 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-07 02:59
I've recently started playing bass clarinet. The lower register plays easily and speaks out well. I haven't dedicated myself to the altissimo register, but I have the impression that the notes aren't all that difficult to find. However the clarion register has me puzzled. The sound is very muted, and the notes can be a bit difficult to initiate. I don't think I can blame the mouthpiece, because I have two of them, and though mouthpieces are better or worse, it is unlikely that two of them would be awful. So its either me, or maybe a low pad, or some other adjustment, or a bit of both. What suggestions can you make for getting a full, rich tone with the register key depressed?
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2000-11-07 06:26
I have a Selmer model 35 which is their top of the line low Eb model and I find the clarion register a little stuffy and unresponsive. The stock mouthpiece, a Selmer HS* I think, was impossible for me to play so I got a more open mpc., a Vandoren B46, which has a tip opening of .081". This opened up the clarion a good bit but I was still dissatisfied so I bought a special order piece from Charles Bay with a tip opening of .100". This was a big improvement over the B46 but I still find the clarion register a little stuffy and unresponsive, particularly top space E through G#. I think it's just the nature of the instrument that the clarion (and to a lesser degree the altissimo) are difficult to play. My experience thus far is that the more open the mouthpiece the more open and responsive the sound. Therefore I'm considering ordering another piece from Bay with a tip opening of .115" or .120". I think this will open the sound up even more. Unfortunately, this starts to run into some serious bucks. Saxophone mouthpieces are available with tip openings well beyond what even an experienced pro would ever need but the largest tip opening for bass clarinet currently available (at least from WW/BW) is the Vandoren Crystal A3 with a tip opening of .082", just slightly larger than the B46 which I found to be much too closed. So for a sufficiently open piece (probably with a .100" tip or larger) you have to go special order. Charles Bay will make a piece with any tip opening or facing but there may be a long wait and they ain't cheap (I paid $250 for mine plus another $50 for his rather ornate inverted ligature). I am convinced that a very open mouthpiece is the way to overcome the inherent stuffiness and unresponsiveness of the bass clarinet.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2000-11-07 14:18
I may not be able to pinpoint your problem, but I disagree with the statement that bass clarinets are inherently stuffy and unresponsive. I have no problem getting a nice clear tone out of all registers with my Buffet 1193-2 and a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece. And, although I have never tried one, I would expect the top-of-the-line Selmers to respond similarly. I also had no problems with a 45-year-old Leblanc and an unknown model Vandoren mouthpiece.
In addition to experimenting with mouthpieces and reeds, check your embouchure. The advice I have seen on this bulletin board is to put more of the mouthpiece in your mouth with lower clarinets and use a looser embouchure. And, as holds true for all clarinets, you should not need to change the pressure on the reed when going from the lower to the clarion register.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-11-07 14:53
An excellent question and above replies. My best bass is a Selmer "31+32" upgraded to 33 equivalent {1970's version} and I still desire to approach the evenness of the Bb soprano in clarion to chalemeau, may just be impossible! The double register keying I have [the high vent is on the neck] greatly helps the mid-staff B,C and C#, but the D and D# are "marginal" [the change-over area] IMHO. I found that my best-sounding mp was the old Sel C*, as better than a B45, a Bay, Noblet,and Bundy 3 at least for my horn. I am investigating two old plastics [with DRK's] for difference-improvements?, and would ask also for Dave Spiegelthal's comments on this important subject. Will follow and report any progress. Don
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-11-07 21:28
Ken -
The first place to check is the register mechanism. They are notoriously temperamental and go out of adjustment often. While the instrument is in the shop, the other pads should be checked. Most school bass clarinets leak like seives.
If that's OK, you may need a better mouthpiece. Buy a new Selmer C* and send it to Everett Matson. I went to him a few months ago and he turned a C* (the model he prefers to work on) into a superb player -- much better than anything you could buy in a music store.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: R. Simpson
Date: 2000-11-08 02:31
I play on a Buffet C-13 with a Bundy3 mpc. all registers are very clear and nice sounding. My Band director says that music store salesmen think she's crazy for buying these ''cheap'' mpcs, but they sound very nice.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-08 02:42
I've got three mouthpieces coming in for a trial in several weeks, and as soon as my repairman can dig out from under his backlog I'm going to get an overhaul. At that point I'll have no further excuses. I hope that one or the other of those will make a difference. In the meantime I'll keep trying for a big fat sound, especially at the top of the clarion register where it really pinches in. Thank you for your suggestions.
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Author: Don Gross
Date: 2000-11-08 20:34
Ken,
Before any of us can really be of help, we need to know what make of horn you're playing -- and in particular if it has a double register key system with one of the register vents on the neck. If it doesn't, the instrument essentially needs to be in virtually PERFECT, leak-free adjustment to get the clarion notes to sound properly. I currently have a 1950 vintage Selmer Paris bass to low Eb and a 1984 Amati to low C (with essentially the old Kohlert keywork design). When I first took up the bass about 15 years ago, I played on a very good, put poorly adjusted, Leblanc with the a single register key. It was absolutely impossible to get the horn to play above the first space G above the staff. However, the instrument has recently been completely overhauled by the school (Caltech) and it plays almost as well as my other two bass clarinets with the double register keys.
So...whatcha got?
Don Gross
La Canada, California
Bass/Contrabass Clarinet: Claremont Symphonic Winds, Caltech/Occidental College Concert Band, Cal State Los Angeles Wind Ensemble.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-09 00:53
I have a Selmer Series 9 bass to Eb. It has had a very cursory repair,
but I suspect further problems. Unfortunately the repairman is swamped
right now, so he just did what he could manage in a few minutes to tide me
over until he can do the complete overhaul that I really want
By the way, one of the mouthpieces is a Buffet, and the other is
unidentifiable because it has no markings. Neither mouthpiece shows
significant wear or damage. I'm liking the unidentified mouthpiece better.
I've ordered a Selmer C*, a Roger Garrett MO, and a Pomerico #2 to audition.
The upper end of the clarion register is where the horn plays worst.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-11-09 12:45
I see all ex-factory Selmer Bass clarinets that arrive on these shores. They all need substantial work before they play properly, and then they are awesome.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-11-09 12:48
I was writing about Selmer Paris, in case that needed clarification. And I hope the manufacturer reads this and feels ashamed. By the way II doubt that any other make is any better. This observation applies to soprano clarinets also.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-11-09 17:32
Am interested, Ken, tks for the tip. I have an old and a newer Bundy 3, are they sufficiently close to the C* to be refaced and improved? I do like my C*, but could easily afford to buy a new one, I guess. If Everett should read this, please E-M me. Can't find his address. Thanx, Don
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2000-11-09 19:36
I'm interested in the refacing of a C* too. Anyone with info on this, would you please e-mail me too? thanx.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-10 01:30
Better tell us all how to find Everett Matson so we can get in line with our C* s clenched in our grubby little fists!
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-11-11 18:32
I have similar problems on a (plastic) Yamaha 221. (same model as the Vito, I believe)
My clarion register is okay up to F, but F# and above are extremely stuffy and prone to squeak if pushed too hard. Staccato is particularly difficult.
Mouthpiece is a Vandoren B45, which works well on the rest of the horn. Reed is a medium Bari Star (plastic) tenor sax reed. (Do I get a blindfold and cigarette?)
I've played both the Selmer and Buffet top line horns with the B45 and their performance was outstanding.
Allen Cole
allencole@richmond.com
http://allencole.tripod.com
http://www.jamschool.net
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