 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-08-16 21:06
Muncy has just got in some of these and are selling them on their site. 50 bucks each. They say they are in fact original Kaspar Ligatures.
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-08-16 23:28
I ordered one myself. Interested to know, did you get one brass and one silver, or two of the same kind David?
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-08-16 23:53
I just ordered two in silver also. Considering they go for hundreds on that auction site, this is a pretty good deal.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-08-17 01:28
Iceland,
I believe the kaspar ligs are heavier\more substantial than the bay ligatures.
-Nathan
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-08-17 02:34
I believe it was an Eb ligature with no screws that went for that much. The Bb ones I've seen in the last few years have gone for more than that, from what I remember.
Looking forward to trying them out!
-Nathan
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Author: susieray
Date: 2009-08-17 04:02
A Bb without screws sold for $177.00 a few weeks ago. I saw one a year or two ago that went for $280!
Sue
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-17 06:05
susieray wrote:
> A Bb without screws sold for $177.00 a few weeks ago. I saw one
> a year or two ago that went for $280!
Good grief! And we dare mocking violin players with their expensive bows!
--
Ben
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-08-17 13:15
They are indeed heavier than Bay ligs. But the Kaspar ligs are more maleable than the new Bonades.
Note...Kaspar ligatures do not have the Bonade style rails over the reed.
They are a nice old fashioned maleable flat metal inverted ligature. No more, no less.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-08-17 13:18)
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-17 14:27
I just ordered a nickel-silver model from Muncy for my gas collection. They were reportably obtained from Robert Scott and I have sent him an email to clarify if they are in fact "original"--as Muncy has claimed--or recent models made in his shoppe. I'll let this thread know if I hear back from Robert.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-17 14:48
This email just received from Robert Scott: "They are original stampings put together by me in my shop. I make the nuts and sil solder them etc."
Therefore, it seems that Muncy's ad claiming these Kaspar ligatures--obtained from craftsman Robert Scott--to be "originals" is pretty much the truth. Can't wait for mine to arrive in the mail.......
Post Edited (2009-08-17 16:57)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-08-17 15:56
Close enough that it will be hard to tell the difference. I mentioned the recent sale, not to contradict the comment about the prices these ligs had been bringing on eBay (I'd seen them, too) but rather to point out one of the risks of buying "collectibles" at prices that far exceed their intrinsic value. Today's rarity can become tomorrow's commonplace if someone finds and releases a stash. I remember, many (many) years ago, finding a silver dollar for about $2.50 at a dealer's booth at a coin show. I bought it as a curiosity because it had been minted in New Orleans and I'd never seen a coin from that mint before. It was in new mint condition despite being 50 or 60 years old. Imagine my surprise when I found that coin listed at over $100 (big money in those days, particularly to a kid) in a catalog that was about a year old. I asked the neighbor who had taken me to the show about it. He laughed and told me that yes, the coin had been thought to be a rarity. Then someone at the U.S. mint found a couple bags of them and released them into circulation. I can imagine how people who had paid $100 for one right before the flood must have felt.
It's hard to tell whether the one recently sold on eBay (by a Kaspar family member who has been slowly liquidating stock) brought the lower price because it was sans screws or because the market has become aware of the Muncy stock. It will be interesting to see if anyone tries to take advantage of the potential arbitrage opportunity by offering the new ones on eBay. If eBay buyers in general aren't aware of the Muncy stock there may be an opportunity for profit. And eBay's policy of making bidders anonymous makes it very difficult to spill the beans if bidding in an auction gets out of hand.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-08-17 16:43
Jack Kissing wrote:
"Close enough that it will be hard to tell the difference."
It still would be nice if Muncy would give us the complete info. on them, though. Not that they lied, they just omitted part of the info. to make the sale, which seems (although it's what every retailer seems to do) unfair.
Guess that's life.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-08-17 18:42
I would suggest contacting Phil or Pam Muncy with any questions. They are always great to deal with and very honest. I am sure that if anyone had problems that they would be easily resolved to the buyer's satisfaction.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-17 19:23
Muncy Winds is disclosing that they are original Kaspar ligatures obtained from the "maker of Scott barrels". That would be Robert Scott, who also makes other fine clarinet products. See my above posting regarding an email I received this morning from Robert. There is absolutely no deception here by Muncy that I can discover. They are original "stampings" for which Robert has made "nuts" which he silver soders to (presumbably) the Kaspar band. Hope this info helps everyone a bit..........
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-08-18 00:19
I see now that I was confused by what the email from Robert Scott actually meant. I (not being familiar with almost any technical terms) was under the incorrect impression that what Scott has done with the ligatures plays a bigger role in their outcome than it actually does. I am very sorry William for misinterpreting the information you have given us.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2009-08-18 16:44
A couple of questions:
Are these ligatures really spectacular or is the lure more that they are no longer being made?
What is the difference between a Bay ligature (without the rubber material) and the Kaspar?
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2009-08-18 19:50
I have enjoyed playing and performing professionally on Frank L. Kaspar ligatures for many years. These latest ligatures are from Frank's original plates, obtained by Robert Scott recently. Mr. Scot has used the original metal plates, put screws on them and has added his name on the metal also. These ligatures are very very good, comparable to the originals in many ways. However, comparing the new Scott Kaspar ligatures to the older original ones, some of them made with slightly heaver german silver, I still prefer the original ones. Many of the original Frank L. Kaspar ligatures had the screws on the left instead of the right, and many had numbers on them, indicating size. The Charles Bay ligatures are copies of the original Kaspar ligature, with lighter metal. Frank Kaspar of Cicero never made any ligatures.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-19 15:33
Chet reported, "Mr. Scot has used the original metal plates, put screws on them and has added his name on the metal also."
Then why arn't they being advertised by Muncy as "Scott-Kaspar" ligatures, rather than "original" Kaspar ligs? Motivated by $$ signs....(?)
BTW, I ordered one and I'm anxiously awaiting it's arrival. I still think Muncy Winds is one of the best music stores around and do not mean to imply otherwise.....just wondering, 'why', that's all.
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2009-08-19 18:03
Actually, Robert Scott was selling these Kaspar-Scott ligatures for 50.00 each. Muncy is being very fair with the pricing. These ligatures are absolutely first rate.
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Author: Clari
Date: 2009-08-19 19:43
Same here. Going to call them to cancel my order. There is no collection value if this is the case.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-19 22:13
Grrrr.... just received an email telling me that "due to an overwhelming response", my order will be delayed for at least two weeks--thanks (probably) to all of you that beat me to the order button. Good thing I've already got a gazillion ligatures to use while I wait..........lol.
Post Edited (2009-08-19 22:31)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-08-19 22:33
Kaspar Clarinet Ligature ORIGINAL . Muncy Winds has obtained original Kaspar ligatures from the maker of SCOTT barrels. They have the word "superb" stamped on the ligature as well. These ligatures are no longer made and available for a limited time. Available in brass and nickel silver
-----------------------------------------------------
Uh, is that what I got, or is that B.S. ?
I expected to get something that was quite old in age as they have been dead for quite a while.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-20 14:27
DB, that's what I though as well, that they "original" Kaspar stampings would be old left overs that somehow Robert S found and completed by silver-sodering his own nuts to them. Now, it seems they are simply more reproductions like so much other "Kaspar" stuff on the market......
"BS"??--could be.
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2009-08-20 18:53
To clarify: Robert Scott did assemble absolutey original german metal ligature plates, originally made for Frank L. Kaspar. All he did was add metal screw holders and screws. The original metal plates do say "Superb" on them and the metal is original, not a copy. Mr. Scott just added his name on the original metal to indicate that he assembled the ligatures.
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Author: Jonathan U
Date: 2009-08-20 23:29
"Chetclarinet: To clarify: Robert Scott did assemble absolutey original german metal ligature plates, originally made for Frank L. Kaspar. All he did was add metal screw holders and screws. The original metal plates do say "Superb" on them and the metal is original, not a copy. Mr. Scott just added his name on the original metal to indicate that he assembled the ligatures."
---
Actually, having just received mine today, I can vouch (in my case, at least) that the ligatures do not have any other stampings other than "Superb" on the metal. So Chetclarinet is right on all counts except for the name "Scott" on the ligature.
The screws/holders do seem to be of a different metal than the ligature band - the holders appear to be either gold or brass and the screws are some other kind of dull silver metal. Not being an expert, I can't say for sure, but perhaps someone else out there (Does Mr. Scott frequent these boards?) could enlighten us.
Jonathan
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Author: Clari
Date: 2009-08-20 23:48
Didn't Brad Behn or someone post last month about the same ligature he made through Robert Scott?
Is this the same ligature that Brad mentioned which has a brass color holder???
Technically, not 100% of the ligature is original (screw holder and screws) and I don't think it is right to market it as "Original".
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-21 00:09
I ordered two. Muncy wrote back saying that there has been high demand and they're temporarily out of the nickel finish ones, but that Scott is finishing up more. Also, they said that the brass version listed on the site is for clarinet, not soprano sax, so I'm getting one of each.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-08-21 03:33
Does anyone know the extent to which Frank L. Kaspar was actually involved with the manufacture of his ligatures? Did he do the work Robert Scott is doing now or did he merely design the ligatures and then farm out their actual manufacture to others (the way Tom Ridenour does with his clarinets except probably not to China)? If he did farm out the work, who soldered on the nuts and where did the screws come from? Given Mr. Scott's expertise, the ligatures Muncy is offering might be better than the "originals" -- at least the ones using the same blanks. They might even be just as collectible in the long run -- if your idea of collectibles runs to clarinet accessories.
Best regards,
jnk
Post edited by Ghostbusters
Post Edited (2009-08-22 16:56)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-08-29 00:13
Anyone have a report on how these ligatures are? I haven't received mine yet, but some of you have had yours for a week or so by now.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-30 17:03
Last Thursday afternoon, I received my brass model "Scotty" Kaspar and took the chance to play it that evening during our Capitol City Band concert. As for appearances, the ligature seems well made with with the screws mounted to the right and only the word "Superb" inscribed on it, just like the authentic Kaspar originals. It looked a bit shorter than the Bay ligature used by our third clarinetist and fit my Chicago Kaspar mouthpiece "like a glove". Compared to the Vandy Optimum I usually use, this new Kaspar played with a slightly more subdued sound and required a little more effort for me to project and balance as usual, even though we all are miked individually. In playing the new Kaspar vs the Optimum the next day, I noticed the same playing results: both ligatures articulated well, however, the Optimum played more freely and with a slightly brighter sound (parallel rail insert) than the Kaspar, even after correcting a minor flaw in the shape of the upper rail (which I did not notice the night before). While I am awaiting a nicel-silver Kaspar on back order from Muncy, I am going to give this brass Kaspar more playing time, but my feelings at the moment are that I will ultimately return to the Optimum Bonade-like ligature that I am more accustomed to.
FWIW, my current set-up of choice: Buffet R13's (from the 60's), Chicago Kaspar #14, Forestone #4's. Ligature TBA.............lol
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-31 17:09
My nickel-silver "Kaspar" lig just arrived in the mail, so my order from Muncy is now complete--very good service, I might add. Like the brass model, this lig did arrive in slightly misshapen condition, but that will be easily corrected with my needlenose plier. Scotty's workmanship is otherwise emaculate and these ligs are probably as close to FLK's originals as most of us are ever going to get. Just happy to report that I've got mine..........:>)
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Author: Jonathan U
Date: 2009-09-04 21:34
I have received mine and been playing/practicing on it for a few weeks now, including performing on it for a mock audition here at school this past week. As of yet I have not had the opportunity to try it in rehearsal, chamber or larger ensemble (Wind ensemble/orchestra). When I do, I will edit this post.
(FYI: My setup is Buffet R13s with Vandoren regular #4s, an M30 series 13 mouthpiece, and the silver Kaspar ligature from Muncy)
Soundwise, I find it similar but a little denser than the Vandoren Optimum I was using previously (plate #3, with the four dots). Articulation is much cleaner and easier - I especially feel the articulation is improved in the altissimo. As a metal ligature, it does lend a certain ping to the sound, but I find that it balances out quite nicely with the dark roundness of the M30.
I won't mention any more about sound - your reed/mouthpiece combination will likely have a greater effect on your sound than your ligature will (not to say that the ligature doesn't affect your sound, but somewhat less so in my experience). As I said, articulation is improved with the Kaspar, and I feel that the control it gives me is somewhat greater as well. If it works for you, great, but remember - you won't know whether the shoe fits you unless you try it on yourself.
- Jonathan
- JU
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-09-04 22:51
I just received my ligatures today and they are fantastic. They are very free and ringing with nice flexibility.
The main difference between these kaspar ligatures and my GP Bonade is that they are a little bit more free and al ittle bit more flexible.
We'll see if it stays my primary ligature...
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Author: atasic
Date: 2009-09-05 14:42
I also want to buy few of them but they dont ship to Serbia either...to bad, clarinet market in Serbia is huge and I know lot of poeple who wanted to order from them not only ligatures...
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-09-06 17:06
They only ship to USA,Canada and Mexico. I wonder what reason they would give us why this is so.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-09-11 14:53
I had my first chance to test play my new silver model "Robert Scott" Kaspar ligature against my Vandy Optimum in Muni Band last eve and the results were much different than I noticed with the brass model earlier this summer. Playing a Forestone #4 on my Chicago Kaspar mouthpiece and 1960's R13, I started the rehearsal with the silver model first noticeing how focused the sound at pp levels was and how easy it was to project at ff when neccessary (no mikes). About half-way through, I switched to my old Vandy and noticed more resonance, but curiously, a lack of focus and "presence" making projection and balance more difficult for me. The sound produced with the silver Kaspar lig blended better with the ensemble and afterwards, I received a compliment on "how good" I sounded. The results I reported a couple of weeks earlier with the brass model lig in our Capitol City Band may have been tainted somehow because of the mike and presence of a moniter speaker right in front of my clarinet. In the accousitical setting of Municipal Band, last evening, the real playing characteristics of the "Scotty" Kaspar ligature may have been more true. I really don't think that brass vs silver had anything to do with it--more the miked amplification playing tricks with my ear. Bottom line, I think I prefer the Kaspar ligature over the Optimum (parallel rails). However, only time will tell.............can't wait to try it out when orchestral rehearsals begin next month.
BTW, any users of this new Kaspar lig should avoid the temptation to over-tighten the screws. Don't crank them down until no further turn is possible--rather, just snug them up until you feel some resistance. That will prevent "killing" the reed and preserve the threading of the screws while mantaining the shape and playing integrity of the ligature.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-09-11 16:02
William -
I get the best results with a metal ligature when I tighten it up snug -- just to the point where turning resistance on the screws increases sharply -- and then back off 1/4 turn. This sets the reed firmly against the table and then frees it up.
YRMV.
Ken Shaw
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2009-09-11 16:20
-- "They only ship to USA,Canada and Mexico. I wonder what reason they would give us why this is so." --
Probably because with the Euro so strong, they're worried you might buy Muncys itself! ;-)
Steve
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-09-11 18:09
Well that don't work because I'm from Iceland and we are not in EBU or have the Euro and our krona is worthless.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-09-11 20:35
Yes, Ken, that is the essence of what I was trying to say. Thanks......
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Author: Jonathan U
Date: 2009-10-04 13:50
Hi, all,
To get back to the original subject of the Kaspar ligs that Muncy is selling - I've had ample time to try mine and compare it to other options, so I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how it feels/plays. I've been trying the nickel-silver Kaspar with my M30 series 13 mouthpiece, using Vandoren Traditional #4s and V12 #4.5s, and I've had a chance to compare it to a Bonade inverted (nickel), Vandoren Optimum, and (briefly) a regular non-inverted Bonade.
First off, let me say, as I think I said before, the Kaspar lig yields wonderful response, especially in the lower and clarion registers. It frees up articulation as well. However, I've been finding that this lends itself toward a slightly smaller sound than other ligatures I've tried - while the Kaspar does center the tone very well (I haven't had any problems with the core of the sound being absent or fuzzy) it doesn't leave as much of a colorful surrounding to it. Imagine the difference between a marble (the core of your tone) in the center of a personal/medium sized pizza, versus a marble in the center of a family sized one. The core is still there, but you have a bigger, more colorful wrapping around it.
This was especially a griping point for me in the altissimo - while the clarion and lower registers don't generally suffer from thinness on most clarinets, I found that with the Kaspar, the altissimo was too thin/uncovered compared to the Bonade - I just couldn't get the sweet, vocal, round sound that I want out of my altissimo. It kept coming out too thin or bright.
Anyway, just my two cents - My teacher suggested that the Kaspar might sound darker at a distance or in a large hall, since it does focus the sound more (perhaps to much more) than some other ligatures. We both agreed, though, that it just didn't have the liquidity or covering in the upper registers that we wanted in our sounds. In any case, it's always nice to have options!
- JU
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