 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Erika
Date: 2000-11-15 20:10
I'm a high school clarinet player and I play tenor sax in jazz band. My teacher said it would really mess up my embouchure if I played sax a lot. He really did not want me to play in marching band on tenor, because he said for sure that would mess my mouth up. Playing clarinet in marching band is no fun because no one can hear you. I had no other choice because in order to play in any other music group at school you have to participate in marching band. He eventually wants me to quit sax all together. I had a lot of feedback from my band directors and other music teachers, most saying that I should not listen to my teacher. But I did what my teacher wanted anyway. Marching band was fun, and I want to do it next year but I don't want to play clarinet, and I deffinatly don't want to mess up my mouth. What do you other clarinetist think about my teacher's thoughts about clarinet and sax messing up my embouchure? Right now I do want to play classical clarinet as a career after high school, but I'm only a Freshman. I may change my mind. Please tell me what you think!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Francesca
Date: 2000-11-15 22:22
I have to agree with your band director. Playing tenor sax for marching band probably will mess up your embouchure. My instructor had planned on being a professional oboe player, but after a year of marching the bari sax, he could hardly play the oboe anymore. Even over 10 years later, he still hasn't ever gotten his embouchure back.
If you want to be heard and not ruin your embouchure, consider marching percussion. I played bass drum for two years and it was a blast. Everyone defintely hears you, and it can be a real bonding expierence.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-11-15 22:25
First of all, playing clarinet in marching band can be really fun. My band had 7 clarinets, and with good concert band technique, we were one of the only sections you could hear, and of those, we were the only ones that were in tune. So just because you play clarinet doesn't mean no one will hear you.
Second, playing saxophone won't hurt you're embouchure. I find it really helps mine, but I have a weird jaw, so I don't really count. I have a friend (who as far as I know) has a normal jaw, and he's an excellent sax player, and not bad at clarinet. His only problem is his embouchure, but that's because he's more dedicated to sax than he is clarinet, and you're the opposite.
By the way, all of the clarinets that were in the upper ensemble last year were asked if we'd like to learn sax for jazz band, my band director wouldn't take that risk with us. That doesn't mean that you're band director is wrong, if my band director told me to quit sax because it might mess up my embouchure, I would be honored at the concern, but I would go behind his back and do my own research.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-15 23:07
I am wondering if Erika is referring to her clarinet, or the clarinet section not being heard? Is a single clarinet supposed to be heard in a band or orchestral setting, when not playing a solo? Although clarinets may be playing different parts, I don't think someone in the audience could choose to hear one player - maybe I'm wrong.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-11-15 23:22
Erika, go for the "fun" alone. I was able (in my ancient past) to make two trips to a "World Fair" just because I played clarinet in a marching band. I was not very good--am still not after picking it back up again--but I got a chance I never ever would have had. Take! Enjoy!
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nick Conner
Date: 2000-11-16 01:56
Hey, I'm hoping to be a clarinet music major in college, and I play a few instruments (clarinet, flute, tenor/alto/soprano sax, SOME oboe). The only negative feedback for me is immediately playing clarinet after another instruments (try playing flute, alto, and clarinet in the pit for Damn Yankees, it's interesting since I learned alto and flute JUST for it). My private teacher doesn't mind me playing sax, although she has a problem with oboe. I think if you stay dedicated to practicing clarinet, then it shouldn't be a problem. I practice clarinet a lot more than any other instrument, so I don't think they have affected my embouchure. In fact, sax helped a little bit at first. I hope I helped.
-Nick Conner
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-16 02:05
I don't play sax, so maybe I shouldn't be here, but I bet you'll enjoy music more, and be more inspired, if you explore more instruments, types of music, and ideas. Artie Shaw started with sax, and discoved an affinity for clarinet when he was forced to double on it. Play sax. Have fun!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dave
Date: 2000-11-16 04:35
Point 1:
Alright people I hope we all know by now that playing two differnet instrument will not mess up your embouchure. To the person who posted a remark about a player who doubles on bari and oboe, look at Doc Kupka from Tower Of Power, a phenomenal player of both instruments, beautiful sound. So that picks that off. Tenor sax and clarinet is probably the most common double with the addition of a flute or oboe part. Lawerence Welk's musicians ALL doubled from clarinets to flutes to saxes, again, they were some amazing players. One of my private lesson teacher doubles on alto sax and clarinet and so does one of them on sop and clarinet. Lester Young played clarinet for a while and still played sax. It is not a matter at ALL of how one woodwind instrument will decrease the playability of another. It takes some getting used to, but most you catch on very quickly! Although sax embouchure is different, playing sax will not destroy your clarinet embouchure. I know this cause I, too, am a doubler of tenor sax, clarinet, and often (as Nick did ) some random woodwind. I play musical pits, classical, jazz, and some contemporary on both, clarinet and sax(es), so really it does not affect your playing, as long as you keep practicing both! Probably the hardest double for me would have to be the Sax (particularly Bari) to Flute. It's a totally different world of embouchure, like you're in la la land.
Point 2:
You better have LUNGS if you want to be heard. When I was playing sax in marching band it was near impossible to hear us (the sax section) unless brass would come down more. Using a stock mouthpiece will get you no where near the results you want. It wasn't until me junior year when I got a modified Otto Link Super Tonemaster that my presence of sound was known on the field. If you don't watch the band front side you really don't know what you're hearing to be honest though (I knew I could be heard as I was often told to come down). You might hear the saxes when you're on the field, but try listening for them in the stands, it's usually a no go situation. But learn sax, you will be able to do more things with both instruments as part of your arsenal!
Sorry for so long a post
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Willie
Date: 2000-11-16 04:38
The brass does seem to drown out the woodwinds on the marching field. However at the 4-a,5-a marching contest held last month, two schools had big amps along the side line along with marimbas, tympani, etc. They had the clarinets and flutes rigged with remote mikes and it sounded GREAT.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jim
Date: 2000-11-16 04:39
One of the finest pros in this area (South Jersey) plays oboe, clarinet, and all 4 saxes. I have seen him double on oboe and barri sax in the same concert as those instruments were not covered. If doing this has damaged his embouchure, I wish I had done the same! His intonation is superb on all of those instruments.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pam
Date: 2000-11-16 20:11
My two cents, for what it's worth. I don't play sax or flute yet, but my private teacher likes his more serious students to learn all the woodwinds they are interested in. BUT he always teaches the clarinet first as it is usually the hardest to learn, then sax, then flute, etc. I think as long as you still consistently practice the clarinet as well as whatever other instruments you play you should not have too many problems with your embouchure.
Just another side note -- when I was in school I played clarinet, bass clarinet and trombone of all things. I don't recall having any problems switching between instruments. (My high school teacher encouraged woodwinds to switch to lower brass for marching. I remember 2 other girls who switched from saxes to trombone and baritone.) I played clarinet and bass clarinet for concert band and the bone for marching and jazz/stage band so there wasn't a time when we weren't switching instruments. No problems.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Crazi Clari
Date: 2000-11-16 20:44
I felt the same way abou the clarinet for marching band- so guess what; after my freshmen year i talked to the drum instructor and learned how to play bass drum. It was so much fun (and not to mention loud too =) and now i get to participate in a bunch of cool stuff like percussion ensemble and things like that besides marching band- and i heard it's easy for a clarinet/flute player to switch over because they're so used to playing runs and fast stuff with their fingers that rolls are easy to do and all that. This definitly won't mess up your embouchre (sp?) and it helps alot with rhythms and all. It's just a suggestion~ it might not be your thing, just another option to consider- good luck =)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Laira
Date: 2000-11-16 21:30
HEY...how's it goin? im a clarinet player in marching band also...im a Freshman too....i play oboe as my other instrument(talk about a lot different)...I don't think it would really mess ur mouth up..but i don't really know either...i love playing the clarinet...even thought u can't hear us throughout the show it's still fun to march it...this is my second year marching the clarinet and i love it...i know the crowd can't hear us, but the judges definitely can...they commented on some of our work in the Ballot of our show...so, that's pretty cool...i hope u can e-mail me soon. oh and if u are wondering my e-mail has 4 zeros cuz i know it can be confusing....so talk to me if u can...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: T.Coleman
Date: 2000-11-16 22:08
I too began to double on tenor sax, beginning as a junior in high school after three years of private lessons on clarinet. I took up tenor at the suggestion of my clarinet teacher, Ronald Naroff, who doubled on sax and clarinet when he played for the Navy Band in the 1950s.
There might be something to your teacher's concerns that relate to you specfically.
I had never thought of doubling on sax and when my teacher suggested it, I asked him why he was bringing it up at that time.
He told me that he always waited until his students' clarinet embouchures had "stabilized" before suggesting a move to a second wind instrument. It made sense to me at the time. He had worked with me to get my clarinet embouchure and tone to a point where we were both very happy with it, as you know, a process that takes years. Naturally, we never stopped working to refine it. But when I took up the sax, I could literally feel with my mouth that he was right. I had gotten to the point where I understood what I was doing with my mouth, air, etc. to get my clarinet sound to be what it was. If I had taken sax up earlier I think the sax might have confused me. But by that time it presented no problem.
So it may be that your teacher considers your present clarinet embouchure a moving target and doesn't want anything getting in the way of its development at this time. He might have his reasons for not explaining it to you that way, that part isn't clear to me. Maybe he wants you to put as much time into the clarinet as possible and figures that every minute spent on sax is one that you would otherwise spend on clarinet.
But as earlier posters here have stated and is obvious anyway, probably three quarters or more of clarinet players double on another instrument and for a lot of them its the like-intonated Bb tenor sax. Niether embouchure should have any effect on the other.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gene Wie
Date: 2000-11-17 13:42
Playing another instrument will NOT ruin your embochure. Unless you happen to be a true beginner without any concept of how to fit your mouth around your instrument (which you are not), there is absolutely no reason to believe the FUD that people spread about "damage" to your embochure that being a multiple-wind instrument musician can do.
Rather, playing more than one instrument gives a person lessons in musicality that one never learns by focusing on just one instrument. Even the very best players have in their vast spectrum of skills the ability to make music on other instruments! The clarinet and tenor sax recordings of Eddie Daniels come to mind...
I personally play violin, clarinet, saxophone, and french horn, and more than anything understanding the issues that each individual instrumentalist has to deal with when playing in an orchestra or wind ensemble aids in my understanding of how to fit in to a particular group on a particular instrument. As a composer, it also makes it possible for me to write passages that show off the best ranges of the instruments in question.
Play everything you can. It makes you that much more knowledgeable and valuable in the future. Nothing is more wonderful than being able to understand why clarinets squeak, why horn players never seem to be able to hit that one pitch correctly, etc...=)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-11-20 00:21
No, playing sax will not do any permanent damage to your embouchure. At first, switching back and forth from instrument to instrument may be a little challenging, but you will get used to it. The biggest problem of playing sax is to set the clarinet down and not play it during that time period. Your embouchure will be a little rusty, and will come back with practice. If you practice both instruments instead of focusing only on one, you won't have to worry about this. Changing of embouchure to each instrument is something that requires some getting used to. In the long run, the more instruments you learn to play, the more flexible your embouchure will become, and adding an additional single reed instrument won't be as hard. Remember that the first instrument you double on will be the hardest. It all gets easier after that. Just don't ignore your clarinet playing while you play sax, and you will be fine. Done properly, doubling on additional instruments will make you better as a musician and a clarinetist. Go for saxophone, it may even be a good opportunity to get in line for some clarinet jazz. -- Nate Zeien
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Daniel
Date: 2000-11-20 03:35
Playing ANY instrument in marching band will mess up any embouchure for any other instrument that you play. That's why i persuaded my band director to let me play in the pit percussion group for marching band.
As for playing other instruments not including marching band. Go ahead... it'll only affect your clarinet embouchure if you don't continue practicing clarinet. I've been playing flute and sax in addition for a few years now and if anything, my clarinet playing has *improved*. In fact, tomorrow (Nov.20th) i'm doing a recital playing concertos on each instrument.
The only instrument that is severly affected embouchure-wise is flute if you play clarinet right before. Which is why i'm starting the recital on flute so i'm well warmed up and my embouchure isn't beat up.
However in show playing i don't have a choice, so you have to warm up the flute well before the show and ujst make sure the other horns have reeds that work and don't play them much until it's time to start. I'm doing a show right now that calls for Piccolo, Flute, Alto Flute, Bb/A Clarinets, Soprano Sax and Alto sax. So i get to the theatre about an hour early, put all my horns together, stick reeds on the Clarinets and saxes, blow a few notes to make sure the reeds will play and then spend the remaining 35-45 minutes warming up flute until i have to leave the stage (it's a revue instead using a small combo instead of a full length musical and orchestra).
The one caution i have for just sax and clarinet, is not to use a metal mouthpiece on sax unless you have plenty of time to warm up the clarinet before you have to play serious classical. Earlier this week i rehearsed my sax concerto for an hour, then rehearsed a solo i'm playing with my band for an hour, rehearsed my sax quartet for an hour, then played half an hour on a metal mouthpiece for jazz band and then played a piece on a combined recital and took me a few minutes into the piece to get my embouchure back to normal after the Berg mouthpiece on my tenor in jazz band.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dave
Date: 2000-11-20 04:14
Although I still don't see how playing another instrument in marching band could hurt your chops you do bring up some very good points. I really like your style of warming up with multiple instruments. It's a very good exercise to do this at home also. By doing this at home you get better acquainted to switching. Once you get really good, try playing instruments totally opposite of each other, say bari sax and piccolo, with each taking up a greater ammount of time then switching. do this with all instruments and surely you will get these skills down pat.
I play all metal or or duck billed pieces on tenor and this keeps feeling more alike among my mouthpieces. Sorry though man, if you really want to feel at home from bari to sop clarinet, the slimmest piece would be metal.
Flute playing is just a whole different beast. I think this is the hardest double and deserves the most work, on switching, embouchure, and techhnique.
I still can't figure why you say, playing an instrument in marching band will destroy your chops though? I've played bari, tenor, and clarinet and still never had a problem. I use more energy in playing jazz, and even more power and volume a lot of the times on both tenor and clarinet. Are you thinking about if a flag girl kicked you in your face by purpose? I know a brass player that had that happen while keeping his horn close to his mouth durring a few bars of rest. Flag came up busted the horn and sent the mp in to his mouth, chipping the two top front teeth. Had it filled and no problem.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
