 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mike Hancock
Date: 2000-11-13 02:21
I am an adult clarinet student and have recently started working on scale studies in D Flat/C Sharp. I have worked out fingerings for the third, fourth, and fifth notes of the scale in the chalemeau range as follows:
third note (F): Left thumb only
fourth note (F#): Left thumb + first two side trill keys
fifth note (G#): Left side G Sharp/A Flat key
While this works, my teacher suggested the following:
third note (F): Left thumb only
fourth note (F#): Left index finger only
fifth note (G#): Left side G Sharp/A Flat key
I have tried this also and now feel like I need to make a choice. What advice can you offer based on your personal experience or on your work with students?
Thanks,
Mike Hancock
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Author: Brent
Date: 2000-11-13 02:54
Your solution is the better, as far as i am concerned. I've played a lot of years and done both...your teacher's solution may work better for him (or her) but generally in by experience it doesn't for most people. Sometimes you have to use that kind of switch, and it's good to know how to do it with as little slop between notes as possible, but given the option i'd pick the first.
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Author: Susan L.
Date: 2000-11-13 03:03
I agree with Brent. The side trill key is the better way to go. The index finger can also be used, but isn't as smooth a switch.
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Author: Todd
Date: 2000-11-13 03:42
I agree with Brent and Susan. Your fingerings are more reliable. I've never had a clarinet instructor that hasn't suggested what you're doing.
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-11-13 12:12
It would be a worthwhile exercise to practice it both ways, especially if the sound or pitch of the top finger f# is better than the side. You may be able to go faster using the side fingering. Sometimes you have no choice but to use the top finger, so developing that coordination would be helpful.
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Author: graham
Date: 2000-11-13 13:40
I agree with Steve, and after all scales are intended to develop flexibility not pedantry. But in theory the side key note should be purer in tone in any case because it is a more opently vented note. Try a slightly stuffy reed and the difference should be apparent.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-11-13 14:47
As a professional clarinetist, I can tell you with confidence that your fingerings are the correct solution for executing the Db/C# scale. Your teacher probably isn't a clarinetist but is doing the best he/she can. You should also use that side-keys F# fingering for your chromatic scale as well. General rule--always avoid switching from thumb to fore-finger by using the side keys instead. Also avoid switching (flopping) from r-h 1st finger to r-h 2nd finger in playing below the staff Bb to B and top line F to F#. Use r-h 1st finger plus 3d finger on the "banana" key between the 2nd and 3d ring instead for B/F#. Also avoid playing consecutive little finger notes by learning their alternate fingerings. The Rubank Advanced Vol 1 is good for learning these special fingering situations. Sounds like you are a good student--good clarineting.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-11-13 16:17
The standard fingering for F# when ascending from F is the thumb and lower two trill keys.
Most teachers (including Robert Marcellus) say that when descending you should use the left index finger for F#, switching to the thumb alone for F. I learned it the other way, but I don't think it makes much difference.
I don't know anyone who switches from thumb to index finger going up, but it wouldn't hurt to have that possibility under your fingers.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mike Hancock
Date: 2000-11-13 20:40
Thank you for your thoughtful comments......again, it's an example of the value of this bulletin board. I have learned a great deal in the months that I have folowed this discussion. Now, back to practicing.
Mike Hancock
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-11-13 22:23
This is one of those places where there are two ways of playing the note, the "standard" and the "alternative". The alternative is specifically built in to the clarinet for this situation. When going from F to F#, always use the side trill keys. When playing F# on its own, not associated with F, use the normal F# which is L1 (first finger, left hand).
Other places where you have a similar choice are the chalumeau Eb, where you can use L1, L2 and the side trill key or L1, L2 and the "sliver Eb key", the thin key between the second and third holes. This is recommended when playing the chromatic sequence D Eb E, but I don't actually find this much easier myself than using the side trill Eb.
A final one that springs to mind is the two fingerings for low B: right hand second finger or right hand first finger plus sliver B key. Here, use the sliver key when the B is preceded by or followed by a Bb, otherwise use the fingering with the right hand second finger.
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2000-11-14 05:07
I'm in the minority here, but I agree with your teacher. When I was in college in Philadelphia (back when Pennsylvania was still a colony) Mr. Gigliotti suggested that I try getting used to using the first finger in such a passage. The reasoning behind this is that the side F# is generally a little flat, so that the side fingering can be used for the high C# in soft passages (such as the solo in the slow mvt. of Beethoven's 4th,) and not be way too sharp. Index to thumb is not a difficult coordination to get used to, in my opinion.
Even if you decide to use the side F# going up to G, I really think that using the first finger F# going down from G is an easier coordination. I'd try experimenting with what your teacher is asking of you, and if that is unsuccessful, then try the other way.
Chris
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Author: Al
Date: 2000-11-15 15:56
All of the great, old clarinetists, (Bonade and his myriad of students who wound up principal clarinetists in many great orchestras), taught the first finger left hand fingering.
It must be a throwback to the 19th century.
I've always told my students to use the 2 side keys going up and the 1st finger coming down. The logic seemed to be that it was easier to add the side keys going up and slightly more cumbersome coming down.
Perhaps I didn't want to break with tradition.
Secretly, I use the two side keys BOTH ways...and come to think of it, I shall tell all future students to do it that way.
(Many of the old students never take to the left forefinger in the chromatic scale anyway).
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Author: Fred McKenzie
Date: 2000-11-15 21:03
I appear to be in the minority, having been taught the "Left Index Finger Only" approach. I don't feel that I'm deprived, and never realized there might be a problem.
My first thought is that alternate fingerings using trill keys would be prone to intonation problems. Some instruments have a cork under each trill key that limits its movement. The thickness of that cork determines how high the pad lifts, and therefore affects the note's pitch. While a freshly-overhauled instrument may be perfect, corks compress with age and repeated pressure.
Regardless, it seems like a good idea to have many alternate fingerings in your bag of tricks, and that requires practice. Just realize their limitations.
Fred
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-11-16 05:56
If you are a beginning player, I would agree with your teacher.
SIDE F# - The side F# fingering is excellent for playing your major and chromatic scales. It's the smoothest way to get in those fast runs. For those applications, you have made a very good choice.
ONE-FINGER F# - Much better for everyday playing. Particularly when sight-reading or improvising. While the side F# works very well on major and chromatic scale runs, try it when playing a scale in thirds on C#/Db or your I/IV/V arpeggios in the same key. As good as the fingering is for straight skills, it creates more problems than it's worth when fingers meander through the key playing melodies.
(you can make side F# better on the scale in thirds by using the left ring finger E-flat, but that's slipping even further down the slope)
Similar choices confront the use of the right ring finger alternate B/F#, and the left ring finger alternate Eb/Bb key.
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