly good, FREE advice from their woodwind desk that steered me toward less expensive products. Cutting through the hype is tough and these folks never hesitate.
Catalogs are printed well in advance of mailings. Prices are subject to change.
They quote the price before shipping.
I don't work for free, I certainly don't expect IMS/Muncy/WW&BW to do so either.
Getta grip
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Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-11-15 21:31
I have been there several times and have had nothing but good experiences. the sale people have been very helpfull and polite.My only complaint is that since I am a local resident and buy directely from the store I am charged the local sales tax which includes extra taxes for the downtown area of Des Plaines Illinois. this makes it one of the highest sales tax areas in the state. If you are going to buy anything expensive you are much better off buying it as an out of state resident.
Also you might want to take a few moments and read the sales policys before you tell the whole world that you were taken advantege of. This also go's for every other mail order firm in business. If they did not have firm and IMHO fair policies they would soon be out of business.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-15 23:57
Ron, you could have it mailed to a P O Box elsewhere in IL. But, you'd have to pay the shipping/handling charge. Whcih would probably obviate the savings from reduced sales tax.
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Author: Karel V.
Date: 2000-11-16 00:28
I have had two occasions to deal with IMS and have had good service both times, and this is to Australia. I had courteous advice and prompt attention. The only problem I had was that some of my e-mail messages seemed to get lost between department e-mail addresses. Apart from that, my congratulations on good service.
Karel.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-11-16 01:24
IMS has always treated me well in my visits there. Lisa is friendly, courteous and keeps the most complete stock of clarinets and supplies that I have seen anywhere. The staff is knowledgable, helpful and always willing to bring out just one more mouthpiece, barrel or clarinet for me to try. I look foreward to my next visit and know in advance that I will not be disappointed. My vote is for LISA and IMS.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-16 02:23
I had an interesting experience with Woodwind & Brasswind recently. I bought a Kooiman thumbrest over the phone. The advertised price was $119.96. I was not advised of a price change when I placed the order. When I received the shipment the price was listed as $164.95. I called to straighten out the mistake. I was bounced around their phone system for 20 minutes before I got to talk to someone. When I explained the situation I was told that the price had gone up. I said that they had a responsibility to tell me that at the outset. The woman I spoke to agreed, but said that it had slipped through the cracks. So I said, "What would you suggest?" She went through her patter again. I said, "Fine. So what would you suggest?" She said, "It sounds like you want me to lower the price. I can't do that." I said, "So you have no suggestion. I've wasted my lunch. Thank you. Good bye!" Awhile later, she called back. She had cleared it with her supervisor to sell me the product at the advertised price. I said, "That makes me feel a lot better. I'm not trying to drive you out of business. Let's split the difference and meet in the middle." She said, "All right." She sounded flumoxed. I still don't know why I gave her the extra $22. I guess I appreciated her gesture enough to want to pay for it. So, Mark, were you referring to the Woodwind & Brasswind?
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-16 03:49
No, I wasn't. (However, Kooiman did raise (*jack*) the price of their Thumbrest as stock ran out in North America & not even WW&BW could get it lowered by their (sheer) volume buying. The extra mounting plate for $10.00 is understandable because its gold, right?) : - )
Nope, its another company. I won't mention any names. BUT, when you check this company's printed catalogue prices a LARGE % have changed. Like I said, I asked why all the discrepancies. They said there were price changes. I said "but you brought the new catalogues to ClarinetFest & I called immediately afterward with orders & the prices had already changed." AND ... Web prices can be changed as quickly as they (might) care to change them. AHHH, but they want to lure me into calling & I do because their prices are better, err looked better.
I run a business, too. (as many of you do) When I quote a price, that price is good come hell or high water. I also believe in cutting the other guy some slack, too. Thats what Ken did.
I can understand a difference. But months later this etailer should have it right.
I should also add that I have checked to see if there have been any (manufacturer or supplier effected) price increases during this time for the (afftected) items I purchased. The answer was NO. Many of the etailers are equally guilty. OK, I'm off the peeve box.
I just hope SOMEBODY see this & changes their "policy".
mw
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Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-11-16 15:57
to Mark W. IF you buy from IMS At their Store in Des Plaines you must pay the sales tax no matter what your home address. and any shipment sent within Illinois is subject to local sales tax. Shipment sent outside of any state that they have a physical location are not subject to state sales tax. Perhaps I should move to Indiana or Texas b-4 buying a R-13. This rule applies to all mail order companies in the united states.
P.S. the local sales tax is over 8% in DesPlaines IL. and only 6 3/4% in my home town in Illinois.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-16 17:22
We prepare sales tax returns (professionally) for a living. Generally speaking, all states in the U.S. follow a general rule that sales tax is collected based upon the rate iun effect in the county or municipality where the sale (actually) occurs (where title legally passes). I am hardpressed to think of a state where this doesn't occur. (TX, KS, OK, etc) The reason is obvious, if this is not done than the municipality which would otherwise share in the sales tax collection (e.g. the local sales tax) would get ZERO.
Further, remember what I wrote.
"Ron, you could have it mailed to a P O Box elsewhere in IL. But, you'd have to pay the shipping/handling charge. Which would probably obviate the savings from reduced sales tax."
What I (obviously) meant was that you could call them on the phone & have it sent to the P.O. Box. Certainly you couldn't drive to the store in person, make a purchase, have them send it to out-of-the-area address & get a different (reduced)sales tax rate. That would be an (obvious) action in avoidance of tax, as the sale occurred IN that jurisdiction.
Finally, we have many clients who DO (just) charge an In-State customer the rate for sales in their jurisdiction, regardless of where delivery & sale occurs (they don't know better!). EX: Sale made to a Tulsa builder by an Electrical parts distributor in Oklahoma City. These goods are shipped (fob destination). The sale actually occurs in Tulsa. Our client may charge the Oklahoma City sales tax rate & would remit the sales to the State as having occured in Oklahoma City. This can be difficult to work with from a practical standpoint.
The answer for the CUSTOMER is easy; they should tell the Vendor that they should be charging the (applicable) TULSA rate & the situation gets fixed !
We are members of an Alliance (Association of Accounting Firms) & have a "brother-sister" accounting firm in suburban Chicago. I have just placed a call to their Tax Partner to clarify the IL sales tax collection rules.
mw
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Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-11-16 18:35
Having submitted illinois sales tax on two stores I owned I can tell you that it is not possible in illinois to charge a lower tax rate based on the destination within the state.I billed my customers using the tax basis of my headquarter store which had a lower rate that my other store in another town and county, of course this applied only to shipments and not in store sales . As I recall the Illinois tax form R2 Had no provision for charging tax rates based on destination except for out of state sales. But this is not helping me to develope my playing skills ,so I wont have any further post on this subject. I apologize to those who may be following this subject it is not very interesting but can save you hundreds of dollars on a major purchase.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2000-11-16 18:44
Ron D.--
Moving to Indiana won't help because you are required by Indiana law to pay sales tax on out-of-state mail-order purchases. It is part of the state income tax form. I originally thought that I would save this way when I purchase my instrument from IMS, but later remembered what the tax form had on it. And yes, I did list my instrument and pay the sales tax.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-16 19:22
Ron said:
"Having submitted illinois sales tax on two stores I owned I can tell you that it is not possible in illinois to charge a lower tax rate based on the destination within the state.I billed my customers using the tax basis of my headquarter store which had a lower rate that my other store in another town and county, of course this applied only to shipments and not in store sales . As I recall the Illinois tax form R2 Had no provision for charging tax rates based on destination except for out of state sales."
-------------------------------------
I am sorry, but that's not correct. I just received a call from the affiliated firm in IL confirming my statements herel. The situation you describe is akin to the many businesses I have observed which sell in many places in a given state, yet collect & remit sales tax only on behalf of *THEIR* municipality. In many states this is an ongoing issue, as smaller municipalities don't receive the sales taxes which are rightfully theirs.
The State of IL fully explains the issue at hand (regarding collection of sales tax based upon the rate in effect in the locality where the sales is *COMPLETED* or where Title to goods passes). The following webpage no doubt should prove conclusive on this subject:
http://www.revenue.state.il.us/taxinformation/sales/st19/st19gi15.html
If anybody has any further questions or is confused by this dialogue on sales tax, please feel free to email me. Good luck to all.
mw
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Author: Suzy
Date: 2000-11-17 03:54
Well, I am surprised at the overwhelming (and mostly positive) response from people. When talking with friends and colleagues in person, reactions have been much the same as mine. And for those of you who were offended by the word “sucks”--- sorry. That word is not a vulgarity and seemed appropriate at the time.
Now, details?
In a nutshell, I had a bad experience with Lisa about eight years ago while trying to buy an instrument. I was an undergrad and didn’t know much about the whole process. When I didn’t like the first one she sent me I returned it and told her I would find one elsewhere. She called several times insisting that she WOULD find me an instrument. I felt harassed and broke it off, was charged some fee, and wrote her off.
Well.
Recently I was looking for some Chadash barrels and was told she was the only one who had any in stock at the time. So I thought it was time to try her again. I had IMS send me 6 barrels and 6 mpc’s (the inventory IS their greatest strength…) for a total of $1025. I was a new customer and the sales rep never mentioned a two-week time limit. I returned all but one barrel (about a week after the time limit) and called them when my credit card statement came. I expected to be told of about a $900 pending credit. Instead, the credit was to be for $713. $300 for one barrel? Confused, (as I still didn’t know I had violated any time limit) I questioned the amount and was told that I had been charged a 20% late fee of the total amount, on top of the $3 restocking fee per item (which I knew about) which explained the amount. This was not acceptable to me. I asked to speak to Lisa, but no. She set one of her “helpers” to the task.
WHAT!?!?!??! Why wasn’t I told there was a time limit, etc, etc. Well, ma’am, it’s listed on the bottom of your invoice. OK, I missed the small print, but for a new customer making an order of that size the omission of any time period should fall on the shoulders of the company, NOT THE CUSTOMER!!!!! Basically, I was told that this policy that was never mentioned to me was more important to uphold than was my becoming a returning customer (one with students and colleagues she could also benefit from). At this point, still, Lisa would not return my voicemails, instead making one poor employee deal with a growingly frustrated me.
As to this day I have not gotten one phone call from her, personally, and so I feel compelled to spread the word. In what other business would a customer be treated this way? Not only are her prices consistently higher than other companies, she charges a restocking fee (which at least one other company I know of doesn’t) and her obvious lack of respect for a professional in the industry is sickening. Let us not even mention the 20% thing.
Never again……..
Suzy
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Author: Jim
Date: 2000-11-17 05:05
Suzy,
I'll argue that the word "sucks" is indeed a vulgarity and first referred to the sex act made famous by a White House Intern and her boss. While I admit using it, I try to avoid it in situations where it might be offensive to someone, and this board surely qualifies.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-17 13:01
Well, Jim is wrong since the vulgarity predates that incident by quite a long time. Let's stay away from politics, please,
In any case, Suzy has given us her explanation, and perhaps it is a good reminder to us to read all of our contracts carefully, lest we be surprised by a company exercising their rights under their contract.
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Author: Suzy
Date: 2000-11-17 15:17
Isn't the word "sucks" something an infant does upon first entering this world? How vulgar can that be? Jeez.---oh, wait, does that offend, too?
I think everyone involved here (myself included) should chill out and get back to the practice room.
Suzy
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Author: anonymous
Date: 2000-11-17 22:34
This Lisa person seems to a money leeching selllwoman. I know I will NOT ever invest any of my time looking at what she has to offer after reading what Suzy said. I feel unfortunate that Suzy had to suffer all that crap.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-17 23:22
Dear Anonymous,
Thats not fair. Suzy had a problem. However, I fail to see how you or anybody else here on Sneezy can be judge & jury, for either party. You don't know the facts or circumstances. You have heard one party's side of the story, right?
Mark Charette said it best when he said ... "read the contract." YES, always read the terms of the sale. Read the fine print. There is no excuse for a failure to do so. Any buyer should do that in any store, etc. I *ask* all the time. If I hear a policy that I can't live with, I pickup my marbles & goe elsewhere.
Lisa Argeris supports young artists (anybody who attended ClarinetFest can tell you this) through her company & is a credit to clarinetists. She has a successful business & she knows what makes Clarinetists "tick". Lisa is an accomplished clarinetist & stand's behind the products she sells.
Lets be nice, now ......
mw
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Author: Jim
Date: 2000-11-18 04:25
Mark,
I was refering to the act in general, not to the specific one performed in the White House and was looking for a "delicate" way to express it without using either clinical language or further vulgarities. Surely both the one word expression, and the act predate the Clinton administration.
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Author: MRidgeP
Date: 2000-11-18 04:55
I'll add to this by saying that in my experience with IMS, I was forced to by a specific RC Prestige without any choices of instruments. This was accomplished through a series of lies which I was told over the phone. I will not deal with IMS again for large purchases, or maybe any for that matter.
If you would like the details of my experience please Email me.
Matt Ridge
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Author: anonymous
Date: 2000-11-18 18:34
Dear mark
I was just stating what I was planning to do. How do you plan to tell me WHAT TO DO?! It is insulting to me for someone to tell me that is not FAIR. If one had to read the small print to avoid something so drastic, then I would say that the whole business is a bunch of bull crap. Can you tell me what the heck a stocking fee is? From what I understand, it's just an overcharge to pretty much CLEAN that mouthpiece or barrel. 3$s for a mouth piece? That's absurd. My point is, I do not want to hear someone like you to tell me whether or not to shop at IMS. Sorry to be blunt, but this is the only way I can express how i feel.
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Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-11-18 20:56
To anonymous---> IF you are willing to spend money without understanding the terms that goods are sold or purchased under, then you can expect to have more unplesant transactions.
In your own self interest you and only you should accept responsibilty for your actions, Don't blame others for your own lack of interest in preserving your own interest.
As for Lisa and IMS please note that it is a large company and Lisa the owner is not personally involved in each transaction. She has taken time to help people who require help and is very knowledgeable, but she has a large company to run.
When you take some time out and think a bit you will come to the discovery that every company that you will ever deal with has very specific policies and if you don't pay attention to these details we will expect to see a few more post from *ANONYMOUS OR SUZY" claiming to again be a victim of some "crooked business man or woman".
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-11-18 21:03
A sales representive at woodwind and brasswind politely told me all about the fees. A stocking fee covers the cost of sanitizing the mouthpiece, barrel, whatever. If you would like to buy a mouthpiece or a barrel that has dried spit in it, then be my guest, but I would rather just pay the extra money and get a clean mouthpiece.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-11-18 22:19
Restocking fees and late return fees are pretty much getting to be standard practices in a number of businesses (computers, electronic goods, cameras, to name a few). Why you may ask? Is it to "rip off" the customer? Nope. It is because too many customers have abused the sellers when such policies were not in place and/or not enforced. If you choose not to buy from companies with policies that they enforce, you will soon find yourself having no sources of the goods you seek to buy. Of course that's your own problem but it is pointless to blame the sellers. They have to do this for their own protection.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-18 22:51
As a new clarinetist I was surprised, but pleased to find that retailers sent out mouthpieces to try. There is the sanitary aspect, and I imagine the possibilty of scratches from teeth marks. I know of one large music store (doesn't sell clarinets), that has great products, prices, and customer service, but their policy is no returns or trials for anything that touches the mouth. They say it's for sanitary reasons.
When I was looking for a flute, my wife went with me to listen and to clean the mouthpieces with rubbing alcohol. When she wasn't with me I skipped the alcohol, because it made my lips raw. Now that I think about it, maybe there was a pleasant alternative to rubbing alcohol. Clarinetists are fortunate, because it makes sense to use your own mouthpiece when you try clarinets.
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Author: Rob
Date: 2000-11-19 01:16
I find all of the comments in this string both informative and amusing. I design and deliver training programs for customer service representatives at a large investment company (which does much of it's business by telephone an on-line) and prior to that I worked for many years in the mail order business. There are a few things that no one seems to consider in all of this:
If the representative who took the order by telephone confirmed that the caller was in possession of a catalog then it was most certainly not the responsibility of the company to relate the specifics of the return policy to the caller. If the caller had a catalog, they were already aware of the policy, whether they bothered to read it or not. The company does not print that information in the catalog for its own amusement, you know and the phone representative does not have ability to know what information you may or may not already have. Contrary to popular notions, most customer service reps are not equipped with crystal balls, tarot cards or psychic ability (unless, of course you are calling Madame Fatima...or Dionne Warwick).
It is also true that one of the efficiencies required in any telephone sales operation is the reduction of call time, making each telephone call as short, efficient and complete as possible. The easiest way to reduce call time is buy not wasting time relating information to the customer that they already have, in the form of a printed catalog (which is yet another expense for the company). Remember that even though that phone call is usually free for the caller, the company has to pay for it and it becomes an operating expense. While it may seem like a trivial thing, those longer phone calls add up very quickly and can eventually increase the cost of the products you buy.
That may seem like bad service to some people, but in order to keep giving people competitive pricing it is necessary to keep the phone proces as "lean" as possible. I would say that Suzy has learned an important lesson, and that id to ask a simple question at the end (or beginning) of any telephone order; "What is your return policy?". I usually make sure I know that about any retailer before I but anything, whether it's in person, by mail, fax, phone or internet. I may be more informed in this regard, having worked in mail order for many years, but some things are basic such as finding out what the consequences may be before you embark on any transaction or endeavor. My mother taught me that when I was about five.
What may surprise many people though, is that even when you make people sign a statement saying they have read and are aware of all pertinent material, rules, policies, etc.,(in the investment business where extreme amounts of disclosure are required by law) they still sometimes claim they have been treated badly and have no knowledge of those things. This is often the cry of investors to whom I have spoken who want a refund on their investments when they do not perform as hoped.
Finally, I quote the mantra of one of my favorite disount outlets, SYMS from the NY area;
"SYMS, where an educated consumer is our best customer"
I think an educated consumer is ALWAYS the best customer. The best way to have a successful purchase transaction is to educate yourself.
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Author: Crystal Obrien
Date: 2000-11-19 05:46
Seeing 42, now 43 responses to "IMS Sucks" tells me that there is definitely something less than satisfactory going on with the business. It is obvious that this Lisa character has caused many people, be they amateur or pro, frustration and disgust for the business she's running. Yes, everyone should read company policies and fine print but I find that her prices are high, she's very hard nosed and that she and her salespeople are not as forthright with their company policies as they should be over the phone. IMS needs to be made aware of the "Customer is always right" policy.
I too have a story about my dealings with Lisa A.. who tried to sell me a used Buffet clarinet years ago for more than it was worth. I knew the gentleman who was originally trying to sell it and wanted about $750 for it and he eventually worked a deal with Lisa who did nothing mechanical to the horn and jacked the price up to $1000. That's not right... I don't deal with people like that and understand where Suzy is coming from. You go girl!!!
-Crystal
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-11-19 12:50
Crystal Obrien wrote:
>
> Seeing 42, now 43 responses to "IMS Sucks" tells me that
> there is definitely something less than satisfactory going on
> with the business. It is obvious that this Lisa character has
> caused many people, be they amateur or pro, frustration and
> disgust for the business she's running.
Read the responses. Most of them *support* IMS and Lisa.
> Yes, everyone should
> read company policies and fine print but I find that her prices
> are high, she's very hard nosed and that she and her
> salespeople are not as forthright with their company policies
> as they should be over the phone. IMS needs to be made aware of
> the "Customer is always right" policy.
Again read the responses. You appear never to have been the proprietor of a business. Phone time costs. That's why the info is printed in the catalog and on the invoices. These days only long term, well known customers, not first timers, ever get "special service" of the type that you and Suzy seem to expect.
> I too have a story about my dealings with Lisa A.. who tried
> to sell me a used Buffet clarinet years ago for more than it
> was worth. I knew the gentleman who was originally trying to
> sell it and wanted about $750 for it and he eventually worked a
> deal with Lisa who did nothing mechanical to the horn and
> jacked the price up to $1000. That's not right... I don't deal
> with people like that and understand where Suzy is coming from.
> You go girl!!!
So you think businesses shouldn't make a profit? You think they should waste costly shelf space, sales peoples time, etc and take a loss? Check the price of used R-13s at your local retail stores. They will be much higher. Check the price of used R-13s at other mail order companies. They may vary slightly but will be comparable to IMS.
If you want cheap, go to a pawn shop. Then spend a few hundred more dollars on an overhaul.
If businesses followed the policies that you and Suzy seem to think are "fair," we wouldn't be able to buy anything no matter how much we would be willing to pay as the companies would no longer be in business.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-19 13:31
Dear "Anonymous",
Lets review what you originally said & what I responded to; You said:
"This Lisa person seems to a money leeching selllwoman. I know I will NOT ever invest any of my time looking at what she has to offer after reading what Suzy said. I feel unfortunate that Suzy had to suffer all that crap."
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How would you know this? Suzy had the experience, not you.. When an issue is tried in the Courts, both parties get a chance to defend themselves & offer their side of the story. I said, "Thats not fair. Suzy had a problem. However, I fail to see how you or anybody else here on Sneezy can be judge & jury, for either party. You don't know the facts or circumstances. You have heard one party's side of the story, right?". I stand by my comment.
Now, "Anonymous", lets cover the other "STUFF" you wrote:
"I was just stating what I was planning to do. How do you plan to tell me WHAT TO DO?"
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The record is straight here. YOU can do whatever you like. However, no one can draw a conclusion from what Suzy said. Period. Its only her side of the story. Further, she admits she ignored the fine print.
"! It is insulting to me for someone to tell me that is not FAIR."
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Then grow up & don't post here anymore. You are Anonymous, right?. If you make a statement here, you have to be prepared to listen to an opposing or differing viewpoint.
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"If one had to read the small print to avoid something so drastic, then I would say that the whole business is a bunch of bull crap".
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Anonymous, with an attitude like that, you are going to encounter lots of problems in life.
"Can you tell me what the heck a stocking fee is?"
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It is a handling fee for the retof merchandise to a reatiler's invnetory. When they sell an item they have to order more. If they order more, they may have too many on hand. The restock fee can be used to allay differing "restock" costs incurred. If you doin't want to pay a restocking fee you need to do the following. READ THE FINE PRINT & DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THAT RETAILER. I wrote that in all caps so you would read it, ok?
"From what I understand, it's just an overcharge to pretty much CLEAN that mouthpiece or barrel. 3$s for a mouth piece? That's absurd."
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Absurd? When are you coming to my house to do the dishes for free? Further, the seller of the mouthpiece has to clean & disinfect the mouthpiece before returning to stock, who will pay the seller's employee to do that?
"My point is, I do not want to hear someone like you to tell me whether or not to shop at IMS."
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You didn't read what I wrote. I **NEVER** told you to shop at IMS. Go back & re-read. I said it wasn't fair to draw a conclusion on the comments of one party to a tarnsaction. AND, its not fair, whether you like it or not!
"Sorry to be blunt, but this is the only way I can express how i feel."
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Oh, you can be blunt. No problem. My skin's tough. Just remember whatever you dish out, you need to take as well! : - )
mw
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-19 13:36
Matt Ridge said :
".... I was forced to by a specific RC Prestige without any choices of instruments."
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That a heckuva an accusation. They forced you to buy a clarinet? We'll have to hear how they forced you to buy it !
mw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-19 15:23
This thread has been pretty funny so far. I've read (paraphrased):
"I didn't read the contract. That's not my fault and the store should break the rules for me". and
"Someone forced me to buy something" along with a few other interesting tidbits.
The agreement with IMS is about the same as with all the mail order companies. For those places with 10s if not 100s of thousands of sales/year, there are going to be some small percentage of problems. Read back on the problems of the WW & BW when they moved stores.
Mark-ups, restocking fees, time limits on trials, paying for marked-up mechandise, and all that are a fact of life. If you can't abide by a store's policy or decide to ignore the written contracts then it behooves you not to shop there. Oral contracts (at least in the US) are worth barely more than the paper they're not written on.
I personally have never had any trouble getting in direct contact with Lisa (she publishes her extension in the catalog) and have found her and her company every bit as reasonable as any other company.
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Author: Suzy
Date: 2000-11-19 17:43
The main point of the dissatisfaction is the lack of honesty in the situation. Of course a business is supposed to make money (duh.) but it does not have to be through taking advantage of the customer. (Not fully explaining a policy when there is no record of that person ever shopping there before, knowing that your customer is "just a student", etc.) The most respected and successful businesses I know deal with their customers in an honest and forthcoming manner, and if the customer is dissatisfied with something, the company at least attempts to solve it responsibly. The business/customer relationship is not one of equal ground. When a business responds to customer dissatisfaction by pointing a finger at the customer, THAT is bad business. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-11-19 17:49
RE: "forced me to buy"....Was there not a catch phrase several years ago, & later a pop song--"The Devil Made Me Do It." Beware of demonic clarinet's guys & gals.
BobA
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Author: anonymous
Date: 2000-11-19 18:01
Dear Mark,
That restocking fee should be like 10 cents. I'm SURE lisa doesnt use up the whole bottle to cleanup one mouthpiece.
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Author: Suzy
Date: 2000-11-19 18:11
And one last comment,
My intent here was simply to share an experience with you so that you might be spared the same plight. From my perspective Lisa'a business is a little shady. I don't trust her and I wanted to spread the word. I have nothing invested in what anyone here thinks of me, so I'm not trying to protect my "image" or whatever. It seems as though this has become personal, complete with accusations and judgements, and that was not the intent.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-11-19 18:35
Suzy, please stop writing me nasty emails to me. I won't reply to you. There was never anything personal in my posts here. I think you need to follow your own advice & "chill". mw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-19 20:31
I'll guess you've never run a business, at least a successful one. Let's see, real quick:
1) Open the mail, check contents for breakage, scratches, etc.: 3 minutes.
2) Sanitize: 3 minutes
3) Place back in box, update inventory, place on rack: 5 minutes
11 minutes. Now, go pay someone a dime to do it. See what kind of response you get.
That $3 restocking fee barely covers costs.
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Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-11-19 21:28
Suzy no more e mail, if you have anything more to say post it on the bulletin board
And thanks for correcting my spelling, I dont know what I would have done without you,
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Author: anonymous
Date: 2000-11-20 00:46
guys stop picking on suzy. Don't u know how to act like a gentleman? You should be ashamed of yourselves
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2000-11-20 01:02
OK boys & girls. This thread is now officially off-limits. We've heard both sides and discussed it to death. You all can make up your own minds on whether or not to shop at IMS or any other mail-order place.
Further posting in this thread will be considered a serious breach of BBoard etiquette
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Author: Hot Joe
Date: 2000-11-22 06:20
WHo is tthis mark weinstein guy? He sounds so picky and stubborn
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The Clarinet Pages
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