 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: William
Date: 2009-06-12 17:12
Just for discussion, are they worth it?? Do they play similar to the Bay lig & how many of you use one? (thanks)
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-06-12 17:41
I have a brass one, and have tried a nickel silver one. I like the nickel silver one better. They play differently than the Bay, because they are thicker. For me, the Bay ligatures are too thin for me to really play out at fuller dynamics without sounding nasal. If you'd like to try one, I can lend you mine at some point, or I'd be happy to trade you for an early Bonade nickel silver.
Chris
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-06-12 19:24
They are probably worth $400 and up because they have "Kaspar" written on them. Who cares how well they work?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-06-12 20:42
Don't have or know of one ! Out of an [over]abundance of curiousity, I checked US patents for him, finding only that he was co-owner of 2,508,550 [Stubbins cl, expired] rights, so, does anyone have any other info of his work ?? He may have been at least referenced in Wm S's book, will find mine and look, others also please. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-06-13 01:48
Hi DS, Don, Chris, and William,
Can I ask the same question about Harrison ligatures? They are sought after much like a Kaspar. I see some high prices for them as well. Are they worth it?
DS, you have some inside information but pretend you do not when answering?
HRL
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-06-13 02:47
Dr. Hank, the truth about Kaspar and Harrison products is much like National Security information: "those who are saying don't know, and those who know aren't saying".
In other words, if I did have inside information (I am neither confirming nor denying it), I could tell you, but I'd have to break your best reed first. Do you really want this?
Agent Double-Oh Ought (#000)
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2009-06-13 12:23
I have played and performed professionally on Kaspar ligatures for the past 25 years. I own several brass and nickel silver models with both regular and reverse screws. These ligatures are simply the best ligatures I have played. Chester Rowell, Houston Ballet Orchestra
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-06-13 13:06
This week, my best reed wouldn't be much of a loss. :-)
Karl
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-06-13 14:40
Agent 000,
LOL. too funny. Maybe next time I'm in DC, we can use the Cone of Silence and you can tell me.
HRL
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-06-13 14:50
There is no such thing as "a best Ligature" just like there isn't a best type of reed, or mouthpiece or clarinet or anything. If one was actually better than all the rest, no matter what the cost, everyone would be using it. Don't be fooled by the brand name. Try before you buy, if it's the best one for you then it is in fact the best one, but for you not for anyone else. A $100 ligature is no better than a $15 ligature if it doesn't play better for you.
Of course, like David S, I'd pay anything for a Kaspar just so it could sit in my draw along with the rest of my "collection" of clarinet equipment I don't use. It would look so good in there, if I could find it. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-06-13 21:58
ESP,
I have some cool stuff in the drawer as well (classic Brilhart also sax MP, some Portnoy ligatures, new La Voz aluminum reed holders, Selmer Soloist Paris sax MPs, Selmer Brown felt reed boxes, Bates sax strap, etc.). It really does look great.
HRL
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-06-13 22:11
Are they good? Yes.
Are they the best? That is a matter of opinion.
Worth the price? Well, that depends on you, and on the "law of diminishing returns."
The thing I liked about them is that they can be made to conform easily (with the use of a round nose pliers). The metal is bendable, similar to the older Bonades, which also need to be adjusted with the pliers or with a metal template.
Functionally, I would rank them with Bay, except that the latter is more delicate.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-06-14 17:06
I played on Harrison ligatures in the past. I actually like the new Rico H ligatures, which seem to be a near copy of the Harrison, better than the originals. Since they are different, that means that the originals will play better for some people.
Chester, I know you have Kaspar ligatures: yours is the nickel silver one I like so much! I assume you still won't sell it? ;-)
Chris
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2009-06-14 21:04
I bought a Rico H ligature a few months ago. I'm neither impressed nor repulsed. It does a fine job but so do my other ligatures.
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2009-06-15 13:11
I am replying to clarify my comments on Kaspar ligatures. Over the past 45 years of professional playing, and having tried Bonade, Luyben, Harrison, Rico copy harrison, Rovner various, etc., I can again state that the Frank L. Kaspar ligatures in my posession are the best ligatures I personally have ever played. I wish he had made bass clarinet ligatures! Ligatures do make a difference.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-06-15 13:33
I have found several brass [appearing] "standard" ligs among my small collection, and have tried them both as "screws on reed" and as rotated 90 degrees, [ala Kell/Goodman, sim. to an M Lurie] in a search for "dark", with inconclusive results. Any thots on materials influence ? I seem to favor my [one] Gigliotti [several "Bonade" bars around the mp] in black plastic. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-06-15 19:35
With all the ligatures I own (and some of you actually know how many), I still use my Gigliotti (customized with a Dremel) on clarinet; an old Luyben as well as a Mitchell Lurie fight for 2nd place.
On saxes and bass clarinet, only Harrison. Chet is correct, they do make a difference. Cost seems to really have little to do with it.
I stand ready to endure your slings and arrows!
HRL
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Author: William
Date: 2009-06-16 15:03
Of Harrison ligs, Hank wondered, "Are they worth it?"
Many years ago, Harrison (momentarily can't recall his first name) offered to send out--to any interested band director--enough ligatures for their entire clarinet section to hear if they would make a difference in the students sound. I took him up on this offer and received about 25+ of his silver ligs, plus a "complimentary" gold, and passed them out to my 7th & 8th grade band kids to put on their mpcs (LC 3's, Selmer's & "whatever came with their clarinets"). And the improvement in the sections sound was immediantly evident--and lasted throughout the 50" class period. Next class, it was back to their own ligs and so was the "sound". Unfortunately, most of my students parents did not understand the "need" for--what some of them considered--"the expensive little metal thingie" and I had to send most of them back. A couple my student did keep their ligs and went on to high school band and excelled (with the help of private lessons, etc), but the bottom line here is: the Harrison ligature made a definate improvement in even the least talented students tone quality immediantly. I know other area players that use nothing but Harrisons, but my own preference is for the Vandoran Optimum on my Chicago Kaspar. Hope this helps, Hank, and good fly'n to ya.........
[btw--for me, of the Harrisons I tried, the silver lig seemed to sound better than the gold)
Still wondering, however, about those Kaspar ligs and if they are really worth the "big bucks"--or is it just the "good" players that use them.
Post Edited (2009-06-16 15:12)
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Author: Clari
Date: 2009-06-16 23:49
With the high demand and high price of Kaspar ligature as you see in auction sites. I am curious why there is no one replicating the design and material of the Kaspar ligature like what Rico did for H-ligature? I suppose ligature is relatively easy to make.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-06-17 01:34
I have been hoping that someone would describe the K lig so that a similar, ?near-relative? type could be found. I have never seen one, or even a pic of one. Thanx, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-06-17 02:35
Attachment: Kaspar inverted lig.jpg (13k)
Here is one of the inverted variety.
Usually they are engraved "superb"
I have seen a few that are regular (not inverted)
I owned a few but sold them.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-06-17 02:37)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-06-17 12:18
Hi William,
Thanks for the affirmation on the sonic value of the Harrison. I use the gold versions but have silver as well. On clarinet, I continue to do as I stated above (Gigliotti and Mitchell Lurie).
HRL
PS Still keep my CFI current and plan to get in the air more as I have become closely associated with a large mid-West university aviation program recently. So much for retirement.
Post Edited (2009-06-18 02:56)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-06-17 13:57
Many TKS, Alseg ! I'm amazed, I have a "very similar" one, stencilled Selmer [above], with Made in France [below] for Eb Soprano, regular variety [2 right hand screws] , 3 horizontal bars with a central vertical bar on back, and 2 triangular "cut-outs" next to the "reed clamp". I hope this description isn't too poor ! Haning sold my Noblet Eb [sob], must postpone any trial . With a bit of time, I [others too please] will go to GooglePatents and USPTO to see what a "Selmer Ligature" [US] search may produce patent-wise. Very likely there may be French pats [not filed here] , and before the advent of the European Patent System, may be only in FR, SO, do we have others with the capability to search in the FR Pat databases? Hank, I guess you and I have very similad Lig tastes, I also prefer the Gigli and Lurie "types" . Regards, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: haberc
Date: 2009-06-18 01:36
William, I know you have played John Winslow's ligatures, as have I. I am sold on the Winslow ligature. How do you rate the Harrison compared to the Winslow? Have other BBoard folks had any experience with the Winslow ligature?
thanks, Clyde
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-06-18 14:26
For present and future use, as discussed above. Winslow 4,428,271 , Harrison 3,890,873, Gigilotti 3.410,170 . Interesting discussions of "art" in each ! Winslow has several "embodiments" , 2 and 3 reed holding screws, interesting, never have seen one. 'nuff fer naow. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: William
Date: 2009-06-18 15:08
The Winslow ligature, because of it's six floating posts (which can be arranged in many different configurations, all producing a different effect), allow the reed to resonate more freely than any other ligature I know of--Harrison, Bonade, Marcellus, string, Vandoran Optimum, Rovner, BG, etc. John proved this by comparing ocilloscope displays of the different sounds produced by his ligs and others which showed that the overtone series was most complete with his ligature, producing a rich, resonant sound, especially in the lower registers. And this is why I like the Winslow for my bass clarinet and saxophones. However, for my Bb & A sopranos, I find the overtones in the mid to upper registers to be too prevelant, producing a "transparent" sound that has trouble projecting, so I opt for a more traditional lig that limits those high overtones and seems to provide more tonal focus and projection within the ensembles I play with. So I guess, to answer your question, I like the Harrison over the Winslow for my Bb & A clarinets. What I am currently playing on my Chicago Kaspar #14 is a Forestone C-3 (V12 3.5 equal) with a Vandy Optimum lig, parallel rail insert. However, you've got me wondering, so I think I'll grab my old Harrison silver and give it a try. Only wish I had a silver Kaspar reverse to try as well.
To add info to the Kaspar lig debate, it should be noted that our university professor who played a Kaspar lig when she came to town (former student of Elsa V and member of Washington US Air Force Band) is now using a Vandoran Optimum ligature, as are all other symphony clarinetists in this city. Still, my curiosity for the legendary Kaspar ligature persists.......thank's for all of your postings.
Post Edited (2009-06-18 15:17)
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Author: William
Date: 2009-06-19 15:06
As a result of the postings by Hank & Clyde, above, I got out my old Harrison lig and took it to our Capitol City Band concert last evening where I was able to compare its sound with that of my "trusty ole" Vandoran Optimum with the parallel rail insert. I first tested the Vandy--all of us (3 Bb's & 1 Bass) in the clarinet section are miked so there is good feedback of sound--with my C-3 Forestone reed and then, the Harrison. Much to my amazement, the Harrison produced a much more focused sound and allowed so much more dynamic flexability and projection (not that I actually need it with the mike, etc) that I used it for the entire hour long concert. I am playing on a recital tonight--no mike, all accoustic--and plan to use it again, hoping for similar results. I will be a part of the Beethovan Trio, op. 11 and will let you all know how the lig did.
BTW, Hank, next Thursday eve, I will be playing bari sax with the Capitol City Band using a silver Harrison lig on my Eugene Rousseau JDX 7 "Jazz" mouthpiece. No mike will be necessary, lol.
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Author: 68fordfalcon
Date: 2009-06-20 13:28
I have a Kaspar ligature and use it most of the time. It's of the nickel silver variety, with what appear to be brass posts. I've always preferred metal ligatures, and this one plays similarly to an old Bonade nickel silver ligature that I used until one of the rails fell off. Certainly the material has something to do with the quality of these ligatures. Is it possible that an unplated, quality metal has a significant impact on the quality of a ligature?
Campbell MacDonald
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-06-21 02:10
William,
I'll bet that's a bari blast. LOL.
Those Harrison Bari ligatures are getting very scarce. I use mine on BC as well as Bari (tough call with a reed 3 or 4 book sometimes when both those instruments are part of the double).
HRL
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Author: susieray
Date: 2009-06-22 01:07
Attachment: kaspar lig.jpg (83k)
I have a Kaspar ligature with rails inside like a Bonade. I didn't think
Kaspars had rails. Maybe a previous owner added these? I much
prefer my Spriggs ligatures to this one, but this may not be the best
example of what a Kaspar is supposed to be like, if those rails are a modification.
Post Edited (2009-06-22 01:10)
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2009-06-22 23:07
I will have a batch of these Kaspar-Scotty creations at the OU Symposium if anyone wants to try them. Bob Scott now has all of the remaining ligature bodies and he is making them with his proprietary screws. They are $50 plus shipping.
I have included a few pictures so you can see what they look like.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-06-22 23:57
Hmmm...and will they work on a mouthpiece that doesn't tilt??
OK Brad, fess up...some new design there, right?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-06-23 00:53
Brad,
I have several Scott barrels (several with autographs) that I got the C. Robert Scott. They play well and are wonderful barrels.
How did you and he get involved in the ligature project (if it is not a trade secret)?
HRL
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