 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: smithsummit
Date: 2009-05-13 20:28
Hi Folks,
I am looking to purchase a bass clarinet and have ~$2,000-2,500 for the instrument. Have additional funds set aside for incidentals...
That price range seems to be dominated by use Noblet L60's. Other instruments I should consider?
Regards,
Rob
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-05-13 20:53
The Ridenour bass clarinet to low C with Professional handcraft mouthpiece is on sale was 3125$ but is now on sale for 2344$. Clarinet made out of hard rubber. Made in China and hand finished and set up by Tom Ridenour. You can also pay it in 2-4 monthly payments without any interests. Act quickly because this offer is only available until 20th May.
Check his spring sale page on <www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/springsale.html>
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-14 12:56
Rob,
Do you have to spend your entire budget, or could you be persuaded to spend only half of it? Please contact me off-line.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-05-14 18:21
If you're considering a Noblet L60, you should easily find a Leblanc 400 in the same price range, or maybe even much less. I know that on this board I should duck for cover, but I have a 400 that plays beautifully. All other things being equal, I would happily choose the Leblanc over the Noblet.
Best regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-14 18:31
Jim,
Please correct me if I'm wrong (which is very likely), but it's my understanding that the Leblanc 400 and Noblet basses are acoustically identical and differ only in two mechanical details (metal-sleeve vs. corked tenon necks, and a slight difference in the register mechanism -- both of which are single-vent systems). In my fairly limited playing experience with both types I've found quite a bit of variation among samples of each, but on the average they play about the same.
It would be interesting to hear comments from other Leblanc and/or Noblet bass players out there.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-05-14 19:57
David,
The only direct comparison I can cite between Leblanc and Noblet basses would involve a very old Noblet that is probably not representative. I don't know if they are acoustically identical, but they are certainly similar. Having experience with several other (non-BC) instruments in both Leblanc and Noblet lines, I consider the Leblanc to be of over-all higher quality, which in some cases is reflected in the intonation characteristics. Other details in favor of the Leblanc are the more extensive use of locking screws to keep the posts from turning. It is true that both are single register vent systems. However, with a good mouthpiece set up mine plays so well throughout the entire range that I honestly don't know what all the fuss regarding double vents is about. I would certainly prefer a "good" Noblet over a "bad" Leblanc, but I think that all other things being equal the Leblanc would be a better bet.
Best regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-15 04:58
>> mine plays so well throughout the entire range that I honestly
>> don't know what all the fuss regarding double vents is about.
Some single register vent bass clarinets polay great and have very good response for any note. The advantage of the second vent come mainly for response of (for example) very specific intervals and sometimes intonation. Response of some notes (by themselves) can also be better but this difference is less significant. There are also some bass clarinets with two vents with poor reponse, intonation, etc. and a good single register vent bass would be much better.
For the price in the original post, you might be able to find an old Buffet or Selmer. I think these are pretty decent instruments and I prefer them to older Leblancs. The new Yamaha 221 student model is also a possibility that IMO you should consider.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-05-15 17:24
I should have rephrased my previous post so as not to appear to be saying that double vent is not an improvement. This thread was about buying options on a budget, and I don't find the lack of a double vent to be a serious hindrance. I should also add that I'm not a bass specialist, and do not have wide experience with a variety of different instruments.
I wouldn't want to argue the relative merits of older Leblanc vs. Buffet vs. Selmer. At even money I would be strongly attracted to either of the later. However, there seem to me to be more Leblancs around at attractive prices.
Best regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-05-15 21:58
I have played a couple of double vented BC and one must be careful that the neck is aligned just so. Otherwise, the clarion register can be a real mess. I believe others have commented on this in previous posts.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-15 22:52
To annotate Hank's post, some bass clarinets (such as the later Kohlerts) have the upper register vent on the (extended-length) upper joint, and a correspondingly shorter plain neck -- thus no alignment problems.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-05-16 01:52
I couldn't agree more, both as to being on top of any leaks an as to the Walter Grabner mouthpiece! Part of the leak issue is to make sure the springs are adequately tensioned. The throat A and side Eb/Bb keys are especially problematic if not held down with enough force.
Best regards,
Jim
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-16 04:32
>> I have played a couple of double vented BC and one
>> must be careful that the neck is aligned just so.
Only if this linkage is designed badly, which it is on some bass clarinets. But some bass clarinets have this linkage designed so the curve of the key matches the body, so the adjustment remains regardless of neck angle. I actually play with a different alignement of the neck and upper joint depending on if I play sitting on standing, and there is never a problem with this linkage. It's also sometimes possible to fix or at least improve a badly designed one.
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-05-17 03:09
So Dave (or anyone) does this mean the 1180 I use is basically a double register design on the body? That would explain the short neck and the huge difference when switching it with my other one ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif) .
Chris (or yet again, anybody with experience with this), on the back of the bottom joint of your L400 is there an extra hole for the low G? Or what is it? And why? I've never heard a bad low A before.
- Martin
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-17 04:26
If I remember, the 1180 has a seperate hole for throat Bb and another for the entire clarion register (someone correct me if this is wrong). This is basically a single register vent, but some of those play great in the entire register (e.g. Yamaha 221).
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-05-17 09:01
Blazian
Not sure what you mean by an extra hole. Might you mean a tone hole for forked Eb?
Chris
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-05-17 13:41
The "extra hole" on the lower joint noted by Blazian is indeed a tone hole for forked low Ab/clarion Eb. Perfectly in tune, I find it a better alternative than the use of a LH Ab/Eb lever. Leblanc only used this technology on their top-of-the-line bass clarinets, so Chris is lucky to have scored this one!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-05-17 13:50
I'm in agreement with CB's and DS's statements-terminology on key structure re: the differences [1 or 2 Register vents] which we call single or double. On my Selmer 33 [about 1970, Eb] the curvature of the "high" vent's actuating mechs is "close" but not exact, so I adjust the neck's position by visually, then playing-wise, checking the closure of the lower vent's pad, rather than trying to tinker with it myself. When it goes to a "skilled shop" that will be discussed. "Working up" my HR Getzen {F B !, single vent}, I found that my Pomarico GG mp was superion to my several other mps, a C*, a Bundy 3 [refaced], and a couple of "no-names" [slightly refaced by me] in achieving a good clarion response and clarity, with a relatively soft reed. Like my Sel, it also has the "doubled" F/C pads, to which I credit my good G&A/ D&E tonalities, as [I believe] is mentioned above. just AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-05-17 14:00
TKS to Larry's observation re: the "forked " Ab/Eb possible on the top Leblancs, I once had a LL model with it, Enjoyed that, but was disappointed with it's clarion, so found a Selmer. Would like to "try again". Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-17 14:21
I'm intrigued by the unanimity here as far as Walter Grabner mouthpieces go - they haven't made it much across the Atlantic as far as I can see. (Or at least not across the Channel as well.)
It seems to me that his soprano clarinet mouthpieces are generally made with a fairly small tip opening - he doesn't seem to offer the wider varieties. Is that true as far as his bass and contra mouthpieces go as well? Only because I mostly play with B40s and the like and that's a possible deterrent as far as trying out his mouthpieces goes.
Yes, I know I could just ask him...
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-05-19 01:40
There are a lot of variables when choosing a setup. For a maker of handmade mouthpieces to provide every possible tip opening would be an impossible task. If you check Walter Grabner's web site you will find a minimum number of varieties. He will tell you "this is a great mouthpiece for xxx purpose and here's a list of reed brands and strengths that are recommended." Similarly, the late David Hite offered a single facing and it was left to the student to find a reed that worked well. When I switched from a Vandoren B44 to the Grabner "Lawrie Bloom" model, I found that the reeds I had been using worked very well - a lot better, of course. But I didn't count on my old reeds and also prepared a few new ones in the range that Walter recommended.
Best regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-05-28 22:34
Oliver said:
<<I'm intrigued by the unanimity here as far as Walter Grabner mouthpieces go - they haven't made it much across the Atlantic as far as I can see. (Or at least not across the Channel as well.)>>
I sell a couple hundred mouthpieces per year in the UK and the rest of Europe. My mouthpieces are stocked by Howarth in London.
<<It seems to me that his soprano clarinet mouthpieces are generally made with a fairly small tip opening - he doesn't seem to offer the wider varieties. Is that true as far as his bass and contra mouthpieces go as well? Only because I mostly play with B40s and the like and that's a possible deterrent as far as trying out his mouthpieces goes.>>
If you are going to talk about me, why not just ask me?
Walter Grabner
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