 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-01-07 20:40
What's the difference between the "german system" and the "boehm system"? Is there any difficulity going between the systems? Is one better than the other?
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2001-01-07 22:00
The Boehm and German systems are different in the fingerings for B, B flat, F and F# in the chalumeau range, because the holes are different sizes. They also have a different set of keys for the little fingers: the German system has 5 keys for the left little finger and only 2 for the right.
The German system is a development of the Albert system. There are other differences besides fingering, the most important being the diameter of the bore. I can't remember whether it is wider or narrower than the Boehm, but it has a different tone, which has been described as "brighter and clearer", while the Boehm tone is "warmer, darker and louder".
Which is better?
Probably neither. They are different. But German is much more expensive because it is only used in Germany and Austria. Boehm is used everywhere else, so it is much more common and as a result less expensive. German clarinets are supposed to play in tune more accurately than Boehm. The Boehm fingering was originally designed to overcome limitations in the Albert system, but a good German clarinet has lots of extras to overcome the same limitations in a different way, so this is no longer an issue.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-07 23:27
Hi, Beth -
What's the difference? - Primarily, the fingering.
Is there any difficulty going back and forth? - Not a lot.
Is one better than the other? - In my opinion, no.
Please allow me to continue....
My primary instrument is the Albert (Oehler - German) system.
I also have played(and still do) the Boehm system. I prefer the German system but that's not to say that it's better. It isn't. That's not to say it's worse either - it isn't.
The fingering is different between the two and they each have advantages and disadvantages in that way - that's an individual matter best decided by the player. I've had no difficulty playing the German system in many different settings, from country/western to symphonic band and orchestra. And, actually, little difficulty switching between the two fingering systems. You have to practice anyway, to play well, so, you can divide your practice time between the two systems while keeping your chops in shape and find out which one you prefer. Rubank Elementary Method has a fingering chart for both systems. I agree with Eoin, I can't say one or the other is 'better'. It depends on the instrument and what you want from it. Some horns are well made, play pretty well in tune and are easy to blow, others are not. There is no perfect musical instrument.
The real difference, in my opinion, is that German (Albert) system horns in use in the USA are vintage instruments(low cost) that either have been well cared for or old ones that may require a lot of fixing up(high cost) to make them okay. You'll have to get one in playing condition to find out if it plays well or is a stinker. I think Yamaha has 'recently' come out with an Oehler system horn that plays very well(expensive).
I have a Moenig Bros., German system horn, that I bought new many years ago (in Germany) and, while not the greatest in craftsmanship (it doesn't rival Buffet by a long shot), plays pretty well. An acquaintance has a Buffet that he wouldn't trade for anything... it's a gem.
ron b
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-01-08 08:28
I switched from German to Boehm system some time ago. I believe, that the Boehm system is easier for beginners. A master may have other problems and of course, the Boehm system has its drawbacks too. I admit that there is not much difference in the long run probably.
Let me explain this.
Before I do, let me state that I do not talk about the bore difference, or the mouthpiece and reed differences. I am playing a Boehm clarinet with a German mouthpiece (Vandoren VD3), which suits me well. And there are German system clarinets with Boehm keying. However, I would love to hear comments on these differences (beware - it has been discussed here before). Another topic is the more compicated structure of the German system, which needs much more metal and tone holes to be in tune, and makes the clarinets more expensive (together with the lower production numbers).
In what follows, I use the notation F, f, f', f'' for the four Fs the clarinet can produce.
The first difference is at Bb (f'), which is easy to play without loosing a good B (f'#). For a beginner, this is much easier. He or she only has to choose between chromatic and ordinary fingering.
The next one is at f, which is a nice simple fingering compared to the side key needed in German system. Again, the f# is still easy, and there is a special chromatic fingering for f / f# /g. Again easier for a beginner.
Then there are the little finger differences. The Boehm system simply repeats the keys for the left and right little finger, which is as simple as can be. Moreover, the keys are easier to reach on the Boehm system. Plus, the b needs only a single key stroke.
The next difference is in the low altissimo range at c#'', d'' and d''#. Those are shorter and thus easier to reach from the c'', which is also easier. Moreover, the forked c'' is somewhat unstable on mediocre clarinets. Going from the side key c'' to the altissimo d'' is a pain on German clarinets. This is needed for the simple b' / c'' / d'' sequence.
One of the best things is the side key throat bb, which I use for long tones. On my German clarinet, there was no similar way to produce a very good bb.
There is also the bridge mechanism for the eb, which I am rarely using, probably due to my start on the German system.
Now to the disadvantages.
For me, the most prominent one was the loss of a simple b / c'# / d' key sequence. In Boehm, you need to press down c'# while releasing b at the time, while the German system allows the successive release of fingers.
Another topic is the bridge mechanism for the eb. This darkens g somewhat, when played with the right tone holes closed (as I was used to on the German clarinet).
I cannot exactly examine the difference in trills, but I believe that both systems have cons and pros here.
Well, I was long thinking about posting this. Of course, I can only view things from the viewpoint of a mediocre player. I would like to hear comments.
Rene
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-08 18:30
Rene -
Your analysis is the most detailed I've ever read here. I don't quite follow you on all points; for one, that the German system has more holes and metal. I find it the other way round. However, I've never given it as much thought in my entire life as you have - I'm glad you wrote it out 
I agree with you that the Boehm is probably the easier one for beginning students - if for no other reason than the right hand finger spread required for the German system is not so severe with a Boehm. I mention it only because others have. I find no problem with it.
I stay away from discussing bore sizes and mouthpieces too. First, I don't know a thing about the bore size topic and, second, I believe that when a person finds a suitable mouthpiece, that's wonderful. I don't have a clue why one mouthpiece, same make and all, will play a little differently than another one 'just like it'. If the setup blows easy, intonation is okay and you get the sound you like... stick with it.
Another striving mediocre player,
ron b
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-08 22:06
ron,
The modern German system (aka Oehler) does have more holes and keys than a Boehm. The older German system (aka Albert) has fewer while the still older Mueller version has fewer still. So you see that one needs to be precise in their time frame when speaking of "German system" clarinets.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-09 03:06
Hi, Dee -
You are correct, I tend to lump them more or less together. I have an Oehler that I've played for years and a couple of Alberts that I like. The Oehler does have more keys (I've never counted the holes), six rings (no thumb ring, of course), four side trill keys, an alternate Gb/Eb and an extra hole at the middle tenon (so's to trill C#/G# like crazy, if you want to I guess, and, and... I better go count 'em :]
Some Boehms look to me like they have an *awful* lotta keys on them :|
The Mueller I have has almost 'no keys'
They're a lot of fun to play - but, I'm glad you corrected me, I need to be more careful (precise) about how I word things. Yeah, the Oehler does have much more 'hardware' than the Alberts. From pictures I've seen I think some modern German system horns have even more keys than my older Oehler. I don't think I could handle that :
Thanks, Dee. I'll try to be more specific in the future.
ron b
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-01-09 05:45
Of course, I was talking about the modern German clarinet. I have seen old ones in books and museums with just three keys (A, register and long E). The players must have been masters of forking and half covered tone holes or restrict the key range somewhat like a recorder player.
Rene
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Author: kenny
Date: 2001-01-09 05:50
In addition to the points mentioned above, I noticed that the modern german system could have somewhere between 17 to 27(?) keys, depending on the model. For the Boehm system, it usually stays around 17 or 18.
Rene
Can I say that a D major scale is much easier on the German system compared to the Boehm system?
Bore design
If I'm not wrong, the German design has a much conical and longer bore compared to the Boehm design. And from what I heard this will result in a clear and focus sound. But I still can't really hear the difference between a professional German player and the Boehm player. you can try to compare any German Orchestras clarinetist to other Orchestras.
Ligerture (spelling??)
Another difference is the ligertures that are used by the German players. I noticed that some of them use strings
Mouthpieces
The German reeds and the mouthpieces are smaller in design compared to the Boehm system.
Hybrid German / French system
There exist a system which is a combination of both the system. the only manufacturer that I know of produces this is Yamaha. Basically this system uses the German style bore with the Boehm fingering system. This hybrid design can be recognised by the German style register key (which wraps around the clarinet body, rather than going straight up from the f' note)
Kenny
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-01-09 12:33
Still no comment on bore dimensions (I just don't know, but would like to).
However, the smaller reed (about 10 vs 12 mm) makes the tone production "heavier" but more focused on the German clarinet. I have this wisdom from Brymers book, which I searched for this information. From my limited experience, I tend to agree. That's why I continue to play on the VD3. However, the B45 e.g. gives much more "sound".
I guess, "much easier" is not the right phrase for the D major scale. I just missed the succeeding finger technique then, but do no longer.
Rene
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-01-09 14:55
I do enjoy the fine discussion of experience above. Probably all of our good books spend several chapters on the features of each system and their development, and they have been written up in many issues of "The Clarinet" [ICA] ,well worth detailed study. The earlyclarinet@e-groups site postings go into great detail by real experts and are worth close attention also. Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-09 20:09
It looks like this thread is about to fizzle out so I want to make a hasty last minute post to it. I counted the holes!!!
Very interesting. While the Boehms (in the little workshop section of my garage) have more keys, the Alberts have more holes. I would have thought it just the opposite, even after years of looking at both from several different angles ! :|
Who'd a thunk it? Well, I didn't.
Not counting the regular finger holes, including thumb and register, I find :
*** The Vito 3, a pretty standard Boehm horn, has 14 (pad stopped) holes.
*** The Prueffer Oehler has 17.
*** The metal Alberts, as well as several wood Alberts, all have 15. ...wellwhattayaknow....
Excuse me while I go make a couple entries in my notebook. [After I soak my head :]]]]
ron b
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Author: Hans de Nijs
Date: 2001-01-09 20:25
Hi Kenny
A small addition to your description about the hybrid clarinet type with a German bore combined with boehm key- work, also called Reform-Boehm. Most of these instruments (E-flat till bass) have an automatic B'-flat mechanism, 5 fork b-flat's in the 2nd register (only the full system), 2nd f#-g# trill, right hand rollers on the c and e-flat keys and an extra venting key for an open d". A lot of details are discussed on this topic on the List in the past.
More small German makers has made this type of interesting clarinets. The most famous ones are made by Fritz Wurlitzer till 1976 and his son Herbert Wurlitzer till 1989. This kind of professional instruments are hand made and unfortunately very expensive. For instance most of the professional Dutch clarinettists are playing this reform-boehm type.
greeting,
Hans
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Author: ken
Date: 2001-01-10 00:02
Hans
Interesting addition to what I've said. But could you explain further what the following means?
"automatic B'-flat mechanism, 5 fork b-flat's in the 2nd register"
I'm still quite confused ?-(
Mouthpiece
From my experience with a VD3 mouthpiece which fits on the french clarinet, it requires more air support compared to the bigger french style mouthpieces. bite too hard onto the mouthpiece and you will just get a thin sound
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-01-10 05:50
Thanks, ken.
You are right. The sound is not as loud, and it takes more embouchure (to rephrase thin and biting :-). However, it is also more focused, a term I cannot really explain. But - maybe - I only have to get used to the B45, and also take stiffer reeds. Experiment continued.
Rene
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-01-10 06:08
To holes and keys:
My Boehm clarinet has 23 holes, 6 rings, 17 operatable keys (no extra left G# key).
The German one has 27 holes, 6 rings, 17 keys too (it has the most common extra keys). To cover the many correction holes, it has a bit more metal on it.
I forgot: The three right hand tone holes are 15 mm further apart, which is the reason for the harder to reach little finger keys.
I appreciate the historical pointers.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-24 17:12
We started talking about this subject on another thread so a little bump might be in order...
I'm about to start an interesting little experiment: I'm a French-system player living in Germany and since I have a little free time with no concerts threatening I'm going to start practising on a pair of German instruments.
Anyone here play on both systems? What surprises do I have in store?
As I mentioned elsewhere, I've been working with period instruments for a bit so I'm used to fork fingerings and a tiny reed...
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-24 19:20
Thanks for finding this thread and waking it up again, Oliver!
I am puzzled by how complex F major is on the Öhler (normal fingerings):
8 fingers down - 7 - 6 - 7 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 0 - 1 - 2 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 7
whereas on the Böhm:
8 fingers down - 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 2 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5
One of the reasons I dislike it is this - much of leaving many down and then taking them all off again.
Yes, Böhm is easier, but why make it more complex when it can be simpler?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-24 20:12
I'm mainly a bass clarinet player so can't help much with the soprano clarinet discussion. I've been a Boehm-system player all my life. I recently started playing a German (Oehler)-system bass clarinet alongside my regular Boehm, so I can make a few comments regarding these two instruments:
- They both sound like bass clarinets(!) yet different, and have a much different feel in terms of response and resistance. The Oehler-system bass clarinet bore is much smaller (around .77") than that of the Boehm-system (around .93"), with corresponding different mouthpieces. The German bass, in fact, is rather similar in bore and mouthpiece dimensions to a Boehm ALTO clarinet.
- Fingering-wise, they are not hugely different but do have some significant differences in a couple of areas. I'm getting to where I have little trouble switching between the two systems, but I would say that the Boehm system has more alternate fingering choices, whereas the Oehler system requires more sliding and fork fingerings. It actually seems to depend on the key of the piece and the particular passage, regarding which fingering system is easier or smoother.
- I really like the Oehler bass sound for chamber groups, it's a smaller, more compact and somewhat more penetrating sound, more like a large soprano clarinet (or basset clarinet/basset horn). The French-system bass sound is more hollow and diffuse, larger but a bit less penetrating -- more 'organ-like'. Really hard to describe sounds with words, I'm afraid.
I like having both instruments available. I'm planning to use the two of them side-by-side in our next orchestral concert, switching depending on the piece. Should be an interesting experiment!
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-24 20:19
David, you mention that the German bass sounds more clarinet-like than the French bass - that is clever for chamber groups, but in your opinion, should a bass be a deep clarinet or an instrument on its own? In my opinion, it should be the latter. The basset horn for example sounds like an instrument on its own, not just a big brother of a clarinet.
:)
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-24 20:27
I find the difference between the bass instruments much more pronounced - I occasionally have to pick guest players for my (contemporary music) ensemble and I'm sorry to say I would rarely go for a German bass clarinet although I would have nothing against playing alongside a German Bb or A.
David, I know where you're coming from as far as chamber music goes - I wouldn't go so far as to change instrument but I certainly use different mouthpieces on my Buffet according to the group and the piece. (Vandoren B40 - B50 - Selmer F - Selmer G, from subtlest to crassest). And as far as I'm concerned this doesn't need to be a soprano instrument discussion! How do you find the German right thumb setup?
I once had to play in a group where there were three bass clarinets: my Buffet and two German ones. The intonation was a HORROR. And it wasn't me.
The adjective I always think of for the German bass clarinet sound is 'oily'...
aero145: I don't have a big problem with the Oehler RH fingerings for F major - after all that's not so far from our LH fingerings for Bb major or our LH fingerings for F major up the top if we use the sliver key (which I thought was normal until I started posting here!).
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-24 20:38
I am not saying the fingerings are problematic, but somehow strange as compared to the Böhm. I will now stop this nonsense but isn’t the Böhm still a ”faster” instrument? The bassoon has got similar fingerings to the Öhler, and IMO the bassoon really is quite awkward. A player I know said he would be the first to change to the new system if a better one would be made.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-24 22:10
The trickiest part of playing Oehlers for me is getting around the Eb-F in the upper part of the lower register.
On full Boehms I can take Eb as xox|ooo and F with the thumb only, but on Oehlers the forked Eb isn't by any means a great note (though xox|ooo produces a gorgeous Bb in the upper register and likewise oxo|ooo for the C compared to the open C on Boehms) and I find sliding between the side Eb and F keys awkward - just something I've never had to do before though I'm sure that'll get easier with familliarity.
I prefer playing Brahms on an Oehler than a Boehm as the tonal quality of certain notes seems to add something to the richness of the music that I don't find with Boehms. Could just be a psychological thing, but it's still something.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-24 23:30
Chris:
I haven’t played very much of Öhler, so I’m not sure if it works, but nevertheless; can’t one use the same fingering as for the high C for the Eb-F jump?
xx,o|ooo to oxo|ooo
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-05-25 00:40
I'll answer that............NO.
The Eb performed that way in NOT in tune. It needs to be the side key (second from the bottom) with the throat "E" fingering, so you need to slide up from the first side key going from "Eb."
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: rgr
Date: 2009-05-25 06:01
I am the poster "Rene" on this ancient thread. I lost my password over the years.
I just like to point out some difference between the systems which is important for beginners, esp. young beginners. The German system is much longer in the lower section. I.e., to produce E/h you need to spread your fingers wider. This adds another point of troubles to the thumb problems that beginners tend to have. I was told about this from young kids who were forced to switch to the German system. In the elementary music schools we have several teachers from eastern countries playing Boehm. But the conservatoirs and consequeently the high schools are all German.
BTW, note that the side key for the throat Bb is not available on the German system. You need to use the short Bb, which I find weaker and less in tune.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-25 08:35
Paul, I stared at your post for a while before I realised you meant that it's the cross-fingered f' that's not in tune... (at least I hope that's what you meant or I'm still confused!)
Another problem for young hands as I understand it is the fork fingerings, isn't it? - especially for low Bb (x/xxx/xox) and... er... even more especially (sorry) on the A clarinet. It's surely one of the very fine things about the French system that it does away with fork fingerings completely. And the Klosé/Buffet patent was in 1843! - before even the Boehm flute reached its final form.
Having said that the cross-fingered high c'' Rx/oxo/ooo on the Oehler is supposed to be a lovely thing (and I look forward to finding out!) compared with 'our' sometimes brittle-sounding Rx/ooo/ooo as Chris P mentioned...
(One of the reasons I don't like calling the French system 'Boehm' - not only did Boehm have nothing to do with it, but he was Carl Baermann's colleague in the Munich court orchestra and thus had just as direct an influence on the German clarinet as developed in the late nineteenth century by Baermann/Pentenrieder/Ottensteiner.
Gripping, I know.)
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-26 19:46
Well, so I spent a couple of hours (which I didn't really have) this afternoon unable to tear myself away from a pair of F.A. Uebel full-Oehlers...
The owner says I can hang on to them as long as I like since he doesn't use them at all. I have a feeling I might be making him an offer involving folding stuff at some point!
I don't really know where to start in my doubtless half-a... er... half-baked observations. (Maybe if anyone's interested in knowing stuff I don't mention then they can sing out?)
The Eb-F above middle C issue: I don't find the slide to be too tricky, for example in the Brahms second sonata first movement where it slides around f'- e'b- d' for a while - if you're on the Eb you can turn the finger a bit to hit the F, if you're on the F you can slide. At very worst you can get R2 to the Eb key - I'm guessing it's that long for a reason!
The so-called fork e'b isn't one, at least not on these instruments - it's about as in tune as playing the same note x/xoo/xoo on a French clarinet. f' with the cross fingering is also dreadful.
The stretch for the RH fingers is _big_. My hands aren't enormous but they aren't small and for me it's not yet entirely comfortable.
I don't find the lack of the side throat b'b a problem - the holes for the throat notes are a bit bigger than on French instruments I think and the pinch b'b with a couple of resonance fingers sounds just fine. On the other hand I have to be very careful for throat A that my finger doesn't touch the G#! The keys aren't joined on the German instrument so you really need to hit one or the other...
Slurs involving c'#/g''# and other LH little finger notes are not much fun. To do something like the a''b - b' slur in the Schumann fantasy pieces you have to put the LH little finger on both keys and then slide it off for the B. Now I can see how they got the idea to have the LH little finger on the sax work the way it does. I have no idea yet how the stuff with all the sharps near the beginning of the Brahms F minor finale is going to work...
But the main thing is: that warm creamy sound. That legato. For a lot of pieces it's going to be hard to go back. I've messed about with period instruments before and when it's worked there's been a lovely realisation that this music really was written for these instruments. With these Oehlers I suppose it was the other way round: the instruments were built to play this music. Still, a similarly lovely feeling.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-26 20:01
Legato low E-F#-G# and upper B-C#-D# on Oehlers (and others with the 'Patent C#) is a doddle as the E-F# and B-C# is done by playing E/B and then lifting the RH pinky off for the F#/C#, and that finger is then free for the G#/D#. This makes for a much better low E-F# and upper B-C# trill than can be done on Boehms (unless you've got a full Mazzeo Selmer with articulated F#/C# as on oboes and saxes).
For playing lower register RH G-A-Bb repeated and upper D-E-F repeated is best done with the LH F key to make a smooth legato instead of sliding RH3 off the F key to cover RH3 tonehole or flip fingering to get the forked Bb/F.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-26 20:22
Ollie, it seems you got old Uebels - the new ones have the A/G# joined like the Klosés.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-26 20:24
Still, if you want to play e-f#-g# / b'-c''#-d''# repeated, you have to slide whatever system you're on (and at least if it's slow on a French clarinet you can swap fingers!).
The 'patent' c''# isn't quite as good as the normal fingering - I suggested it once to a clarinettist as a possibility for the Bolero solo and was roundly ticked-off!
Yes, the "F-Heber" (a little key in between the long E and F# keys for L4) is pretty important for low g-a-bb and its overblown equivalent. Mühlfeld had it! Rather useful in the F minor sonata.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-26 21:35
The Bolero solo is where the 'Patent C#' is ideal. I wonder why the clarinettist you suggested it to was opposed to it?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-26 21:44
I'll have to ask him! My impression was that using it in Hans Deinzer's class in Hannover would be enough to earn one a stern rebuke.
It's not quite the same sound is it? I tried it this afternoon and thought not. I'd try it again now except my neighbours would object...
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Author: rgr
Date: 2009-05-27 06:25
One of the things I found tremendously difficult on the French system (Ok, not the Boehm) was to play b-c#-d in legato (upper register). This is about the only thing that is easier on the German clarinet.
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2009-05-27 08:39
here are my 2 ct:
I am playing german clarinet for 35 years and Boehm for 9 years. My opinion:
-fingering: both systems have their advantages, for me, overall i think the boehm is more elegant because its simpler and has usually less holes in the wood body, both systems have their scales and combinations which work better than on the other system
-instruments: usually german clarinets are much more expensive and professionels use hand made instruments instead of fabric instruments
- sound: i think, the reason for most of the differences is the player and the embouchure and the reed/mp-combo. I am used to german facings and reeds and struggled around with Boehm-reeds and standard Boehm-mps ( Selmer, vandoren...) which gave a very direct, loud and strident and thin sound for me. THerefore I use on both instruments Zinner mps with Viotto german G3 Facing and German Vandoren reeds. This gives a very different sound on the Boehm compared with Vandoren-mps. When I compare the German and the Boehm-mp ( different chamber wall angles but same facing), the germen mp gives more resistance and the sound flows on a cushion, whereas the french chamber gives a more direct clear sound. With the same mp/reed-setup I think, that German clarinets have more resistance, the sound is a little more coevered and compact than standard Boehm clarinets, which give a sound ahich is more clear and direct but more resonant ( for me). But I tried a Selmer Signature and I think that some modern Boehm clarinets approach a little bit the german bore design , the sound goes in this direction ( and ... of course the low e is to flat without correction...)...
- Bass: I own a Buffet 1193-2 ( Pomarico 2, with Rico GCS 4): THe sound of the boehm bass is much larger nad has more volume than the german bass, whereas the german bass sounds ( for me ) like a large bassett horn , both have their advantages. The bassett range is for me on the boehm bass more elegant than the german bassett range, because you have much more possibilities for fingereings. The german bass clarinets are very expensive, because there are nearly no fabric instruments, the good german bass clarinets are handmade...
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-27 14:50
I've recently been able to enlarge the sound of my German-system bass clarinet by adapting a Boehm-system alto clarinet mouthpiece to fit the instrument (an F. Arthur Uebel, by the way). The external dimensions and table length and width of the alto clarinet mouthpiece were fine as-is, but I had to bore out the mouthpiece considerably (requiring the grafting of a completely new tenon).
With this cobbled-together mouthpiece I can use regular Vandoren French-type alto clarinet reeds, and the resulting sound more closely approximates that of a good Boehm-system bass clarinet. Plenty of volume is available while retaining the nice 'center' at quiet dynamic levels. Although the setup is reasonably dark-sounding, it's still a bit more "bassett-hornish" than the Boehm bass. Blends great with the soprano clarinets.
Going to play a couple of orchestra concerts (which will be recorded) on the German bass/alto clarinet mouthpiece combination these next two weekends; and since "the tape never lies" I'll have a better idea thereafter of how it all sounds to the audience.
Experimenting is fun! Only the audience suffers. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-27 15:00
Interesting to hear about this, David! Would be nice if this is *the* thing for the Öhler basses! :-)
Ciao
D
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-27 15:18
I'm sure there is a huge untapped commercial market for modified alto clarinet mouthpieces on Oehler-system bass clarinets. I'm prepared to give my daytime employer notice today, so that I can devote all my time to gearing up for mass production of these highly-desirable products for the vast, eager hordes of affluent clarinetists with spare change burning holes in their pockets.......... ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
Danke for the kind words nonetheless, D! I shall report back in a couple of weeks. (Have to be careful as I'm still in hiding from the dreaded Buffet Mafia.)
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-28 16:24
I didn't realise the Uhl studies were so hard...
So in study 1, book 1 there's a bar with three notes in it. c'# - f# - c'#, dotted crotchet - quaver - minim, all slurred.
The only way I can do that is by playing the c'# with L4 on the C# key and the low E key, then rolling L4 off the C# to play f# as x/xxxE/xxx (using the 'patent C#', or as they call it the H/Cis-Mechanik), then lifting the RH fingers while rolling back again. I can't put my little finger further down the C# key because my finger's too long.
Is this what real Oehler players do (and it just needs a lot of practice)? Or do I need to work out how to reach the L4 C# and F# keys at the same time? Or is there another trick I haven't found yet?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-28 16:32
The more I play my Oehler-system bass and soprano clarinets, the more I'm convinced they require extra joints in one's fingers to play them smoothly.
Seriously though, I have a theory that perhaps Boehm-system players are conditioned to avoid at all costs sliding between keys, and to a lesser degree to avoid forked fingerings; whereas in playing Oehlers these two techniques seem to be unavoidable and perfectly routine. I'm hoping that when I get past my reluctance to do these things, playing the Oehlers will feel natural.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-28 18:42
One of the things Klosé and Buffet were most proud of was eliminating the fork fingerings of course. I'm not conditioned to avoid them, it's just that I as good as never need them for semitones on French-system clarinets.
At the moment I honestly can't think of an exception, unless it's for intonation or tremolos... OK, chromatic bb and f''#, high e'''b. Of course I use them when I play quarter-tones, which is probably more often than most people need to. On the Oehlers I have the right hand fork fingering is particularly wide - as I said above, I have largish hands and it's uncomfortable. (I mean fork in the strict sense of first and third fingers though - maybe David you use it more generally?) Fork fingering are anything but ergonomic anyway - the middle and ring fingers are not completely independent, that's a physical reality.
Sliding is still part of French-system technique though - if there's a choice we'll avoid it, but some of the French tutors do deal with the subject. (The Jeanjean Vade mecum for example, in the right hand study: f''# - d''# - b' -slide!- g''# - f''# - d''# - b -slide!- g''#...)
When I first went to Jochen Seggelke to try out some of his period instruments my lack of fork training was very obvious. His comment was 'ha, du bist noch nicht eingegabelt!'. A lovely word, no? 'You're not forked-in yet.'
Many hours of recorder and period-clarinet practice later, forking on the Oehlers is the least of my worries.
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-28 18:53
Ollie - I grew up using a clarinet with Full-Klosé low-range keys, and there you never have to slide!
„ha, du bist noch nicht eingegabelt!” LOL did he really say that?!
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-28 20:04
He certainly did say that.
Never have to slide? OK, Pictures at an Exhibition, first bar of Gnomus, off you go...
(d'b-f-e-d'b, no? I think that's right, I seem to have lost my score...)
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The Clarinet Pages
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![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
