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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2009-06-30 00:47
I just finished a three-date performance of the musical,"Hello Dolly," for a church in my home town. We played the original score with added eccentricities, such as a transposed music book to assist the vocalists. It was the hardest musical accomplishment of my life! My question is how much would a theater organization have paid me for my services?
I was given the music one month in advance and attended 6 rehearsals. Months in advance, I upgraded from my Buffet International to a used Buffet Festival. I had to get numerous repairs and tweaks to get this beautiful new instrument up to my standards. And practicing? Yes, I made many sacrifices (I have a job), so that I would be ready for first rehearsals and opening night.
What I am asking myself, since I didn't collect a cent for my work, is was it worth it? I believe it was, but I am having a sort of sadness mixed with resentment. The sadness being that my "romance" with the music and musicians is over, like breaking with a lover. And my resentment is that we were treated like second class citizens throughout the experience. Does a pit orchestra get invited to stand for applause if the pit is actually at floor level in front of the elevated stage? No, we were not recognized, nor at the after party, where the only word the conductor said about us was how grateful he was for having a "tight" orchestra.
I would like to share more about my experience but want to hear from
this community first.
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-06-30 00:58
In my experience the most pit orchestras ever get is a possible acknowledgment from the cast at curtain call. If you feel that you played well, be happy in your accomplishment. Pit music is very tough and yes it requires lots and lots of practicing, but if you're only in music for the recognition, then you're probably in for the wrong reasons.
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Author: D
Date: 2009-06-30 05:36
Getting a new instrument specifically for one show is probably fairly unusual in an unpaid context, most people I know borrow from each other when they don't have what the book they get requires. i.e. baritone saxes tend to do the rounds here as we don't all have them. Do you think you'd feel different about the experience if that wasn't taken into account?
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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2009-06-30 06:08
I couldn't have come this far if I was only in search of fame and glory. Not many musicians I know could control themselves and coordinate all the factors of their life to play this gig. I am raising the question to myself that in this particular church organization, was my investment worth the returns? My answer was yes, but if I was asked to do it again I would say no.
I believe the conductor made some tremendous errors in tempo that didn't occur the opening night, but somehow manifested in the next two nights.
What I take with me is the experience of playing with two women on flute and clarinet (especially the flute) who were at a level far above the players I rub elbows with in community bands. We really did make beautiful music. A pianist, percussionist, and bassist that were in the pocket, were among the other creative energies that converged.
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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2009-06-30 06:16
Do you think you'd feel different about the experience if that wasn't taken into account?
I couldn't play my old instrument and accomplish what I set out to do. I needed the intonation of a pro horn. It is not a factor in my feelings. Good point though.
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-06-30 08:30
As I think I have said on this board before, the only reason to make music is really because you enjoy it - did you enjoy (most) of the actual playing?
Furthermore you may have bought the better instrument because you were doing the show but you now have it for the future and presumably are happier with it than you were with the previous one which is something to look forward to.
You also say that you met some other players you enjoyed working with.
I can't answer your question about what you might have got paid if the gig had been professional but the benefits you now have which I've mentioned don't seem to bad a deal in a way
Vanessa.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-06-30 09:06
Hi MoonPatrol!
Pit work can get pretty emotional! It's hard work especially if you have a day job. Some jobs I've done I've played off two rehearsals in two days. Home from work at 5:30, shower and a bite to eat (cake works well) and out again by 7:00, home at 11:00, bed! But I find it tremendously rewarding. I too have met some exceptionally good players in this environment.
I certainly recognise your post-gig feelings; I think it's just coming down off the intense 'high' that gets me feeling a bit sad sometimes afterwards.
Some amateur gigs I've played have paid a nominal fee, some haven't. A couple of shows ago I decided to buy my own 'A' rather than keep begging or borrowing one... so of course I had to get the pair for my Selmer Paris. I found a good discount, but then there was the double case... ;-D
Indeed the pit crew don't always get to take a bow; but I *do* think we're usually appreciated. We often play exit music for the audience; if it's been a good show, there's usually a few people lingering around peering into the pit to give us our own applause. But you're right, the cast usually don't know what to make of us ;-D
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Author: jimk
Date: 2009-06-30 10:44
I agree with the poster who said playing in the pit involves an intense high. Last Sunday afternoon I finished a two weekend/five performance show. The time demands are great in both personal practice time, rehearsals and performances while working a day job. The second show during opening weekend was the 7th consecutive day with either a rehearsal or a performance. I'm tired, my yard needs work, my car needs an oil change ... but I'm quite proud of what we (cast/crew/orchestra) did.
I feel appreciated. I feel more appreciated now that I've started doing a few things with the group besides just showing up to play shows. I've volunteered to help with auditions, sell advance tickets and stuff like that.
Many shows cost me something. I wouldn't buy an instrument for a single show. However, I did buy an alto sax a few years ago so I could improve my opportunities to do shows in the future. I've played it in at least three shows and occasionally some other times. This show was cheap. All I did was wear out a bunch of reeds. Many hobbies requires some initial investment.
Most of the musicians I've met in the pit have been among the best amateurs my community has to offer. It's been an honor to get to play with them. I'm convinced the primary community theater in my community is the best amateur woodwind venue in my town.
I know some musicians who say they tried theater music and decided the time requirement was too great to not get paid to play. As for me, give me a few weeks to recover and I'll be asking my friends if anyone has heard of anyone being asked to play the next show.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2009-06-30 16:39
Three dates (presumably all in one weekend) is a short run, even for a community group. Around here, 8-10 shows (spread over 3-4 weekends) is more typical. You have to work hard to get ready for opening weekend, but after that, it's more a matter of maintaining focus.
As vital as an orchestra is to a musical, it is an accompaniment. As the saying goes: "It's not about you".
Upgrading equipment should be seen as an investment, not an expense. This show is over, but you now have better tools in hand for the next one.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-06-30 18:08
Well, this should give you a picture of why union wages are as high as they are for pit work.
In my town, pit work is a rare opportunity even for working musicians and you'll never see more than $45 per show unless a big tour is coming through. No way you can say it's financially worth it. But you're doing it to play music and to do so with highly competent players.
Pit work around here pays about what it did 12 years ago, but much of it is musically challenging and satisfying.
As for applause and bows, my current show "Summer of '42" drew only one complaint from the critic. She didn't see the point in having a live band stuck behind the stage and hated to see us not invited out for bows. Actually we were quite happy out of sight, dressed casually, and able to change a reed without upstaging the actors.
Playing a band or orchestra instrument will never be about YOU. Enjoy being part of the big picture.
Allen Cole
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Author: Lee
Date: 2009-06-30 18:14
Just curious, are you a member of the church for which you played. Was the orchestra mostly the church's normal orchestra. I know that when we bring in outside players - usually additional strings - we pay them for a rehersal and the performances. I don't know if they get standard rate or not. Our church members don't get paid whether AFM members or not.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-06-30 18:18
IMO playing theatre work is an extreme case of the general state of music performance these days, that is, one works hard, acquires years of experience, purchases and maintains a number of expensive instruments, and then has to beg for the opportunity to play for little or no money, for people who mostly couldn't care less.
Ya gotta love to play, that's the only reason to do it. You will never recoup your financial 'investment' in your instruments. Don't expect applause, kudos, or even thanks. Expect nothing, enjoy the music itself and the camaraderie of your fellow players, and you'll leave the pit happy.
I enjoy playing shows (mostly), but don't do it any more because of the major time committment required and nearly total lack of financial renumeration. Plus, with a longer run, or a mediocre book (and there are plenty of musicals out there with really crappy music or boring parts), it can get downright tedious after the first couple of shows.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-06-30 18:58
As Dave said, playing in the orchestra can be a great learning experience for players having to quickly negotiate difficult keys, popular rhythms and being flexible enough to make sudden unexpected changes during the performance.
Financially rewarding, though it is not.
After playing MANY shows over the decades I am now at the point (like Dave) where I don't need the meager amount of money offered bad enough to spend the numerous hours required. I turn down many more shows than I agree to play. The ones I now (rarely) do are because I usually am helping out a colleague who got stuck finding someone who can double or triple.
Unfortunately, even the best of shows can become tedious as the weeks drag on. Some shows (ex: The Sound of Music) may actually cause one to loathe them over time.
A $50 - $75 fee per service is about the going rate around here for local shows. Certainly not enough to cover the time, gas and travel involved.
A small side note - You may also encounter those productions which expect the musicians to play for free - After all, they say, you are having "fun" and not really "working"
Run away as fast as you can - don't encourage them
...GBK
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-06-30 19:55
As mentioned in "my" thread on HONK!, its a tough gig. I've lost track of the rehearsal hours, and didn't even try to keep track of the 6-weeks I spent working alone (and with a recording) of the 61-page, 21-song book.
It was a lot of work, late hours, commuting. The small honorarium is going to purchase the Camelliri Sonata.
On the plus side, I did get to play (if not master) some tough music with musicians a cut or three above me.
I'd do it again, but not real soon.
Bob Phillips
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2009-06-30 23:22
I used to play in the pit for a community musical or two each year before kids. It was most enjoyable when my husband and I both had the opportunity to play. Now the horn player in my woodwind quintet plays just about every show in a neighboring town. And almost every time he will ask the rest of us if we want to play. I just smile and shake my head because the time commitment is formidable even if it's just a two weekend show plus rehearsals.
That said, the day is not too far off when the boys will be off doing their own thing in the evening anyway. Who knows, maybe we'll be interested, but I still don't think I'll take the time to slog through a boring book.
Barb
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-07-01 02:20
One doesn't go into music for the adoration of the crowds. There's lots of jobs that you can do put all your heart into and not get noticed - like raising kids! But a sincere thank you or some appreciation from those who know the work that goes into it makes all the difference.
Around here the stuffy opera people don't allow the musicians to attend the after-show reception. Those of us who manage the reception for the orchestra performances, however, think that without the musicians the show would be nothing. So we absolutely invite them as well as the long-serving and long-suffering stage managers.
What's an opera or a musical without great music, after all? No snubs from this corner!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-07-01 03:05
Hi,
Actually, I have never gone to an after party but usually am pretty pooped. After lugging a bunch of big woodwinds (I seem to be in demand for Reed III or IV) to the car, I'm ready to head home. Also as a reed player, the brass have long since left (pop the mouthpiece in the case, store the mutes, and close the lid); many times, everyone is already gone.
Over the years, I have a bunch of guys and gals I really enjoy working with; we have our "little routines" that we do. Lots of laughs and I can always count on them to carry their musical load and be easy to work with in the pit. Actually, someone new in the pit is a little unsettling as that person has not really "proven" that he or she can hack it (I've seen some really tragic hires over the years).
As a former HS band director, I am happiest when I can chat with some of the newer members of the profession. It's great to have this sort of camaraderie with the youngsters.
For the record, I lead a pretty good musical life and pit work is a significant part it. And my chops continue to improve, even at my advanced age.
HRL
PS I do a lot of pro bono music work at church and for some pretty great community bands. It's not about the money (although I stumble onto some pretty good gigs from time to time).
I really have been given a gift!
Post Edited (2009-07-01 13:51)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2009-07-01 07:24
Hi!
Ditto to much of the above!! Shows are great for younger musicians who have the time and desire to learn. I've kind of lost my interest in doing shows and operas because of the time needed, the low pay if any, and the feeling of being used somewhat. However, I would learn something if I had played it. The people are usually a joy to be with although I never was at an opera rehearsal where there were no tantrums.
Recently, I declined when I was asked to play for free in "Hello Dolly" in a Manhattan Beach community church presentation that has been going for about 40 years with a wonderful conductor. Manhattan Beach has the most expensive real estate in California, by the way. Since they charge admission, I really was being asked to contribute to this church of some unknown theology and which I am not a member. The leader and the orchestra members would be offended if I explained this to them as they seem to live for these well done performances. Good Wishes!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-07-01 11:43
>>Shows are great for younger musicians who have the time and desire to learn.>>
Yes. I'm an amateur and haven't played in a pit orchestra since high school, but back then (the era when we had to keep the school gym doors closed so the pterodactyls wouldn't fly in...) I found the experience challenging and fascinating. At that age and under those circumstances, I didn't expect to get paid or admired and, far from taking umbrage at the lack of attention, I loved the anonymity. I quit playing in public eventually because (a) I wasn't good enough and (b) [probably as a consequence of (a)] I had terminal stage fright, but I had less stage fright in the pit than anywhere else, precisely because I knew that nobody outside the pit gave half a squeak about me.
The pit experiences definitely improved my playing skills, expecially re. paying attention, watching the conductor and *listening* instead of playing on automatic pilot. In the pit, we couldn't relax and play the same way twice. We didn't dare get sloppy. We had to be ready to react immediately to whatever happened onstage (including the time a singer fell *off* the stage!) and to accomodate the length and volume of audience reactions. That's good training for people who do contemplate a professional future in music.
I never wanted to go to Hollyweird and be a star, but the rehearsals also got me fascinated with the whole process of creating a drama. I began working backstage as much as I could fit in with the orchestra playing. I even drew and silkscreened posters for the Drama Club, an experience that eventually led to my career as a (now retired) stained glass artist. When my aunt, who worked in the offices of the Metropolitan Opera, offered me a job as a lowly gofer at Lincoln Center, the decision to interrupt college and go to New York for a few months took about a nano-second. Today, in real life, if any, I'm a movie critic -- also no coincidence. It's hard to predict where these early experiences might lead, but in my case they never led to dead ends.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2009-07-01 15:47
As a relatively new returnee to sax and clarinet I am still at that wide-eyed stage where it is a thrill to play pit clarinet and sax. I find that the odd rythms increase my reading ability and my playing ability is challenged. I have always been ready to rise to the challenge with a lot of practice time. I recently played a gig where I knew that the other musicians were all paid because they are professionals. I was not, and that was ok with me. I'm still learning and glad for the chance to do so.
Leonard
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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2009-07-01 16:16
In my group that played for the Hello Dolly production, there were only 4 church members, the other 5 being guests. I was one of the guests. Yes my gift to the church was more a lucky thing for them. I just wanted to put my experience and skills into use. I know this church has hired musicians to support their choral works in the past. Apparently there wasn't money in the budget for this, although we did have three full houses. Someone mentioned above that a sincere "thank you" would be enough. I received a "thank you" but it wasn't sincere. My other small community band does use one of the church's practice room which is free, so I kind of got a good "word" in for them.
I have my own church that I attend and give money to. Their music program is based on extroverted singers. I find it disruptive to my spiritual calm and would prefer a more synthesized instrumental sound. Although I don't like the music there, I do like the message which is why I go.
Post Edited (2009-07-01 16:29)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-07-01 16:19
MoonPatrol wrote:
> My ideal environment would be a theater not associated
> with religion.
Or, as you noted, perhaps religion not associated with theatre
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-07-01 16:26
Moon,
It seems that this is more about beliefs, personal issues, as well as musical consideration. Only you can decide the value of each factor.
Isn't it wonderful to be able to make such decisions.
HRL
Post Edited (2009-07-01 17:08)
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