 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tinselworm
Date: 2009-07-03 10:14
At rehearsal with concert band last night, as the principal clarinetist, I screwed up a very exposed solo passage - that I've played about twenty times in the past and never had a problem with - hilariously badly. Man alive, it was bad. So bad. Really, not one single note was either correct or in the right place - never in thirty years have I got anything *that* wrong. The principal flautist termed it 'brilliantly wrong' while wiping a tear from her eye. I think what happened was that I made the fatal mistake of Thinking About My Fingering while already three notes into the passage, my brain went 'Wh...?!' and exploded and hilarity ensued.
What followed was that the rest of the band dissolved into fits of giggles and I corpsed for about ten minutes flat. Just couldn't pull it together - every time we tried to take it again I cracked up laughing, in the end the MD (in very good-natured fashion, I have to say) had everyone else sing my part because by that time I was done for.
How the heck do you recover - quickly - from something like that? Every time I tried to put the clarinet back in my mouth it set me off again, all the way to the end of the piece and half way into the next one. It's now the next day and just seeing the notes in my head is still making me laugh. And we've got a concert on Sunday, and the piece in question is in the repertoire...
Is there a tip, other than the time-honoured method of thinking about something really sad - which just didn't work? I'm giggling about it just writing this out - I'm in *so* much trouble... ;-)
Also, please do feel free to share your stories of corpsing, just so I know I'm not alone...
Post Edited (2009-07-03 10:18)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-07-03 11:08
"Corpsing"....Sorry, that's a new one on me, but I get the picture.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tinselworm
Date: 2009-07-03 11:15
Ah, yeah, looking up the origins of the term it appears to be peculiarly British : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpsing - never thought about that.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-03 11:27
Ahh the wonders of corpsing. So many stories not enough time right now. Will post back later.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: beejay
Date: 2009-07-03 12:59
My old clarinet teacher, Andre Patrick, used to say: "if you make a mistake, keep blowing. Ninety nine percent of the public won't notice, and the pros who know will judge you by the elegance with which you get out of the mess."
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Author: William
Date: 2009-07-03 14:19
LOL--Prof. Ray Dvorak, University of Wisconsin Band Director, used to say, "If you make a mistake, make it loud so that everyone will think you are correct." I have often had the opportunity to follow his advice..........
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-07-03 15:13
I do sympathize, tinselworm. I'm a terrible giggler myself and I know just the way that you keep starting off again when you think you have regained your composure. The only thing I think is worth a shot is take a very deep breath and how for the best.
Still, in rehearsal it's all part of the fun.
Vanessa.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-07-03 17:14
Ugh. I have lots and lots of ways to recover from a botched passage, but if I get enough of the giggles, it's all over. It took everything I had to push through at a recent gig when the person next to me made a hilarious, and somewhat inappropriate, remark about 30 seconds before the downbeat.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-03 17:47
I love that term, "corpsing", never heard it used in the USA. We refer to that as "falling apart at the seams", "losing it", "coming apart", "giving it up" and probably many other terms I can't think of right now. So maybe you want to close your eyes and play it by memory so you don't have to look at anyone starting to laugh. But the best way is to start thinking about how good that pint is going to taste when the concert is over, that way you won't have to think about the passage at all and just play in it automatic pilot while thinking about that pint. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com (sorry,there's not advise in my site on "corpsing."
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-07-03 20:00
I would suggest going over the passage S - L - O - W - L - Y.
Robert Marcellus used to say "It's never too late to practice slow." And while we're on Marcellus, you can use his "Prepared Fingers" execise. This is fingering the first note, playing an ABRUPT staccato, switching your fingers quickly over to the next note during the silence, playing the next note as an abrupt staccato, etc.
So it goes: "BUP" (switch) "Bup" (switch) "Bup" (switch) etc.
You play quite slowly this way but it REALLY builds up the muscle memory (auto-pilot) to which Ed is refering.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tinselworm
Date: 2009-07-03 20:05
Hi all, thanks for all the responses!
It's funny, the passage isn't the problem. I can play it with my eyes shut, on autopilot, it's fine. But for some reason I stopped to think about it - and that's when the wheels fell off
I'm not worried about not being able to play it but after last night, I *am* quite worried about laughing again in the concert when we come to play it - y'know , the association thing.
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Author: Tinselworm
Date: 2009-07-03 20:13
Mmmmmm. Yes. A lovely delicious pint of London Pride, only to be permitted if I get through it without giggling. I like that idea.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-07-03 21:58
"And while we're on Marcellus, you can use his "Prepared Fingers" execise."
I was always told this was a Bonade innovation (and he probably stole it from someone he studied with :>)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-03 22:10
Once such corpsing moment sticks in my mind,
Whilst a student I lead the Conservatoire wind orchestra and I remember on this one occasion at an open rehearsal that the euph player had a rather nice solo. As the music built up to his entry we were all waiting for it and when he played it sounded completely wrong, bad sound intonation so much so that me and most of the band were in fits of laughter. Even the conductor Guy Wolfenden couldn't resist. It turned out that he'd forgotten that there was sheet music in the bell of the instrument. Poor guy went bright red. One of the audience member remarked " It's nice to see you young players enjoying yourselves"
There was one other time involving the same player but I think it would be far to rude for this polite board.
I miss college days.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2009-07-03 23:52
Paul & William -
"Clarinetist's Compendium" by Daniel Bonade. Downloadable pdf at:
http://education.conn-selmer.com/pdf/AVP74_Leblanc_Clarinetists_Compendium.pdf on page 2 - "Staccato".
IMO, the description in the compendium is not as clearly laid out as Marcellus described and demonstrated to me in one of my first lessons while I was a freshman at Northwestern University.
As it was described to me:
1) The airstream never stops during this entire process. The tongue acts like a valve on the reed much like a spigot on a water faucet.
2) When the tongue returns to stop the reed (stopped staccato), the finger moves to the next note *at exactly the same time* as the tongue.
3) Conversely, when the tongue releases from the reed, the finger moves to the next note *at exactly the same time* as the tongue.
The tongue muscle and the finger muscle become inexorably linked and easily coordinated.
Marcellus instructed all of his students in the technique of "Slow, Synchro-motion staccato", a term that does not appear in the text of the compendium but a term Bonade and Marcellus used and taught none the less.
Marcellus told me that Bonade learned the technique from his teacher, Lefebvre. There were many woodwind instrumentalists at the time of Lefebvre, at least in Paris, that used this technique to coordinate efficiently the tongue with fingers.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2009-07-03 23:59)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-07-04 03:05
Gregory Smith wrote:
> Marcellus instructed all of his students in the technique of
> "Slow, Synchro-motion staccato", a term that does not appear in
> the text of the compendium but a term Bonade and Marcellus used
> and taught none the less.
Actually the Compendium does use this term. There's a more detailed description on page 8.
Speaking of terms not used in the book, when I was in high school (many years ago) we used to get little sheets from the TMEA giving the region band audition selections, and very often the sheet would recommend the use of "Bonade's fingers ahead" technique for synchronizing fingers and tongue. When I was in college I stumbled across a copy of Bonade's book in the local music store. Curious about its contents (especially the part about reed work) I bought it, read it from cover to cover, and was dismayed to find no mention of anything called "fingers ahead." I came to the conclusion that what the TMEA called "fingers ahead" must refer to synchro-motion staccato (since that made sense to me). Is that right? Or is "fingers ahead" something else?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-04 03:52
I'm not sure how this discussion about Marcullus and Bonade got into this conversation but I've always known this technique as finger before tongue. I've taught it all my career but really don't recall who or where I learned it. Anyway, I want to get back to having a pint after the concert because even if I don't "Corpse" at a concert I like to have a pint, or as we call it in the USA, a beer or brew, after a concert. Let's get back to the subject at hand. ESP
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2009-07-04 04:04
"Fingers ahead" is the most generic and incomplete term used for such a detailed technique. It would be easy to see how it could be misunderstood or simply used in a partially correct version. Thanks for pointing page 8 out to me. I thought I knew the term was in there somewhere but alas, my memory failed me.
The other section that needed further elaboration IMO, was about the angle of the clarinet. Bonade could have gone further into the reason that the clarinet needs to be held at an angle somewhere between 30 - 40 degrees since the reed needs to be on the flat facing of the lower teeth and not up on the cutting edge of the lower teeth on the red part of the lip. The initial illustration is exaggerated in order to make a point but the nuances of why that is far desirable are not followed up on.
I went into those reasons at the end of an earlier thread a few months ago.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2009-07-04 04:11
Let's get back to the subject at hand. ESP
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You can do anything you want to do Ed.
I expanded on the ideas that were mentioned before me & for good reason - lack of finger-tongue coordination is probably one of those slips that cascade into many a catastrophe of the "Corpsing" kind.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-04 14:19
Thank you Greg, I was just having fun with the original topic so I'm going to have a pint now.
I think the whole subject of Bonade and the above mentioned sub subjects are very interesting. Perhaps you can begin a new thread on that subject for us. That way readers will have some idea of the new subject matter when looking at the title of the subject matter. You might get more input from interested readers.
I'm still laughing at the term "Corpsing". Maybe now I'll have two pints. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-07-04 14:25)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-04 14:27
Ed they don't serve proper pints in the US, it annoys me every time i'm there.
Interesting how the topic changed to technical exercises and how to execute them?
The term corpsing is more commonly refered apon comedians, this is when they are in the middle of telling a joke and start laughing before the punchline.
Would love to hear more stories...
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Tinselworm
Date: 2009-07-04 14:30
Me too - if only to know I'm not alone...
Got a gig with the jazz orchestra tonight, hope I can get through it without the giggles
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-07-04 14:39
That is true David, but you see, we Europeans would rather drink beer than soda. The only real places to get soad large enough is the cinema, at least here in London.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-04 15:03
Peter, you're right about a "proper" pint in the US. When I've been to England I've always enjoyed a "proper" pint. I love doing the pubs. Many places here in the US now serve a "large" beer or ale and that's more than a proper pint. I always order that when it's available. Can't go wrong with an extra large pint. I prefer a large beer to a large soda but there are times when a cold Coke hits the spot too. Corpsing, breaking up, falling apart, it's all in fun and difficult to play once you begin to laugh.
Many years ago, in the early years when I was principal at the Easter Music Festival, we had a principal bassoon, Ernie, a long time ago, who would tell me a great joke just before I had a big solo at rehearsal and a few times I "corpsed". It was funny but it was embarrassing as well when the conductor would give me the dirty look for not being able to play while he sat there with a serious look on his face. I really had to get on him to stop because I didn't want to get fired. He left after one summer, good thing too, I played for 25 years. My problem is that I "crack up" to easy. ESP
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-07-04 15:49
....even the usage of the word "soda" left me baffled for awhile when I moved Out East. Here in the Midwest it's still "Pop".
Bob Draznik
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-07-04 16:32
Bob wrote:
<<....even the usage of the word "soda" left me baffled for awhile when I moved Out East. Here in the Midwest it's still "Pop".>>
My Grandma (originally from Arkansas) called it "sody water."
You can definitely tell who's from where by the beverage terminology they use.
Incidentally, here in Texas (where a lot of Germans settled in the 19th century) locally made dark German-style beer (e.g., Shiner Bock) is very popular. Must account for that dark Texan sound....
Post Edited (2009-07-04 17:01)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-04 17:55
MRN said "dark German-style beer (e.g., Shiner Bock) is very popular. Must account for that dark Texan sound.."..
So that's the secret to getting a dark sound, drink dark beer. I'll have to pass that down to my students, they always wondered how I got my "dark" sound.
By the way, we used to call soda, soda pop as well when I was a kid in NY. We also call it "soft drink".
David, when I was in school we used to get together and read quintets with a case of beer between us, the drinking age was only 18 back then. Every time someone made a mistake they had to chug a can. Needless to say it didn't take long until we were all "corpsing". Rolling on the floor would be a better description. I think we may have waited a while before we did that or we wouldn't have sight read anything. I especially remember trying to read the Schoenberg quintet, clarinet in C by the way, and after about ten minutes we realized no one was even close to being in the same place, so we all chugged one. That was a real riot, we couldn't play a note after that. (by the way, we all used the subway) ESP
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-07-05 03:37
I'm not a professional by any means, nor am I insulting you, but isn't considered highly unprofessional to acknowledge, let alone stop to laugh at another colleague's mistake?
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-07-05 05:22
I'm think that occasionally it's ok to acknowledge a mistake and maybe laugh at it (but not too long) at a rehearsal. At a concert it's best to ignore it of course. That's my opinion from a non-professional view.
Now for my corpsing story:
Just recently I went to band camp at UTA (if you don't know where it is, don't worry about it). I ended up first chair in the wind ensemble (first band) and a girl named Sue* was second. We are both quite competent players. We received our music and breezed through it. We didn't have any major laughing fits during the full band rehearsals in the morning but sectionals was a completely different story. Both of us thought the sectionals were a complete waste of time. We were lumped with the clarinets who had vastly different parts from us. They got most of the practice while we sat there laughing at the teacher. She was so awkward and unprofessional. She showed up for sectionals 15 minutes late consistently. She couldn't count the 7/8 time properly either. To start us in on a 7/8 measure, she counted to 7 and expected us to come in on an upbeat. Everybody thought it was horrible and kept making faces at each other. Eventually neither me or Sue could take it anymore and just busted out laughing. We laughed for the rest of the sectional. Our sectional teacher also brought some clarinet trios and small ensemble music. They were specially arranged by her for different occasions. They were simple except the key signatures had no less than five sharps or flats. I was fine with the key signatures but Sue couldn't handle them and played almost every note a semitone off. It sounded so bad I couldn't hold my laughter in.
It's probably not the best thing to be doing, but I felt like I was paying for band camp for the fun. I made sure I got all the fun out of it I could.
Also, two things happened at the final concert. The timpanist was tuning the drums for Sleep by Whitacre and he took forever. In the two minute span, someone loudly yelled,"SUE!" from the audience. Of course the both of us immediately hid behind the stand so that people couldn't see us trying so hard not to laugh out loud. Sue had told me that a crazy aunt was attending the concert so I assumed that was who yelled her name. The second funny thing at the concert was the oboe solo and soli section. It was supposed to be in tune and dissonant but it turned out to be OUT of tune and dissonant, which is a whole lot worse. I managed to hold my composure that time. Afterward we all laughed about it. Great times.
* The name(s) in this story have been changed so that we may possibly have a musical future and our current band directors will not disown us.
- Martin
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-07-05 13:21
Best story of Corpsing was told to me by Leonard Sharrow at the Teton Festival. Sharrow was Principal Bassoon for Toscanini's NBC Orchestra
Sharrow was performing Orpheus and there's a part where he comes in all alone holding a long note. The other winds (Clarinet, Flute) come in adding to the chord.
1st night:
Leonard begins his entrance note and starts to reflect on how "alone" he feels playing that note and it begins to get to him. He starts snickering and his tone acquires a much stronger vibrato than he planned, and a "quiver". The next wind player enters and gets the giggles too from him. 3rd player as well starts loosing it.
Conductor was annoyed, but ok - it happens.........
2nd night:
He gets to the part and not trying to think about what happened ends up thinking about what happened and looses it again. Same effect on the other wind players.
Conductor is pretty p*ssed this time about it..........
3rd night:
Sharrow tells the other winds that he's going to nail it tonight, and dont worry - he will come through "he has to!".
So he's sweating a bit as the solo approaches, but he's resolved not to let it affect him as a professional....
Part comes up, there is silence in the hall as he awaits his entrance
SOMEBODY BLOWS THEIR NOSE!
he looses it again....
He said that in his 50+ year carreer he has never had the op to perform that work again so he couldn't "make it right".
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2009-07-05 13:23)
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Author: D
Date: 2009-07-05 14:12
I recently had to do a band arrangement of Carnival of the Animals which included the Cookoo played by the clarinet. Don't know what it sounds like played by a pro, but the effect of me playing it was awful and we never got through it without someone laughing.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-05 16:06
I wonder whether the term "corpsing" comes from the idea of "die laughing."
Lelia, that's a very good thought, it could very well be right.
Alfred asked "isn't considered highly unprofessional to acknowledge, let alone stop to laugh at another colleague's mistake?" Yes it is but sometimes the circumstances are beyond one's control and even the person making the mistake is laughing harder then the others. It's more like not laughing at you but with you. It's more the sound that comes out that one laughs at rather then the person that made the mistake. One doesn't laugh at a "normal" mistake like a wrong note or missed entrance and at least in my experience, never at a concert. ESP
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