 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2009-05-31 12:40
After playing on Gonzalez F.O.F. reeds for about a year now, consistently, the reed tips are (almost) always extremely thin, which causes a lot of my squeaking. Is there any way to prevent this? (Equipment listed in signature.)
Thanks to whomever can help.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-05-31 14:23
The profile each company cuts into its reeds is designed (one would hope) and not random or accidental. So, if you are really consistently uncomfortable with a particular reed brand, you have three choices: find a reed that feels more comfortable; learn to adjust the reeds you're using so they are comfortable for you to play; find different equipment that's friendlier to the reeds you're uncomfortable with.
I'll assume, if the problem is thin tips, that you've tried a strength higher to see if the additional stiffness counters the thin cut at the tip and a strength lower to see if more vibrancy over the rest of the reed balances the thin tip better. If simply changing strengths works, that would be the easiest fix (full disclaimer - I've never found Gonzalez reeds comfortable on the Zinner-based Grabner mouthpieces I use).
If than doesn't work, you can try clipping a very thin sliver off the tips that are too thin. If that doesn't make the reed more playable, but instead too resistant. you can then remove some cane (with the medium of your choice - rush, a knife, sandpaper, Ridenour ATG) from the sides, avoiding going into the tip or the heart of the reed. This takes some practice.
You may find, if you really closely examine the reeds you're squeaking on, that there's actually a stiff spot in the tip - maybe a single fiber or two of the grain that comes all the way up to the end. A hard spot like that can cause the reed to divide into a higher vibration mode, producing an unwanted high partial (a squeak) instead of the pitch you intended. The repair for this problem is, of course, to thin the hard spot so it's balanced with the rest of the tip - easier said than done even if you can locate the exact spot.
If this is a really consistent problem for you and not just a reed or two per box, it would probably be easier to find another brand that comes closer to the kind of response you need on your equipment with your approach to embouchure. It takes some experimenting and a willingness to waste some money on trials that don't pan out, but if you find something that works better, you're saving a lot of headache and probably some cash (on discarded reeds) down the road.
There are a number of short books and chapters of other longer books about reed adjustment. Even if you end up switching brands, being able to balance and adjust reeds is a hugely helpful skill.
Good luck.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-05-31 21:26
Look to your embouchure first, especially the support at the corners.
If reed tip thickness is the only reason you squeak, then it's likely we'd hear many many more people complain about about the same problem with brand A, B, ... Z, but if you search on the BBD for reed profile problems and squeaking problems, I don't think you're likely to come up the much there.
I suppose that, if you buy enough different brands of reeds and in different reed strengths, you'll find one that will decrease your tendency to squeak. However, that wouldn't necessarily point to the original reed profile as being the problem; rather, it would indicate that one reed masks the problem better than another. (This also hold true with mouthpieces, by the way.)
Look to the most simple likelihood first--embouchure, in this case.
If all is well with your chops (after spending enough effort to make sure that's the case, especially having your teacher see if he/she can figure out what's going on, or working with Larry Guy's "Embouchure Building for Clarinetists"), then go looking for reeds and mouthpieces to fix the problem.
If you look to different equipment for a fix first, you may either mask a problem that will become more evident later on in your playing career, or you'll be hemmed in to using a specific setup.
B.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-31 23:39
Sounds like the situation with the old Olivieri reeds -- their particular style of cut had a thick heart but thin tip (because SOMETHING has to vibrate!). Consequently when they played well they were really good, but any imbalance in the tip and they'd be prone to squeaking.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-06-01 00:53
Yet there isn't and hasn't been an outcry about Gonzalez reeds squeaking.
Occam's razor.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-06-01 03:43
Perhaps there's been no outcry because THE GONZALEZ MAFIA IS NEARLY AS FEARED AS THE BUFFET MAFIA?
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-06-01 05:25
The "Gonzalez Mafia"? That's a stretch, David.
At any rate, the reason for my post was to reiterate that changing a setup to alleviate a problem is the first impulse most people have, and the least helpful because most significant problems (squeaking, for example) can almost always be traceable back to the player, not the equipment.
Unless the equipment is obviously faulty, problems like squeaking are best alleviated by learning good playing techniques, not choosing equipment that masks a problem.
As always, there will be those who will shout "YRMV," but in my decades of playing, being around other players, and teaching, I've never come across any reed, mouthpiece, clarinet, ligature, or any other piece of hardware that INDUCED a serious problem that wasn't there already--in the player.
B.
Vandoren Rue Lepic, Reeds Australia "Passion," Rico Grand Concert thick blank, or Gonzalez F.O.F.,...and therefore not a card-carrying member of the Gonzalez Mafia (all ten of them).
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-06-01 11:22
I am of course kidding, B. Seriously, I'd also consider the possibility of a slight imbalance in the mouthpiece facing at the tip end, which would exacerbate any tendency of thin-tipped reeds to squeak.
I never blame the player. The player, like the customer, is always right!
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2009-06-01 20:32
On Saturday, I went to see my private teacher, thinking that what was causing my squeaking was my neglect to keep the lower lip down since it tends to move up when I start playing. We checked to see if it was that by making sure that my lip was kept down, but as it turns out, there were still squeaks.
I also tried a different clarinet configuration (it was a "professional" Selmer, however I don't know anything else about it), 2 different mouthpieces (B45, M13), and two different kinds of reeds (Gonzalez Regular Cut, Vandoren Traditional) during that lesson. When I used the other two reeds, there weren't any squeaking problems. The same occurred when I used the Selmer clarinet. (However, my teacher did make a comment that my clarinet seems to have a "brighter" sound.)
Since it was my first lesson on reed fixing, we then started by putting the Gonzalez F.O.F. next to a light and compared it with a Vandoren Traditional; she [my teacher] then noticed that the F.O.F. was quite thin at the tip compared to the Vandoren.
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About the reed itself, what was concerning was that I had only played it for two days (Friday, Saturday) and it was causing all of the squeaking. It may be perhaps that I played on it too much (?), but I don't know.
Thank you all for all of your feedback.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
Post Edited (2009-06-01 20:32)
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2009-06-01 22:48
Quote:
Since it was my first lesson on reed fixing, we then started by putting the Gonzalez F.O.F. next to a light and compared it with a Vandoren Traditional; she [my teacher] then noticed that the F.O.F. was quite thin at the tip compared to the Vandoren.
Isn't the FOF comparable to Vandoren V-12 since it is profiled off a thicker blank? Comparing the tip of a FOF to a Vandoren Traditional isn't a fair comparison IMO because they are two different profiles.
I've never been a V-12 fan because my set-up favors a thinner blank reed. From your description of the lesson you may prefer a thinner blank reed afterall. When comparing the Gonzales RC to the Vandoren Trad. I find the RC cane takes a bit longer to break in, but doesn't get thin at the tip like my Vandoren Traditional does. A good Gonazales RC (and I find almost all in the box are good) last much longer than a good Vandoren Traditional. I also find Vandoren Traditionals give me a thinner sound in my altissimo, but different strokes, etc.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-06-01 23:16
I don't have the tools to measure the actual tip thickness, but just from the feel of how they flex when you run a thumbnail behind them gently, I'd be surprised if the tips are different between V12 and VD Traditional reeds. The difference, I think - again by eye - is in the amount of heart wood and the thickness back in the corners of the vamp near the bark.
As far as F.O.F. comparing to V12s is concerned, I guess they do in terms of the thickness of the blank itself, but the last time I tried and closely examined the reeds in a box of F.O.F., there seemed to be a slight but noticeable scoop in the vamp a little above the bark, suggesting that the whole taper was from that point thinner than a V12.
All of that said, I would be suspicious of making any judgments based only on holding a reed up to or near a light source - too many variables could make the reeds look different other than the actual thickness.
Karl
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