 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: llgusa
Date: 2009-07-01 05:28
I've been playing clarinet for about a year after not playing for 40 years. I currently play in a community band on a 50 year old Jean Barre clarinet with a VanDoren 5RV mouthpiece. My instructor thinks I need a better clarinet. I have found (about 30 miles from my home) an R-13 (Serial # 96979) made in 1967 (recently overhauled) for $1500. I'm not experienced enough to know how to determine if the clarinet is worth the money. I plan to continue playing and improving. The owner isn't willing to allow a trial period so I could take it to someone else to evaluate it. Any suggestions?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-07-01 07:12
Quite pricy for an old used horn without a trial period. It might play well, but it might not. I most definitely wouldn't pay that for an instrument of that description unless it played spectacularly and had at least a week on trial.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-07-01 11:34
It could be very good, could be a mess. The keywork could be quite worn and not easily repairable at all.
Maybe check out who did the overhaul - that person would know how it plays.
If it was done by the seller and that person won't give a trial, that shows a lot.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-07-01 12:11
Might be a step too far. Would your instructor be willing to go with you to see the instrument? (They might well be interested if they're into Buffets)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-07-01 13:00
I read too much into the thread title and thought it had something to do with a time machine. I'd love to go back to 1950 and buy a brand new set of Selmers at the 1950 price!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-01 14:51
The serial number from the 90s are amongst the best Buffet ever made. I have one from about the same time and it's a gem, but of course worn. As others have said, the key work can be worn and the bore could have changed for the worse. It could be very out of tune. For $1500 it has to be in very could condition and well in tune, good luck. If he won't allow you to take it to someone to evaluate it then I agree, you have to ask you teacher to go with you to try it, with a tuner. Take them out to dinner for their time. It could be a gem, it could be a problem. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
PS. Overhauled doesn't mean it was done well.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-07-01 18:03)
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Author: bbarner
Date: 2009-07-01 15:36
I play an instrument like that one. My father bought it for me when I was in high school. Though it's gotten a lot of use in 40 years and has been overhalled only once, it's still in fine shape.
Bill Barner
http://www.billbarner.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-07-01 15:40
Some clarinetists/repair techs (me included) regard the time when your clarinet was made as the "golden age"of Buffet clarinets. That being said, this is a 40+ year-old instrument and you don't know what it's been through since it was manufactured. As others have already said, by now, it could be a treasure or it could be a pig. I suspect it's somewhere in between but, given its age, I also suspect "treasure" is unlikely.
Further (though perhaps you have more specific information), "recently overhauled" could mean last week, or two months ago, or 3 years (or more) ago. And the overhaul may have been done by a first-rate repair tech or a hacker. Even it it was done by a first-rate professional, if the overhaul is more than a year old, a lot of its benefit could be gone. On the other hand, a very recent overhaul could temporarily mask a long term problem that will return shortly. Also, an instrument this age may not "hold" a standard overhaul very well.
In my opinion, the instrument is seriously overpriced. There is simply too much risk being dumped on the buyer. If the seller was a reputable music store that would stand behind the instrument and the instrument was as advertised, I wouldn't expect a price much above $1100 - $1200, given its age. With an unknown individual seller unwilling to offer a trial period, I think the price should be considerably lower.
By way of comparison, the current advertised price for a new R13 (nickle-plated keys, which is likely what a 1967 R13 would have) at the (perhaps for you, nearby?) Woodwind & Brasswind is around $2400. That's the minimum price Buffet allows them to advertise publicly. You might give them a call and see if they actually sell it for less. An entry-level professional Yamaha clarinet, the YCL-650, can be had new for just over $1400. It's probably as much clarinet as you'll ever need.
Trial periods depend on trust. Either the seller has to trust the potential buyer with the instrument and no security or the buyer has to trust the seller with his/her money. This can be tricky, particularly when neither party knows anything about the other.
Because the instrument is almost certainly overpriced, there is no trial period and you don't have the expertise to evaluate the instrument on-the-spot, I think your best decision would probably be to walk away from this one. You might be able to negotiate a trial period if the seller really wants to sell and you might be willing to negotiate a more reasonable price but, given the seller's current starting point, I doubt it's worth the effort.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-07-01 17:42
i concur with jack's post - find another one.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: llgusa
Date: 2009-07-01 20:36
I do know that the previous owner is a retired high school band director and retired professional clarinetist. Unfortunately, the clarinet is on consignment with the man who did the overhaul about a year ago and hasn't been played since then. The repairman is a professional sax player. Thanks for letting me know that the clarinet is overpriced. I also have the impression that a trial period is fairly standard. I will definitely find out the actual price of a new one at WWBW.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-07-01 20:46
Just remember that many new Buffets are notorious for their nickel plating flaking after a short period of time (just don't make 'em like they used to!). So, if you are searching for a NEW R13, make sure to get one with silver-plated keys.
Jeff
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2009-07-02 22:24
If that's a US price, that's defintely too much for an instrument that old, even if it is that old. I actually sold my old R13 for $1500 CDN 2 years ago and bought a brand-new pro Yamaha, and it was overhauled only two months prior.
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-07-02 23:29
Hmmm Jack were did you see that the R-13 nickel plated was listed for 2400$ at wwbw ? I only saw a blemished item listed for 2363$ and a new one for 2780$. Silverplated is listed for 3140$. Well I've seen newly overhauled R-13 from late 60's to 75 or so priced at 1800$ at Walter Grabner's website but of course they were in impeccable condition and I trust Walter to be fair.
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2009-07-03 00:39
I absolutely agree with pretty much all of the advice in this thread to you.
That said, my R-13 B flat is a 1967 95XXX series which plays marvelously, but the keys were replaced by Jimmy Yan a few years ago, and Guy Chadash replaced the bore and finished the overhaul in the last year. So these instruments can be gems, but a more reliably consistent new instrument would probably suit your purposes better.
Good luck on your quest!
AB
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-07-03 14:28
A friend of mine owns a 67 Buffet R-13 and it is a wonderful instrument, but she is the sole owner and it has been to the Brannens workshop for overhaul and tune-up and has been properly maintained. Even so, she also has a new one that she plays as her main instrument. $1500.00 would be too much for even her instrument, IMO.
$1500.00 can get you a very good used R-13. Get an instructor to help you find one, or as mentioned, find a good repair tech and ask about purchasing a used one that has been overhauled.
And, further....NEVER buy an instrument you can't do a trial with. I understand someone not wanting you to take the instrument home for a week, but at least a 72 hour tril should be allowable. You might have to give them a check for the amount to hold until you decide, or a deposit of some kind because you are asking a lot of trust from them as well.
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Author: eskil
Date: 2009-07-05 17:50
1500 dollars for a Buffet R-13 from 1967? Sounds like a lot of money to me. But maybe that's what you have to pay for a R-13 over there in Indiana (that's where you are, right)?
At least here in Sweden, the asking price does seem to be much higher for R-13's and RC's than for any other second-hand clarinet. If it's the same over there where you are, I'd recommend any other brand but Buffet, for that reason alone. Buffets are very nice, but so are Selmers and Yamahas and Leblancs, and those tend to sell a little cheaper second-hand. My advice would be to look for an Yamaha CX, or maybe a Selmer Series 10, and see if you can't find one of them for much less than 1500 dollars.
Or wait until you find a cheaper R-13 someplace else, if you absolutely must have one of those sweet babies. I mean, 1500 dollars doesn't sound like a "must-buy-now-opportunity-that-cannot-be-missed", exactly. Maybe that is what you have to pay in the end, after having looked around, but you can do that later, if all else fails. Look around first.
And check with a competent repair shop what an overhaul costs - here in Sweden an overhaul from junk to perfect playing condition is around 400 US dollars. And as long as the clarinet is complete and only has suffered playing wear, and perhaps a crack or two, then it should be salvageable no matter how worn it is. It wouldn't look new, but it should play as good. Check what the price is where you are. Maybe it would be a better option for you to buy a clarinet that has a crack in it, real cheap, and have it overhauled? Isn't Indiana like the woodwind state, Elkhart is in Indiana, right? If you can't find a competent repair shop there, I'd be really surprised! :-)
I mean, since you ask us here if 1500 is too much, I guess you feel that yourself already. Trust your instinct on this one, if you feel 1500 may be too much, then it probably is.
Post Edited (2009-07-05 17:56)
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Author: llgusa
Date: 2009-07-07 05:37
Thanks for all your advice. I did go play the clarinet and got the repair tech to let me take it on a trial for a few days. I asked a local professional clarinetist to check it out. He played it and said it was a good instrument in good condition but overpriced for a 42 year old instrument. He suggested that I try a new LeBlanc Bliss. He had recently played one and was impressed enough to buy one. Anyone else like the Bliss?
By the way, I'm in Illinois.
Post Edited (2009-07-07 05:39)
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2009-07-07 21:17
(raises hand for being a Bliss owner)
Bliss is really a great bang for the bucks. Some have concluded that it is great for outdoor gigs. The LB310 Grenadilla barrel variant (one that I own) gives a sound I find close to cadenza, although cadenza is slightly less forgiving. (but then again I am just a novice)
A grenadilla Bliss, which I witnessed in the maestro's workshop will be coming soon. According to Mr.Kessler, this instrument is a potential Leblanc cadenza slayer.
Be warned however that bliss is tuned to 442 and not 440. I remember that the designer, good Mr.Backun did mention about a barrel that will tune down the instrument, although I am not sure if it has indeed materialized.
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