 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-08-01 20:50
One of my biggest complaints about Vandoren reeds is when they changed the tip profile on the V12 to a "flatter" arc, rather than the previous more rounded one.
I've never found an explanation as to why they (Vandoren) suddenly found this to be more preferred. In fact, when the new flatter shaped tip profile was introduced, many clarinetists complained vehemently about the change.
I now see that some clarinetists now talk about reshaping the flatter tip shape of the new Rico Reserve Classic reed to make it more rounded.
So, again - if many mouthpieces are not compatible with the flat tip, why even make reeds that way? Is there some advantage I am not seeing?
I play on a 1973 Vandoren crystal (with back up mouthpieces being a mid 1960's Kaspar, or a 1970 era Borbeck) and the flat tip profile reed is not even close to matching my mouthpieces.
That is why I either play Traditional Vandoren reeds or Gonzalez.
...GBK
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Author: rdc
Date: 2009-08-01 21:41
Reed design is a topic of great interest to me, but I don't have a clue about this.
Here's what the News Release at the Rico web site says:
"The Reserve Classic reeds differ from the original Reserve reeds in that they feature increased warmth of sound and lightened articulation by way of a newly designed tip radius."
Perhaps some of the mouthpiece makers who set up their mouthpieces for the V12 reed can tell us something.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-08-01 23:23
You can adjust the curve of the tip rail of a mouthpiece, to a limited extent, by using files and sandpaper. All of us "mouthpiece guys" do it to a certain extent, as too thick a tip rail makes a dull sound.
You can also alter the curve of your reeds. This is easily done by drawing a sheet of sandpaper across the tip of the reed, pulling the sandpaper perpendicular to the reed, from the far corner to the center, then turning the reed over, and again pulling the sandpaper from the far corner to the center. Do not draw the sandpaper from the center to the near corner or you can split the tip. Just adjust according to the shape you want.
Either alteration is easy. Altering the reed is less drastic.
BTW - I never use a reed clipper. If I want a stiffer reed I use the technique above. Haven't used my reed clippers in years.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New and Used Buffet Clarinets
Hand Crafted Mouthpieces
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-01 23:30
It seems to me that if you're a reed company and you want to cater to the largest number of customers, you'd make the tips of your reeds a little wide and more square, because a player can always take material away to round off the tip, but they can't can't put it back. I don't know if that's why V12s are cut they way they are--it's just a thought I had. I haven't played on a V12 in probably 20 years, so they're probably totally different from what I remember.
Post Edited (2009-08-02 00:09)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-02 00:07
Well, the bottom line is that different mouthpieces have different shapes so what fits one many not fit another. As Walter said, you can easily adjust a reed. By the way, some of my very best reeds are those that I used a reed clipper. Joe Allard taught me how to "taper" a reed first and then clip it. I would guess that 75% of my good reeds have been tapered and clipped either in the early stage or after playing on them for a while. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-08-02 12:21
Very often companies make product changes to lower costs. Changes to accomodate customers are difficult with a large customer base due to diffuse preferences. Splitting of tip corners is a perennial reed problem both during customer use and during reed manufacture. Better to let the customer split the corner...if he/she wants rounded corners, than during manufacture which results in larger manufacturing losses and higher costs.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-08-02 12:53
The tendency is for manufacturers to assume that their customers are lemmings who will buy whatever they make. All it takes is some hype and marketing.
They would like us to believe that they have magical powers, and know things are beyond the inferior abilities of their customers. The inference is that "they have spoken - the customers must now follow."
Seems like it is time for Vandoren's reality check.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-08-02 16:46
Does it matter? In my own experience the closeness with which the tip shape of the reed conforms to the tip shape of the mouthpiece seems to make no difference in playing.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-02 17:31
I've used a reed trimmer for years to shape the tip to match my mouthpiece, adjusting the reed from side to side and angling the butt to get the right curvature.
For the final shaping, I use a Revlon Diamond Dust nail file, pinching the reed tip between my thumb and forefinger and always moving the file horizontally toward the middle of the tip. A fine cardboard nail file also works well.
On the other hand, I've never been able to use a fingernail clipper accurately enough, and the one time I tried the old recommendation of squeezing the reed tip between two quarters and using a match to burn off the excess was a total disaster, with burned fingers and a ruined reed.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2009-08-02 17:48
Would be very interested to know as GBK asks:
1- What is the difference between a round and flat tip shape in terms of acoustics?
2- Why did Vandoren moved towards the flatter kind?
3- Most importantly, why don't they go back to round, given most people complain about it?
And contrary to Walter and Ed's opinion, I find reshaping the tip of my reeds really difficult.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-08-02 18:06
Ed's tip about "taper then clip" is a very good one! Many reeds are ruined by clipping when the very tip of the reed becomes too thick by being clipped off and not adjusted.
To thin out the tip of a reed, I place the reed on a narrow glass plaque for support, then use a small square of 320 or 600 sandpaper back and forth across the tip. I try to thin it out evenly from side to side. John Mohler showed me this technique 30 some years ago and it has worked well for me all this time.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
I Love the 1193 bass clarinet!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-02 20:40
In answer to Davids S question, does it matter if the tip is rounded or more flat across I can honestly say I'm not really sure. Sometimes it makes a difference to me and sometimes I don't notice anything different. When I make my own the tip is always round because my clipper clips it that way. When I clip any reed and don't do it perfectly I use a piece of sand paper and gently round out the "square" side. Many times I just do it because I think I should, it doesn't look right, but I'll admit that I don't think it makes much difference, all of the time.
I saw a teacher round off the side of a reed for one of my students once telling her that it "had to be round" but he took off so much that it ended up square on one side, sort of like /. If you're going to "round" off the corner you have to be careful otherwise why bother.
It is easier to put the reed on straight if the reed contours with the tip of your mouthpiece, which is probably the reason I like to do it.
Interesting the way Walter tapers a reed, I just place it on a finger and gently run my reed knife over the tip taking off "peach fuss" evenly as I describe on my website. What ever works is what I've always said. I'm glad to hear that someone else does and taught that because besides from Joe Allard I've never heard of anyone else doing or teaching it. It's been the best reed adjusting tip I've ever received so I don't mind passing it on. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-08-02 21:31
I have adjusted the tips of my reeds by thinning as mentioned above, working back and forth over the tip lightly with some flattened reed rush. I believe that the person I learned this from was taught this technique by Portnoy.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-03 00:16
Rush grows all over the place at Interlochen, where Portnoy taught for years. You go down to the beach and pick bushels for free. Keith Stein loved it too.
I've found that a sharp knife is more precise and a small piece of well-worn 600 black grit sandpaper works better than rush, but that's my own preference, Your mileage may vary.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-08-03 01:15
Reed rush and sandpaper will do exactly the same job. I prefer sandpaper because it is more uniform.
Ed - I think the reason to use a plaque and a thin piece of sandapaper is that you can feel with your fingertip, through the sandpaper, if the reed tip is the same thickness everywhere, or if there are un even bumps.
As in your method, a reed knife will work fine too, as long as you remember to take off fuzz and not shavings!
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Contra Alto and Contra Bass Mouthpieces
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-03 15:20
From the "FWIW" morning report, I just compared one of my newer V12's to a Forestone 4 that I have been playing since March, and the tip of the F appears to be slightly more rounded on the corners than the V12. Perhaps that is one reason the Forestone plays so well on my Kaspar, Bay and Smith mpcies. I still feel that there is nothing like a great cane reed, but (especially given the current quality of cane) I do appreciate not having to do all of the "work" on these Forestones to get them to play. They are consistantly ready to play right out of the "box" and, from all reports of listeners, have a rich, "warm" sound, articulate evenly throughtout all registers and--once warmed up--do not change during the gig. As I have said in other postings, I am using Forestone 4's exclusively for the time being, but have not discarded all of the V12s and Ricos that I had been working on, "just in case".
Also, my Legere trads seem to be more rounded at the corners, however, they do not play as well for me as the Forestones. After all these years, I now wish I had listened to my Dad when I was in 4th grade.......and he wanted me to play the trumpet..........
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