 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2009-06-15 02:06
Can someone please tell me the rankings of B & H clainets; Emperor, Edgeware, Regent, London, etc. which are pro and which are student ? I haven't been able to find this info on the internet. Many thanks.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-06-15 10:42
In ascending order (student through to pro model), B&H's lineup and basic specification is:
Regent (plastic, nickel plated keys)
Edgware (wood, nickel plated keys)
Emperor (wood, silver plated keys)
Imperial (wood, silver plated keys with flat socket rings)
Symphony 1010 (wood, integral wooden tonehole chimneys, silver plated keys all mounted on rods, flat socket rings, thick walled barrel and lightweight bell)
So any clarinet that is wood and has nickel plated keywork is in the Edgware level, even if it's stamped Series 2-20, Marlborough, Rudall-Carte Starline, etc.
Early Regents (from the '50s) were wood with nickel plated die cast (mazak) keys, the B&H "77" was wood with an ebonite bell and also mazak keys. A B&H "78" is a Bundy (USA) stencil and a B&H 400 is an Amati (Czech) stencil.
You will also have both plastic Edgwares and Emperors which will say Edgware or Emperor, ebonite 926 and 1010s (usually with nickel plated keys) that will usually say 926 or 1010 on them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-06-15 16:45)
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2009-06-15 16:12
Thank you Chris. I always look forward to reading your posts, as you obviously have a lot of technical knoledge and I enjoy technicalities almost as much as playing.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: yvonne246
Date: 2009-06-25 18:51
Thank you! This is something i've been wondering for years, but have been unable to find an answer to until now. Your post is very interesting. I have played a Buffet E11 for around 15 years now, but last week i acquired an old, but in good condition, Boosey & Hawkes Edgeware clarinet and wondered how it compared to my E11 in quality (haven't had much of a chance to play it yet). Anyway, thanks again for the information you provided. Yvonne.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-06-25 23:34
Here's B&H's lineup and their (near) equivalent ranking to some other popular clarinets (Buffet and Yamaha) on the market today:
B&H Regent - Buffet B12 - Yamaha 250
B&H Edgware - Buffet E11 - Yamaha 450
B&H Emperor - Buffet E13 - Yamaha 650
B&H Imperial 926 - Buffet R13/RC - Yamaha YCL-CX
B&H Symphony 1010 - Buffet Prestige - Yamaha CSG
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-06-26 08:28
>> B&H Emperor - Buffet E13 - Yamaha 650 <<
Hmm.... Emperors I've tried, even after repad, weren't anywhere close to an E13 or 650.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-06-26 09:52
True they may play very differently, but they are in the same model ranking.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-06-26 12:35
The 926 has the same keywork and mounted in the same manner as the Regent, Edgware and Emperor (but has the long keys mounted between point screws instead of pivot screws), inset ebonite tonehole chimneys, a heavier (wider diameter) barrel and smooth socket rings - though the 926 has had better attention paid to finishing than the others (though you'll probably still find they stuck the original pads in with Evo-Stik).
The 1010 has a lot of different key pieces and all keys are mounted on rod screws, they have integral wooden tonehole chimneys and the Bb and A clarinets also have different length bells.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-06-26 22:13
re Mike's question - for many years the 926 and 1010 were just as you suggest, both same quality but different acoustic design, they were for some years both called "Imperial" and in the middle period the 926 had its keys all mounted on rods (I own 2 models from 1951 and 1953 both made this way).
I believe that because the 926 was the model bought primarily by the military that may have been reason for the move away from rod to point screws since rods don't take so kindly to rough handling and easily bind.
Both my instruments also show signs of hand tuning by gentle undercutting, something never found on their lower grade instruments.
In later years the quality control on both started to slip, probably more so on 926 than 1010, but I saw shoddy new examples of both in the late 70's.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2015-11-10 23:40
I thought I would scan and upload my 1970 B&H instrument catalog (with Imperial, Emperor, Edgware and Besson clarinets along some saxes and brass) as well as a Emperor/Edgware exploded parts chart.
Also as a bonus I've uploaded the 1981 Australia retailers pricelist with fortunately lists all the clarinet range (including Symphony 1010) and all the various mouthpieces and accessories with some interesting detail:
http://users.tpg.com.au/nefesh/Boosey/bh_uk_1970_intru_catalog.pdf
http://users.tpg.com.au/nefesh/Boosey/bh_aust_1981_pricelist.pdf
It has the following clarinets ranked in this order of price in AUD ca. 1981:
Symphony 1010 Wood = $1230
Imperial 926 Wood = $975
Emperor Wood = $695
Edgware Wood = $450
Regent Sonorite = $360
B&H "78" Moulded = $255
According to the key parts chart in the 1970 catalog Emperor and Edgware clarinets had silver-plated keywork and the Regent and Model 35 (aka "Besson") were nickel-plated. However the keys were (at that time and in theory) interchangeable.
Obviously the Symphony and Imperial were also silver-plated but I doubt the keywork would be interchangeable with the Emperor thru Besson range.
Cheers,
V
Post Edited (2015-11-11 00:28)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-11-11 00:43
In general you would probably find that the Imperial 926 (but not 1010) keys would be interchangeable with Regent/Edgware/Emperor as they were made on the same jigs apart from fact that The Imperial used point screws versus pivot screws on the cheaper models (and so could in practice be drilled out to fit the lower models but not sure about vice versa).
One caveat is that at various times over the years some changes were made to key designs particularly late 50s/early 60s(?), and of course for some years from early 50s to 60s? the Imperial 926 used entirely rod mounted keys similar to 1010s.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-11 02:10
The B&H "78" was a Bundy stencil if anyone was wondering - as were the B&H "78" flutes and oboes. The Regent alto and bass clarinets were also Bundys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-11-11 04:47
The full Boehm 926 definitely exists - our Rep. clarinet player in The Life Guards Band was playing one during my time (1960 -) and had been using it for several years before then so probably made early/mid 50s.
Must admit though I also haven't seen one since then.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2015-11-12 02:30
Are there 926s or 1010s made in other pitches than Bb or A?
Like C and Eb for instance?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-12 02:49
Attachment: b&h_price_list.jpg (145k)
The Imperial series were made in Eb, Bb, A, alto and bass - their basses having a flared lower joint bore like soprano clarinets and were usually to low Eb but also built to low C to order. See attachment of a pre decimalisation (before 1971) pricelist.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-11-12 03:15
The price list is probably nearer 1960 or even earlier - it lists the Emperor Bb outfit at £35 and I paid £30 for mine in 1954. At that time the Emperor was almost identical to the Imperial 926, only discernable difference was that it was Nickle rather than silver plated, but it actually had a fully rodded mechanism just like the 926 and 1010 of same period.
The Bass to low C (not listed - probably only available to special order) was actually the standard bass to low Eb but with an extra low C joint which fitted between the standard Eb bell tenon and the bell.
There is actually a step down in the bore at this point between the existing bell flare and the new joint but it seems to work fine.
Only downside is ergonomics as all the 3 bottom tones are played only by the RH thumb with no alternatives for the pinkies.
The actual tone quality of the Imperial bass is in my opinion actually superior to most new basses in particular in the clarinet register which has a more natural clarinet sound rather than the throaty rather hollow tone on most modern instruments.
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Author: Cath
Date: 2017-02-12 00:24
I have a 926 Imperial B flat clarinet which my parents bought for me in around 1976 from a military band . It was sold as a pair with an A clarinet of a similar quality but older and it has no writing on it so I don't know what thus would be labelled as. It has silver plated keys and has a beautiful mellow sound as has my Imoerial clarinet . Would anyone have any idea what this might be called. It us Boheme system . I have just started playing again after almost 40 years !
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-02-12 00:42
Has it got the same flat socket rings as the 926 or are they decorative?
And is the inside of the bell flare sharp edged or rounded off on the inside?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2017-02-13 07:48
Chris,
Where would a Stratford stand on that list? Mine suggests not very high at all.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
Post Edited (2017-02-13 11:57)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-02-14 00:50
Pastor Rob wrote:
"Where would a Stratford stand on that list? Mine suggests not very high at all."
Probably ranked in the same league as an Edgware if it has nickel plated keys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Cath
Date: 2017-02-14 11:42
Not sure how to describe it Chris, but the socket rings are flat and the inside of the bell appears rounded to me. Boehme system. All keys rod mounted and silver plated. . Heavy wood . Gorgeous sound and I think, probably original leather pads . Hasn't been played much, by me , but came from the same official Royal Marines band in the UK . I'm starting to do some practising on it now but it will need servicing. Has serial numbers ...I was told it was an Imperial forerunner , so maybe made 1950s or earlier ...
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2017-02-14 15:21
I have a plastic Imperial Eb... bought many years ago at an auction. From the case markings, ex-military. Obviously had a hard life but after some work it's very playable. I assume wood was the normal material for Imperials? What proportion would have been in plastic?
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-02-14 19:00
I have a couple of ex-military B & H's, an Imperial in hard rubber and an Emperor, also in hard rubber. When I bought them they appeared to have been stored for many years, but they both restored pretty much as new and both play extremely well. The Imperial cost $A30 ($US24).
Tony F.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2017-02-15 01:35
An Imperial forerunner would be 1946, with a serial number in region of 36xxx/37xxx.
However the 4 prototype Imperials that I have handled all had French style body rings and the bells had straight conical bores with sharp edges, and if my memory is correct they had metal rimmed bells.
If you have a round ended bell then that could be a 1010. An easy check is the bore size.
Imperial 926 = 15.05mm (O.593") and 1010 = 15.25 mm (or 0.600")
I own an ex Royal Marines pair B&H of clarinets c 1946 and both the Bb and A are
Imperials (926) but with the smooth body rings and with no metal rim to theeeeir bells.
The Royal Marines did at some stage start issuing 1010s but only to their Solo clarinet players, however I thought this occured much later than the 1940s/50s.
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Author: Cath
Date: 2017-02-15 02:30
Very interesting Caroline . I would love to know more about it . It doesn't have a metal ring around the bell and I will check the serial number and bore size tomorrow . ( it's quite late here now) I think both clarinets belonged to a Royal Marines soloist though . It would be great if it was an early 10:10 , that might explain the very mellow tone it has even allowing for it being an A...
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Author: Cath
Date: 2017-02-15 13:43
Hi. I measured my old A clarinet this morning - the forerunner to Imperial?- and its 11 cm - measured it where the break key is?
Serial number B194 ...
Does that help with identification ?
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