 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-30 00:45
Hi all, I must qualify myself first by mentioning that I am a Rico performing artist. I received three boxes of their new Reserve Classic Bb clarinet reeds today and I'm going to give you an honest day by day review. I played through all three boxes today, let them dry out and tried them again. I only play them for a few seconds each time the first day. I normally use Grand Concert Thick blanks #4, some of the other Reserve #4 and I also make my own.
They sent me a box of 3 1/2 +, I found them a little soft for me, could not use any of them. I'll give them to a student. I was able to put 7 of the # 4s on my very possible desk but I will probably have to clip several of them, maybe most. They play well balanced, good tone but just a bit bright and a just a ittle soft on the first day. The last box was the #4+. I think these will be just right for me. Again, I choose 7 that I think I can work with. They play just a little richer and darker then the 4s. Only time will tell now because so often reeds change after the first day or two. I sealed the bottoms and will give you and honest update the next day or two. I'm not paid to do this, as a matter of fact I'm not paid at all.
The down side is that they are expensive, list price is $55 for a box of ten which means you should be able to get them for about $30 in the mail order stores, I haven't checked yet. It would be worth it if one can actually use 3-4 of them as concert reeds and 3-4 as practice or rehearsal reeds. Only time will tell. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-07-30 21:32)
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Author: HBO
Date: 2009-07-30 03:13
yepp... you're right Mr. Palanker. $28 at Muncy Winds.
I'm praying WWBW would seem it cheaper, since Muncy Winds tend to sell Rico reeds a bit more expensive then WWBW does...
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Author: graham
Date: 2009-07-30 06:27
"The more he spoke of his honour, the faster we counted the spoons...."
EP; I don't think you need to insist so much that you are being honest and honorable. Anyone reading your posts should have reached that conclusion about you long ago.
Anyhow, have Rico said what they are trying to achieve from this new model? If they deliberately want to offer a brighter sounding reed to fill a gap in their range, or to suit a certain facing of mouthpiece, then that would explain differences. If so, the question would be what kinds of mouthpiece make the best of these reeds.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-30 12:59
Graham, thank you for comments. I just wanted to make it clear to everyone that even though I am a Rico Artist that I would not slant my comments.
As to the other questions about filling a gap or what mouthpiece it suits best, I really don't know. They ware designed in collaboration with Mark Nuccio of the NY Phil. so I guess if you know what he uses that may give you a hint. In any case reeds play differently for every player on all different mouthpieces so I'm not sure it would mean the same for everyone. I'll let you know my next "review" later this evening, I have to do some yard and garden work first. You know, putting things in proper order of importance. ESP
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Author: Daniel Frazelle
Date: 2009-07-30 16:47
These reeds have been great so far for me. I'm looking forward to seeing how they settle in what I've heard is a slightly longer break-in process, but I can already say that there are some qualities about them that I find superior. They've worked awfully well in rehearsals so far.
I would also suggest that the title of this thread be adjusted. These reeds are Rico Reserve Classic reeds. The "Grand Concert" designation would confuse readers, I think.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-30 21:31
Daniel is right so I changed the title to Rico Reserve Classic Reeds. They also make a Rico Reserve that came out a few years ago and they make what's called Grand Concert Think Blank and a few other cuts. Sorry for the confusion. Heres my final review.
This morning I played each reed that I liked yesterday for just a few seconds each to see how much they changed. My first thought was wow, these are consistent. But then I went back this afternoon after they dried out and played each one again for a short time. This was a reality check. They changed just like most reeds do after playing them a few times. All of the #4 were to soft for me so I tapered and clipped them all, alla Joe Allard. (See my website if you want to know how and what I do.) That improved all 7 that I chose yesterday. They have a full, warm tone and are pretty well balanced.
When I played the #4 +, I guess that’s a 4 1/4, several of those felt soft too so I clipped them too. I only ended up with 5 of the 7 of these that I chose yesterday. The others 2 just lost their quality. I will say that the cane on all of them is a beautiful gold color and the measurements are very consistent. When I measured them with my PerfectaReed down both sides of the reeds I don’t see any substantial difference between these and the other Reserve Reed. The very tip of the reed is cut straighter across than I’m used to so the edges don’t contour with my mouthpiece but when I clipped them they shaped more like I’m accustomed too. That will of course depend on your mouthpiece. I can’t say for sure but I think the main differences between the two Reserve reeds are the tip cut and the taper from the tip to the heart. The positive is that they do have a rich warm sound, the down side is they do what all cane reeds do, that is many of them get softer after breaking in. I’m not sure I like these better than the regular Rico Reserve but they're both cut from very good cane. These are at least worth giving a try but don’t expect miracles. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-07-30 21:38)
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Author: HBO
Date: 2009-07-30 22:36
What did we expect from cane reeds... "/
I think everyone's expectations dramaticllly soared ever since Forestone came out...
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-07-31 01:33
When I measured the Classics against the original Reserves, I thought that they were very different- much thinner on the sides back towards the bark.
Chris
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-31 02:17
David, that what I thought too. That's probably also one of the reasons I think I was so successful when I clipped them. I didn't find the same thing as Chris did, I measured the number 4 to the number 4 and they were just about the same, on average. No two were exactly alike so I'm going by the average. We're talking about 2-4 thousands of an inch here and mostly behind the tip. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-07-31 15:23)
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-07-31 04:10
That's odd, when I measured the classics, I got numbers that were very different. Different gauges land on different places on the reed, which may account for the differences in how similar we think they are.
Chris
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-07-31 16:32
several months ago - over 6 months, i got a box of Rico Reserve reeds and liked them very much. so I ordered another box. however, the 2nd box altho the reeds were marked the same in the back, the reeds looked and played different. I did not like the 2nd box. the reeds were more slender - i mean the width of them not the thickness. it barely covered the mouthpiece opening and table. just wondering what happened? they came in the same box as the first ones. were they maybe the classic cut? i didnt think they were making them back then. anyone have a clue. i just ordered another box of Rico Reserves and hoping i get what i got the first time.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-07-31 16:54
janlynn-
any chance they sent you the german cut by mistake?
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-07-31 18:42
i dont know - ive never seen a german cut to compare it. my first thought too is that they sent the wrong reeds, but they came in the same kind of box with the same marking on the back........??
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-07-31 19:18
Janlynn, a number of players actually use German cut reeds on eefers, as the reeds are a tad narrower, and they can just reduce the overall length by cutting down the butt end of the reed. My daughter does this with her eefer, using Vandoren White Masters. The WMs are German cut reeds.
Jeff
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-07-31 19:24
huh ... thats funny becuz i also thought it might be a reed for Eb clarinet but ive played an Eb before and it wasnt quite right for an Eb.
I just dont understand why/how i got 2 different style reeds in the same kind of box with with the same kind of markings.
oh well, i do hope when my new order comes in i will have what i got the first time. i didnt order the classic since i was afraid that is what i got and didnt want those again. does anyone have a pic of the classic versus the regular rico reserve to show the difference? can you see a difference or just feel a difference?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-31 20:20
Hi Janlynn, as far as I know Rico Reserve does not make a German cut, I don't believe they make a German cut in any of their reeds so there's no explanation that I can think of as to why the 2nd box was different from the first. It may have been a different cut reed boxed by mistake. As far as seeing a picture, the ones I have look exactly the same, it's just a slight difference in the way they are cut or tapered. As I wrote above, it's hard to even tell when I measured them other than the tip. ESP
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-31 21:58
German cut? I stand corrected.
This is my final review. This is by far the best commercial reed I've ever tried. Since I "tapered and clipped" the #4s, see my post above about that, these play great. The original 7 I choose the first day now have a warm, mellow tone, good articulation and feel great. I can't believe how good they sound for me now.
I went back to the #3 1/2 + that I first thought were too soft, they were, and decided to tapper and clip those now that the 4s worked so well. They needed a slightly larger clip but I think most of those will turn out to be good reeds too. I would highly recommend you try a box and as I did, if you don't like the way the tip sits on your mouthpiece give them a little clip. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-07-31 21:59)
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Author: William
Date: 2009-07-31 22:33
Although DB's comment regarding Forestone reeds seems a bit out of place in this discussion, I would just like to say that I have been using Forestone 4's since March in all of my playing--orchestral, band, recitals, etc--and I love them. It takes a little time to get used to them, but once you do, they are every bit as good as cane regarding sound, response and eveness throughout all registers, E3 to C7. I have a lot of Legere Trads (that I played exclusively for over a year) and a couple of Quebecs, and none of them even come close to Forestone for sound. If you havent tried them as yet, I suggest you do. If you have, and were not "impressed", give them a bit more time. I think that synthetic will be the reed of the future--but for me, with Forestone, the future is already here.
FWIW, I play on vintage R13's from the 1960's with a Chicago Kaspar #14 mpc. I really believe that I will never go back to cane no matter who grows it.
Post Edited (2009-07-31 23:18)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-08-01 01:03
HBO brought up Forestone so it was entirely in place. I had high expectations for them and not only did they not sound good enough, but the response wasn't as good as cane either.
That's just me, lots like them a lot and from what I tried (3) they were very consistant.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2009-08-01 01:19)
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2009-08-01 01:05
Hi,
Haven't tried these reeds yet. What is the shape of the tip, more like v12s shape? or what?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-01 02:57
Haven't played v12s so I don't remember what they're like. These have more of a straight tip, not so curved or rounded at the edges, that's why the corners protrude beyond the sides of my mouthpiece until I clipped them. Then they were a perfect match. I could have sanded the corners slightly to round the tip off but since the 4s are just a bit soft for me tapering and clipping worked perfectly. ESP
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Author: rdc
Date: 2009-08-01 11:21
I have tried the Reserve Classic reeds for only three days or so, coming to them from Grand Concert Select Thick Blanks and the regular Reserve. When well-adjusted, I am able to get what I would call a "deep, liquid, lovely" tone on the older reeds, although I would describe the tone of the GCS Thick Blank as more lively, and that of the Reserve as more (excuse the pun) "reserved."
The new reed is different. I feel that the tone is more complex (but no less lovely), with more high harmonics in the sound but without eliminating any of the lows. What I am really excited about it, though, is that the reed seems to maintain this quality at the extremes of the clarinet range better than I could have imagined.
I am wondering how much (if any) the qualities I like about this reed are due to the shape of the reed tip. Rico's advertising says that the "gradual tip radius (adds) tonal warmth." I can reconcile the tonal warmth part with the complexity I hear. Anyway, eventually I will reshape the tip of one to better match my mouthpiece tip rail and try to determine what effect this might have. Until then, my vote is to keep the tip shape.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-01 12:30
rdc, I think that depends on the tip shape of your mouthpiece. Let us know what the result is, mine was very favorable when I changed it. ESP
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Author: Amalton543
Date: 2009-08-01 15:52
The tip of the reed matches up nearly identically in shape to a v12. It might be slightly less rounded, but only slightly. They both fit well with my Greg Smith mouthpiece.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-01 16:53
I think it depends on your mouthpiece. I play an old Morgan which is slightly narrower at the tip then some others I own. I'm sure Nuccio, who helped design it, shaped it after his mouthpiece. It is slightly different than the other Reserve or Grand Concert or home made reeds that I use. It helped that they were all a bit soft for me because when I tapered and clipped them they were not only better in strength and response for me but fit my mouthpiece perfectly. I do have several other types of mouthpieces that the tip does fit but I still prefer a more rounded tip, as well as my Morgan. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-08-01 17:51)
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Author: rdc
Date: 2009-08-01 20:20
Ed,
I rounded off the tip to almost exactly match the tip of my mouthpiece. I used sandpaper and had to work out toward the corners of the reed. I can't tell any appreciable difference by doing this, so what I am hearing is not necessarily being caused by the reed's tip radius.
Amalton543,
Thanks for the information on V12's. I haven't tried one in a while. My mouthpiece was made with the regular Vandoren in mind, with a more rounded tip radius similar to that of the other Rico reeds I mentioned earlier.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-01 20:38
rdc, I suspect that when I tapered and clipped the reeds, rounding the corners was just one small advantage. I think making the tip slightly shorter to the center of the reed, effecting more resistance, did more good then the result of rounding the corners by that alone. Remember though, that would depend on how much of the corners are "hanging" over the corners of your mouthpiece. On my Morgan it was substantial. I know many players that make their own reeds or adjust commercial reeds do round the corners as a matter of practice anyway. ESP
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2009-10-19 22:40
It's been a few months now that the Reserve Classic Reeds have been around, and there have been many new names and switches to the Rico Artist site:
http://www.ricoreeds.com/RicoClarinetArtists.Page?ActiveID=1890&language_id=1¤cy_id=1
In particular, most of the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra clarinet section has switched to them.
Before I dish out $40 for a box (after taxes), I just wanted to get some more RECENT opinions, now that people have had some time to play them in rehearsal or performance settings.
When I played the Rico Reserves #4 and 3 1/2+ a while ago, no matter what strength I had, I found the sound and response to be quite uncomfortable. It was just "fluff", and couldn't get as many overtones as the Vandorens. Are the original Reserves much different from the Classics?
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Author: shmeon
Date: 2009-10-20 13:39
I was VERY excited by the Rico Reserve Classic when i got my first box. I mean, I really loved them. In many ways they are a better reed than Vandoren: they're more consistent, they're more balanced, the cane is more seasoned, they articulate better.... But i ultimately made the decision to stick with Vandoren for one simple but very important reason: I could not get a effortless soft attack on the Ricos. I could not play very easily in the super soft range of the clarinet with out struggling to get the sound out. Esspecially in excerpts like Brahms 3 first movement where one must softly articulate the high D-C#-D quarter notes....I couldn't do it on the Ricos. I tried everything from different sizes of reed, reed placement, adjustments....I was never happy with the soft response. I also had the chance to play them in a very good hall with a colleague of mine listening. I didn't tell him which reed was which. He identified the Vandoren as the reed he liked the most out in the hall. He thought the Rico was too stiff in the center of the sound and the Vandoren had a more pleasing enveloping type of sound where as the Rico sort of smacked you in the face. Don't get me wrong, i like the Ricos, and maybe with further fiddling i can make them work... But the trouble i had with soft response sealed the deal for me. I'm still playing Vandoren V12.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-20 15:06
Omar, $40 is the list price, you should be able to get them for the low $20s. The regular reserves are slightly different from the classics, it's just a matter of finding the reed that works best for you. It's important that you learn to adjust your reeds to your liking. What I like about the classics are that I didn't have to do much to them, they all played well, not perfect, so I had something better to work with from the start. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-10-20 15:18
I have been playing the Reserve Classics for a month or so in a variety of playing situations. I have been VERY pleased with the results. I have been able to do everything I needed across the range with no problems. They have a very good response and nice resonance. I have found them to need little or no work with good results. They have been remarkably consistent from reed to reed and have also been very consistent from day to day. For years I had good results with other reeds, but often needed to fuss a bit to get the results I wanted. It is nice that I feel that I can just play the Reserve Classics and don't need fiddle with them. I would be willing to say that they are some of the best reeds I have played.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-10-20 17:13
Ed Palanker wrote:
<<What I like about the classics are that I didn't have to do much to them, they all played well, not perfect, so I had something better to work with from the start.>>
That's been my experience with them, too. I bought too high a strength for me, so I had to thin mine down a little, but it was really easy to get them to play the way I wanted because they were already good quality (just a little hard for me and my setup in the strength I bought). I've gone halfway through the box and I haven't found a real dud yet.
Even if they are a little more expensive per box, I can tell I won't need to buy as many of these, so it's OK.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-10-20 19:47
Ed (or anyone else connnected with Rico),
Do you know why (if there was a specific reason) the Reserve Classics are single cut and the GC Thick Blank reeds are double cut?
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-10-20 20:33
This thread's resurrection inspired me to buy some of both the GC Thick Blank and the Reserve Classic just to see what they were like. I've already asked about the difference in the single vs. double cut. I also discovered very quickly that the strengths don't correspond exactly to Vandorens - the 4+ Classics I got are a little harder than the Vandoren 4-1/2 V12 I've been using lately (the 4-1/2 Classics are, for me uncomfortably hard) and the 4-1/2 Thick Blanks are also harder than the 4-1/2 V12s. They do seem very consistent, so I'm interested to see how slightly softer reeds (#4 Classics, #4 Thick Blanks) work on my mouthpiece.
One difference I think I've noticed over the four or five of each type I've tried is that Rico seems to have moved away from the Vandoren design of leaving more cane on the left side. Most of the Ricos I tried this afternoon were at least equally too stiff on both sides (maybe not an advantage after all, now that I think about it - I have to work on both sides of the reed, not just the left).
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-20 23:05
Karl, I really don't know anything about the way they cut their reeds, only that I like them so I play them, as well as some of my home made reeds when I get inspired to make a batch. I never liked the fact that reed companies made the left side harder than the right because I don't believe every player, or even most of them, certainly not me, use more pressure on the left side than they do on the right side. Everyone's teeth formation is different so the pressure will also be different. I'd rather start with a balanced reed and adjust it to my playing not what the reed company thinks I need. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-10-22 16:18
Ed -
I think the left-side-harder design is due to Bonade's Clarinetist's Compendium. He says that the clarinet tends to roll off the thumb to the left and that reed makers therefore make their reeds a little harder on that side to compensate for the extra pressure. To me, that seems dubious, but Bonade was a great teacher and has lots of clout. He also said that you should usually begin your reed adjustments be scraping on the left side, at least on Vandorens.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-10-22 18:04
Or maybe Vandoren starting spreading this idea when they realized that all of their reeds were heavier on the left. It was easier than re-calibrating all of the machines!
![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2009-10-22 19:16
mmmm where is this that you can get classics for such low prices? low 20s???! or just any reed for that matter? the cheapest place
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2009-10-22 22:56
Regarding Vandorens being harder on the left:
I find that some Vandoren V12s in the box tend to be SOFTER on the left hand upper tip. This makes them seem harder in the play test where you blow on each side of the mouthpiece. Taking away wood from further up the vamp can help a bit, but basically these reeds are unsatisfactory for me because they are too thin in an important spot. Buying a strength higher and sanding it all down could work, but why should one have to do this?
In any case- I dispute the statement that Vandorens are heavier on the left. Some of them (but not all!) are softer on the left tip. I've measured this with reed thickness measuring equipment.
I like the new Rico reserve Classic reeds. They don't work on my Vandoren mouthpieces (too fuzzy), but work well on my Greg Smith and my Cicero Kasper.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-23 13:28
All of the major mail order stores sell any brand reed, and many other items, at a hugh discount. I believe about 40-50% off the list price for reeds. The only places that sell reeds near the list price are small, local stores that may discount 10-20%. ESP
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-10-23 17:26
shmeon wrote:
<<I could not play very easily in the super soft range of the clarinet with out struggling to get the sound out. Esspecially in excerpts like Brahms 3 first movement where one must softly articulate the high D-C#-D quarter notes....I couldn't do it on the Ricos.>>
You know, I tried playing through part of the opening to the Copland Concerto last night and had a similar problem. The reed choked up when I tried to make a soft attack up high. I hadn't experienced this problem before, because I hadn't tried playing something really high and soft like that with them yet.
It was sort of like what happens when a reed is too soft and the tip collapses against the mouthpiece. Yet these reeds have always felt a bit hard to me, and I needed to ATG mine to make them play without completely tiring me out and sounding fuzzy. It's like there's some kind of weird stuffiness about them or something--I just can't put my finger on what it is.
Otherwise, I really like these reeds. I really wish I could figure out what this problem is caused by.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-23 22:12
mrn and shmeon please tell us the mouthpieces you are using and how you brake them in and alter them.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-10-24 22:03
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> mrn and shmeon please tell us the mouthpieces you are using and
> how you brake them in and alter them.
I have an Eddie Daniels ED1 mouthpiece (1.04 mm facing, if I remember right). I played each reed for about 30 seconds or so on two different days. After playing them, I set them out to dry, bark side down (flat side in the air). The third time I tried playing on them, I checked for stuffiness and balance and used the ATG tool to balance them (same thing Tom Ridenour does in his videos--sand the heavy side until it the reed is balanced, each time also running the tool across the tip a few times to even it out). I then used them in rotation over a number of rehearsals. I even used one for a concert, which worked fine given the music we played (playing 2nd clarinet for most of the concert, I can't remember playing anything in the altissimo register, let alone at a soft dynamic). I liked the way it sounded.
It was a few days later, when trying to play something that required a lot more control at soft dynamics and high pitch, that I really noticed this problem.
I used Rico Reserve Classic 4's, which seemed rather hard and fuzzy-sounding just out of the box. It didn't take much with the ATG tool to make them speak clearly, though.
I'm wondering if perhaps these reeds have really thin tips to begin with, thus making them relatively intolerant of work on the tip.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-25 00:00
I would think with my experience with the original Reserves and also with Gonzalez and Xilema(all have the highest quality cane I've come across) that they need at least 5-7 days for brake-in so 3 days might be too little. You might have tried to play them like 1-2 min first day then 5 min next day then over 10 min and then just gradually brake them in. I usually don't use a reed in rehearsal until about week after I start braking them in.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-10-25 03:06
I bought a box of 4+ Reserve Classics a week ago and tried them with my Walter Grabner Chicago (a little closer tipped than yours, medium length curve - I don't know what your Daniels's curve is). I found them generally a little too stiff to play comfortably, although I can play them with effort. I think the problem - for me - is two-fold. They have more wood in the middle of the vamp (both sides of the heart) up closer to the tip than the Vandorens I've been using (4-1/2 V12s or 5 Traditional). The other difference that, I think, makes the 4+ reeds less responsive for me is that the Reserves are not double-cut - the bark is not skinned off first, which produces the straight cut along the end of the vamp on Vandorens and, for that matter, GC Thick Blanks. The total effect is a reed that's harder blowing and less intense sounding out of the box. I'm waiting for a box of #4 (without the +) Reserves that I ordered after trying the 4+s. I'm hoping they'll be a little more flexible out of the box. I can always cut the bark straight at the back if it frees the reeds up, but perhaps with a little more flexibility I won't find it necessary. You might try cutting the bark back - use a Vandoren or a GC Thick Blank as a model - and see if it's any help to you (you can use a knife or a file).
I don't want to start a row here about ATG, so maybe I shouldn't say anything, but you've brought it up twice. I know Tom Ridenouer would strongly dispute this, but in my opinion the problem with ATG is precisely that it *does* remove tip wood if you aren't very careful not to. It may be that by starting a little beyond the tip, the taper of the reed lifts the abrasive up over the tip and avoids removing cane from the edge, but in my experience using it, I find it very easy to thin the tip unintentionally. The tips of most commercial reeds are already thin enough and rarely need to be made thinner. The problem is usually a little farther down the length of the vamp. Working from the tip (rather than the more traditional way of working from the thick part toward the tip with whatever your abrasive of choice may be - rush, knife, file, sandpaper, other - even an ATG sanding block) makes avoiding the tip itself, again in my opinion, much more difficult. It's possible you're actually removing a little cane from the tip when you "ATG" your reeds, contributing to the problem you're noticing. I'm certainly not saying that the ATG "system" doesn't or can't work - I own one and use it myself sometimes as an alternative to rush - but only that you need to be very careful of the tip if you use it regularly.
Karl
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2009-10-25 17:30
Maybe these reeds don't work with every type of mouthpiece. They are wonderful on a long facing/closed tip such as a Vandoren M15 but less successful on on a medium facing medium tip opening. As I understand it, these are copies of Nuccios reeds and I believe he plays vintage mouthpieces with a traditional Matson type facing.
They work great for me and I would not worry about a bit of fuzz in the sound...no one hears that but you. I know many pros that that seek out reeds that respond well while also having some fuzz in the sound. I also agree with Iceland that you need to break these in longer than 3 days. When I break them in, I don't play on them for 10 minutes until the 5th day. By the 7th day, they are wonderful. I also suggest using water and not saliva during the break in period.
For me, they are good enough that I will never use a vandoren reed ever again. I'm still trying to embrace Gonzalez reeds but I have never been able to get them to not respond with a mushy sound and feel.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-10-25 20:41
Thanks for the suggestions. I have a few more of these reeds left (that have been untouched), so I will give these suggestions a try and see what happens. I think it's quite possible that the insufficiently long break-in coupled with my having overly-thinned the tips has caused this problem--that makes a lot of sense.
My mouthpiece is supposed to have a medium facing length, although I haven't tried measuring it to see what that really means in absolute terms.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-25 21:12
I think and I might be wrong but from what I've heard of Marks Nuccio's playing both in the New York Philharmonic and on the videos at Rico website and him saying that he uses Reserve classics #4+ I would guess that is using a closed mouthpiece with long lay. All the players I've seen on the Rico site that are using them are using #4 and up but I might have missed out something there so take it with a salt in the grain. I would also think since they are based on Mark's own hand made reeds that they could possible only work on mouthpieces on the closer side of the spectrum.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-26 01:08
I use an old Morgan MP, it's a medium opened facing, more like his #6 and #10s and I'm very comfortable with the #4s very slightly clipped and the #4+ just made a tiny but softer. It so much depends on the player. ESP
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-10-26 22:44
kdk,
I have found the same thing as you when I've tried the Classics and the RGC Thick Blanks. I think Rico makes so many different designs because different players need different reeds, even on the same mouthpiece. One friend of mine plays Classics on one of my mouthpieces, and it's the best he has ever sounded, in my opinion. I tried his set up, and sounded terrible. Try the regular Reserves- they work better for me than the Reserve Classics.
Chris
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2009-11-01 00:42
After finally trying these reeds, right out of the box they are stunning!
Just by feeling the reeds, the taper is very even and surface is very smooth. I've noticed in the past, some Vandoren Reeds have had some "hairy" vamps, where the surface has been pretty rough.
Contrary to what Iceland and others have said though about the potential that these reeds may only work on closed and long faced mouthpieces, I've gotten great results with a 3.5 on a refaced B45 that sounds resonant and pure, with limited "fuzz".
Let's just hope it stays that way after today...
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2009-11-01 00:55
I also just want to add, when testing these reeds for the first time, I find it helps to dip them in water for about 20-30 seconds and gently rub the vamp, because the reeds aren't coming from a humidified pack like Vandorens.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-11-01 17:07
I tried this with several of the Reserve Classics I had put aside because I wasn't comfortable with their sound or response the first time through them earlier in the week.
I discovered two intriguing things.
First, they play much better after only a few seconds (OmarHo's 20-30 seconds or even less) in water. I was dipping them for a minute or so and they may have been water-logging. But they still felt stuffy enough to put me off. Makes me wonder how many other reeds I haven't liked because I wet them too long.
But then (second), in rubbing the reeds after taking them out of the water (I normally do this with older reeds to smooth out the crinkling in the tip), I also realized that I felt a slight burr along the tip - almost (I'm guessing) as if the tips had been finished by sanding the edge back rather than cutting it. When I carefully sanded the burr away (I used an ATG block, working no farther back than the tip edge), I found every reed to be playable - some still needed a little balancing, but the stuffiness and "fuzz" I had disliked was gone from nearly all of them. (Aside: I know there are many very excellent, even renowned players whose sound, heard close up, includes some fuzziness, especially at softer dynamic levels. I find this uncomfortable and prefer a purer sound even from where I sit above the mouthpiece.)
I went through what I had left of a box of 4+, which I had originally written off as too stiff, and almost all of a box of 4 that I got a couple of days ago and thought were stuffier than the 4+ reeds. Now, many of the 4+s are in my holding stock (waiting for a current reed to die) as well as several of the 4s (a couple of those turned out to be too soft for my mouthpiece once I had de-burred them).
Has anyone else noticed this burred tip? Is it a deliberate design feature to create resistance or a manufacturing by-product that happens to cause me more trouble than it does other players? I haven't checked the GC Thick Blank boxes that I also bought. That's a job for later today.
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2009-11-26 23:53
I have been using these for a couple of months now, and have played them for solo performances, chamber music and professional orchestral performances. Previously I was using V12 4s but finding I was having to do a considerable amount of adjusting, and while I could get a good result this was taking some time. I almost never had a reed that would play "out of the box".
I initially tried a box of 3.5+ and a box of 4s in the Rico Reserve Classic, and found the 3.5 reeds very vibrant, but too soft to use in performance. I had much better success with the 4s, which i found to be about halfway between 3.5 and 4 when compared to V12s. I am currently waiting for some 4+ reeds to arrive. The 4s are just (on average) a little too soft for me after break in.
For the first time in years I am able to perform on a reed straight out of the box- and in fact got a rave review in the press for a performance of the Rhapsody in Blue solo... I had just pulled a fresh reed out, liked it and walked on stage (sorry, no "break in" strategy for that one, though I do usually follow a gradual break in routine). Earlier this week I was complimented for having a "delicate yet rich" tone at a quintet rehearsal.
While I have yet to find a brand/model of reed that are consistently symmetrical when measured on the Perfectareed (despite what I hear claimed), these are very much an improvement in this regard and often need "only dust" to be removed in order to balance them. It seems to me that there has been a significant improvement in the reed selection/uniformity where strength is concerned- most of the reeds in the box are of a very similar strength wise, much more so than in the V12s.
Out of 5 boxes of reeds, I have discovered 5 reeds that have either a chipped tip or a widthways crack- so i suspect there is a minor problem somewhere in the production/packaging process. I hate those silly plastic reed holders, really nowhere near as effective as the Vandoren ones (apart from anything else the reed can be damaged by being pushed too far through so that the tip sticks out the end, admittedly i find this more often a problem with the Reserve Sax reeds than with the clarinet ones).
Despite claims about the cane quality being superior I still find the cane to be lacking in "springyness" at the tip (often a problem with reeds made from thicker blanks as the cane at the tip is from further inside the tube). For this reason I find I need to be very conservative when adjusting the "wings" (or "ears") of the reed, and find that even the best reeds don't have a very long life (though, no shorter than a V12 to be honest). Despite these reservations I now consider these the reeds of my choice and have really found them to work for me, rather than initial good impressions being followed by disappointment- which has typified my experience with other new reed types in the last 10 years.
Just my experience with these reeds- very positive.
keep playing the good tunes
dn
Post Edited (2009-11-27 04:13)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-11-27 00:04
Donald how many hours of playing life on average do you get from a Reserve Classic or V-12 reeds(including when they are passed their prime and usable for a short time for scale practicing and such) ?
I personally get 20-25 hours of play from a V-12 reed.
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Author: donald
Date: 2009-11-27 04:22
Well, i couldn't say how many hours of playing- and so i suppose then i shouldn't comment if i can't back it up with statistics....
This week i probably played for about four hours on a Rico Reserve Classic 4 that i had broken in, then used that reed for a Quintet concert on Thursday before heading into town to play with the Auckland Philharmonia using the same reed... so that reed has probably had at least 6 or 7 hours of demanding use and still goes.
I guess the reason i made the original comment was that a couple of the other 4s did seem to die somewhat sooner than i hoped they would, but maybe that was because i was just playing the same reed a bit too intensively...
dn
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-11-27 12:41
Donald I don't know the reason for them to die for you so soon but here is at least what I do to make them last longer:
1.Some people use some kind of peroxygen solution and I know about oboe players that use plain vodka to get more life out of their reeds I don't. I like to put them sometime in a mouthwash just to clean them and they get a nice taste too. But mainly the thing is to rinse them under luck-warm water after each play and if I can I let them dry on a piece of glass bark side down before putting them in a reed case with glass surface and pressure.
2. I break them in by playing mf and not too much in the higher register the first 2-3 times(day 1=few seconds,2=5 min,3=10 etc) and take 5-6 days that way. So it takes about a week before you can use the reed in rehearsal. And I make all the adjustments that I need in day two because an unbalanced reed does not balance by being broken-in and it actually will wear off more quickly because it's not being broken-in evenly.
3. I begin my practice by warming up for 45-60 min and use for that a reed that is passed it's prime but is still usable for scales etc. then I use the better once(not the best I save it for rehearsal) and rotate them by playing no longer than 30 min on each. It's also good to get in the habit when you change reeds to just swab your clarinet too. If you are playing for many hours you need to swab the clarinet 2-3 times per hour.
4. I've got very good result by putting my reed case in a freezer bag. This way I hardly get any warping. I even know(think I read it here on the board) that Richard Hawkins mouthpiece craftsman even puts his mouthpiece/reed/ligature combination in a freezer bag with good result.
Hope this helps at least some of it but you know in the end you just have to find what works for YOU.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-27 14:53
Donald, your observation of why some reeds died earlier than others is probably correct. First of course, every reed is different and you need to rotate your reeds. No matter what your do to break them in constant hard playing will weaken the fibers and the reed will die sooner rather than later. Think about this. If you took a piece of card board and constantly bent a corner back and forth after a while it would not come back to it's original straight form. That's what happens to a reed when it constantly vibrates, it doesn't come back to it's original form. Also the fibers weaken sooner when it's keep wet for long periods of time and in use. If you're playing intensely you probably should change reeds after an hour or so. ESP
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Author: donald
Date: 2009-11-27 18:38
My usual "quiver" of reeds numbers between 10 and 25, with a combination of severely adjusted V12s and home made reeds (on Reedual using Gonzalez cane), but for the last weeks have been only rotating between 10 and 15 RR Classic. So, yes Mr Palanker, this probably explains why I imagine they wear out quicker.
Iceland Clarinet- thank you for your advice, I've been pretty much doing what you advocate for about 25-30 years. I have never found cleaning the reed in this or that solution to have any positive effect, but other than that we are in agreement. I recently performed with a player who used an air-tight "click-clack" food storage container to store her reeds (rather than plastic bags) and this seems to work quite well and be a more permanent solution to the zip-lock bags (which don't remain air-tight permanently).
dn
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-27 22:43
Donald, I think if you're rotating that many reeds that's not your problem. That's a lot of reeds to rotate, but how long do you play one? Anyway, I use the Vitalizers and keep them in freezer bags, I use three different bags for different reeds, and never let them sit in the open air for more than a few seconds, as I've said repeatedly in my posts. My present Vitalizers are now at least a year old and still doing their job well and my reeds have remained very consistent all the time. Whatever works for you. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-11-28 23:53)
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Author: donald
Date: 2009-12-02 03:22
Just opened a fresh (sealed) box of RR Classic 4+ and I think this is the correct strength for me- or at least I should have a selection of 4s and 4+
However- once again I find a reed with the tip split. It has now averaged out that at least one reed per box has some chip or split at the tip.
That said, I am definitely going to stick with these reeds if the current quality can be maintained.
dn
(I will use the damaged reeds to make Eefer reeds on the RDual, cutting back 5mm from the damaged tip)
btw- the grading of these reeds is the most accurate I've ever encountered- 10 reeds that are all of a very similar strength.
Post Edited (2009-12-02 18:38)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-02 14:37
Hi Donald, I'm so surprised that you find split tips on new reeds. I can't remember ever finding a split tip reed in any box I can remember. You must just have bad luck or I have good luck with new reeds. You must not drink enough beer before opening a new box of reeds, wine is a good substitute but makes your reeds red, unless of course it's white wine. Take care and enjoy! ESP
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2009-12-02 17:42
I've also had a split or chipped tip on almost every box of Rico Reserve Classic that I've opened :-(
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2009-12-03 01:04
Reporting back about the reeds...
They actually at first were great but after playing them for a bit, they grew to be stuffy, like the usual Rico Reserves are on my set-up, so I had to discontinue using them and go back to vandoren.
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2009-12-03 01:12
"Reporting back about the reeds...
They actually at first were great but after playing them for a bit, they grew to be stuffy, like the usual Rico Reserves are on my set-up, so I had to discontinue using them and go back to vandoren"
Omar,
It is pretty normal for reeds to "grow wood" in the first few days of break in. This is especially true of reeds made with dense cane and even more so with hand made reeds. I would suggest giving them a bit more break in time and make sure not to soak them too long in water.
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Author: clarii
Date: 2009-12-17 01:10
i tried a box of rico reserve 3and a half. using mark nuccios breaking in process. the first blow was pretty fluffy. next day the same. 3rd. same. then i started working on them with knife. with very little adjustment 4 of them were playing equally well and one still not good. ive never had reeds that adjusted so easily. i draw pencil parallel lines on both sides of the heart and do 4 strokes each side. then try. then again if needed.
these are good quality seasoned reeds and beautifully shaped. id buy more-price no problem. paul from n.z
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Author: CK
Date: 2009-12-17 02:51
I tried the Rico Classic reserves and the 4+ seem to work ok for me.
I break them in using Ben Armato's Reed Wizard and if needed the
ATG system . They are Ok, but I feel the FOF Gonzalez Reeds work and sound much better for me. I use a Clark Fobes Cicero 14, Backun/Morales barrel
Cocobolo on my Selmer Signatures.. Still not sure how I feel about the Rico
reserves.
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Author: donald
Date: 2009-12-18 06:52
Hi Paul- the reeds we are discussing here are Rico Reserve "Classic", which is a different cut from the reserves available in NZ. The boxes of RR Classic i have played were sourced from Muncy, though a few other places also have them (and my favourite reed source doesn't have them, but say they are trying to stock them).
Did you get yours from USA or Australia? As far as i know none of the shops here have the "Classic" cut, can you let me know if you are buying them a bit closer to home than USA
thanks
dn
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Author: CltPlayer
Date: 2010-01-07 18:11
I was underwhelmed with these new reeds, and (frankly) have to question if those raving about them received a prototype model or some type of special selection that the rest of us do not have access too.
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2010-01-18 22:20
I thought my first box was maybe just a case of getting too excited to play the reed and wanting to break it in too fast. But nope, this time I bought another box that was a quarter strength harder and broke it in gradually over a week.
I'm still extremely dissatisfied, and do not find the reeds to work with my set up at all. OH well, back to square one, Vandorens! Yay...not.
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2010-01-18 23:53
OmarHo,
Like you, these reeds don't play for me. However, the original Reserves are my favorite reeds. Have you tried them?
Chris
Rico Artist
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-01-19 00:42
Likely as Chris Hill mentions above that there are a variety of cut for each players style and preferences. I never cared for the original Reserves, but these classics work great for me.
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Author: lytthans
Date: 2010-02-10 04:06
I was given a couple of boxes of the Rico Classics at the ICA conference this summer in Portugal, and REALLY like them. IMHO, they are the best reeds Rico has produced. Almost every reed plays out of the box, with little futzing. A shipment of 3.5 and 3.5+ arrived today from WWBW, so Im interested in seeing just how the quality holds up. I did several orchestral concerts recently with these reeds and had great compliments on my sound. The reeds seem to last forever. Is this the Holy Grail of reeds?
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2010-02-10 12:57
> Is this the Holy Grail of reeds?
Only until demand gets so strong that Rico can't sustain the quality of the cane and the manufacturing process!!
I've played a few boxes of these reeds and found them on a par with V12, though I most often make my reeds on Argendonax cane (based on a V12 model)
They are very good, and last longer than the regular Reserves for me.
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2010-02-11 01:10
I'm sorry, but I don't know how many of you are able to make these reeds last. After the 2nd week, they were pretty much never going to play well again. Perhaps that's why Nuccio had about 8 or more cases of these on his desk in the promo video.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-02-11 16:59
FWIW, I'm still playing on one that, as part of a 5-reed rotation, is still going after about 7 weeks. It's the only Reserve Classic in a current rotation of various Vandorens (I was doing a lot of experimenting in December) and has outlasted two or three of the Vandorens that I started at about the same time.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-02-12 02:06
They have lasted very nicely for me. Perhaps a different strength may work better for you?
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-12 03:11
know what these are? they are labeled "2006 Rico Reserve"
http://shop.weinermusic.com/RICO-RESERVE-2006-CLARINET-REEDS/productinfo/RRES1/
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-14 05:54
I just never saw them listed as 2006, or any other year before...unless thats the year they came out
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-02-14 08:05
I just used one of these for a concert this evening (orch/choir/soloists, very cheese orientated valentines concert). Had quite a few exposed solos (Waltz of flowers, summertime and various opera bits), played a 4+ Reserve Classic with Backun Traditional mouthpiece...
Have had trouble with the 4+ reeds having the right resistance for me and playing well in a small room, but not "ringing" enough for principal playing in a bigger space (fine for section work). At the dress rehearsal, on a whim, i changed over to the Spriggs ligature that lives in my case but i never use... Well this did the trick!... it added just a little more ring to the 4+, at least to the one i used today. Received compliments on my tone and intonation from the conductor and soloists at the pub afterwards so it can't have been too awful.
dn
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-14 17:55
Taz, 2006 sounds like about the time the original reservers came out.
Donald, your experience with changing the ligature should be mentioned on other posts about what differences different ligatures make.
Going to the pub after the concert is always a great idea. You either get compliments or you drink your sorrows away. Heck, you could drink to your compliments as well. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-16 22:59
It would be nice if the "regular" rico reserves came out in a 4+, i'd like it a little thicker than the 4. seems like only the classic does this, the regular has a 3.5+ and thats it for plus sizes
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2010-02-17 01:22
Since I got my new mouthpiece, i've been experimenting which reeds I've come to like for this specific mouthpiece. I've tried some of the classics compared to the regular reserves, and I'm actually liking the regular Reserves more than the classics. Better sound at least for me and about a third of the price of the classics. i'm also experimenting with Grand Concerts Thick Blank and V12s. V12s once you get a good one, is better than all the others but man some of them still come out green.. LOL I'm starting to lean towards the regular Reserves so far.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2010-02-17 01:32
Clarimeister,
How are the Grand Concert Thick Blanks? Are they similar to the V12s?
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2010-02-17 02:51
Comparing them side by side they look extremely similar to one another. This is the first time I've ever used Thick Blanks compared to V12s. I've used Evolutions before, but those are more comparable to like the Rue Lepic Vandorens and the Gonzalez FOF's cause they have a more American Morre type cut unlike the TB and V12s which have a French Cut. But theyre very similar as far as thickness and width.
Post Edited (2010-02-17 02:51)
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Author: vrufino
Date: 2011-03-28 20:54
I am now 63 yrs. old, studied with Allard for 10 years from my junior yr in HS until I finished my masters. He had me playing plain old Rico 5's when I was in h.s. but had me clip them until an altissimo C could be played. As an undergrad I played Morre that I bought from Joe. Throughout my playing career I switched to V12's because they were similar to the Morre ( but never had the tonal beauty of Morre). I have just purchased my first box of Classic Reserves and so far I am impressed that all of them played right out of the box-something Morre rarely did. I like the response at the tip for articulation, but while these reeds are still young, I will have to wait to see if the tonal colors blossom. I am playing on a Cicero Casper 14 and a Rick Sayre 14.
Dr. Vincent J. Rufino
Professor of clarinet and saxophone
St. Elizabeth University
Morristown, NJ
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-04-28 01:30
18 months after i started using these reeds, still very happy with them- have had more positive comments on my tone in the last while than for the previous 20 years of playing!
I now use 4+ and 4 1/2 (on a Backun Trad mouthpiece)
Have never been happier with a reed/mouthpiece combination
dn
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