 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-06 11:36
Hi, everybody
I just discovered this *great* site and I've too many questions, I'll try to choose some, delaying the others.
I'm a mid-aged beginner and I don't want to get from playing the clarinet anything more than just fun (well, a lot of it!). I started 3 months ago buying a second hand cheap clarinet (orsi), just to see if I was able to get *any* sound of it, bought a "do it yourself" metod and just started blowing. two months ago I decided to start being thought and joined one of the city music schools, a month ago the old orsi started to leak from different pads and so I bought a brand new Buffet RC which is the subjet of the many questions, I just reported my story hoping it can be useful for the answers.
1) the tenons are really hard, asked my teacher, she told me just to use lot of grease... that worked ok (quite) till last friday after having played a lot... maybe 4 hours... I wasn't able anymore with all my force (I used to climb montains) to pull out the barrel from the left hand joint... finally I did it by inserting little by little the blade of a knife in the separation, but I was scared to death... saturday morning the barrel went without problem into the upper joint so I deduced that the problem should be the swelling of the wood... then I brougth it to a repair shop and asked for advice... surprisingly I was told that only the tenon between left hand and right hand joints needs to be "trimmed" ... should I trust this shop? I'm really scared that the pressure of the swallen tenon cracks the barrel... ok I know that it's pretty new and I should have played it less... but... anyway, now the orsi is being repaired so in a few days I should take a decision on what to do
2) I'm using the original buffet embochure, yes my teacher told me that it isn't any good but I spent already much, but I wonder if by using that for some other month I could take some "bad habit" or I just get worser sound
3) I tried the intonation with the sound blaster and specrum analysis softwre and I found that every note, but the throat register, is tuned for 445 Hz A (with very small deviations 0-5 cents). I've read in this bulletin that european RC (I live in italy) are tuned to 442 Hz (what for???) and I'm wondering if it can be me or the instrument that gives the extra 3 Hz. Are there any remedies for that: longer barrel... if I leave 3 mm gap between upper joint and barrel I get 440 (cold... increasing a little after playing), special embochures, whatever?
4) the throat register is a question on its own: from F# to Bflat all the tones are sharp (referred to 445 Hz) by something like 15-25 cent, now again ... It's me or the clarinet? suggestions?
Ok, I realize that I'm writing a poem, so I stop here
bye, uliano
PS beg your pardon for my english ...
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-11-06 12:24
>I'm using the original buffet embochure
I think you mean "mouthpiece." You might be better off with another mouthpiece.
As for the intonation, we have an expression here: "it's better to be sharp than out of tune." I would suggest that you wait until you have a different mouthpiece before being concerned that your barrel is too short. If you're pulling out too much, you may ask your local dealer for some "tuning rings," which fill the gap between the upper joint tenon and the barrel and minimizes the distortion of the throat notes.
I think that a Buffet Clarinet should be "broken in" gradually.
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-06 12:55
>I think you mean "mouthpiece."
right, you're right...
>You might be better off with another mouthpiece.
suggestions? I'm so novice that I'm not sure that, even trying, I feel the difference by now...
> I think that a Buffet Clarinet should be "broken in" gradually.
so your suggestion is "don't play it as long as to have the wood swell until the break in is finished and, only then consider sanding the tenons"?
seems reasonable to me but this leads me to the question: how long is the break in period?
thanks, uliano
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-11-06 13:08
In addition to perhaps needing a different mouthpiece, here is some information about pitch standards. Clarinets are built to be "in tune" in a room that is at 20°C (68°F). If the room is warmer, it will play sharp and you will need to pull at the barrel slightly. The warmer the room, the more you will need to pull.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-11-06 14:33
I started up the same way as you have, about a year ago. To play at the same tuning with other people will be essential, in about 6 months. This presumes you want to join a chamber/Dixieland/orchestra or something similar.
For now, the important parts are clearly intonation and breath control. Clarinets are notorious for being roughly in tune through their registers. It will likely improve as your study progresses. It will never be perfect (nature of the beast).
Being a little sharp won't hurt, especially if you ever play with strings. They seem to play sharper as the session goes on.
Four hours at a stretch might be pressing your luck... the break in of horns is detailed on this site, generally a 30 minute period followed by disassembly and rest works well.
I suffer from wrist strain, brought on by too much playing, too soon. Do be careful, the right thumb carries alot of weight when playing.
Take the lessons of a music center for what they're worth, a teacher from a local college or orchestra will have more to offer. I like one hour lesson every two weeks. Your mileage may vary.
It may seem like an extravagance, but a return visit to the repair shop to align all the pads to proper clearance may be in order. This regulation is actually critical to making the easiest possible horn. Consider it a necessary expense. It should be included in the first 90 day warantee.
When the repair shop eventually looks over your horn, they may recommend fresh pads and cork, in the USA this will cost between $100.00 and $200.00. Your shop should charge accordingly. Cork that is initially tight will compress over time.
It should never take great force to join the sections. At most, a light sanding (320 grit) of the cork will reduce the diameter.
There are too many mouthpiece combinations to sort out at the beginning.
Take a poll of players in the area and see what they recommend for a starting rig, this may be quickly replaced as you progress, but it is important to be able to play with some facility. I like the pads that go on top of the MPC, this makes for a
more comfortable session.
I recommend the Legere composite reed for beginners, as it removes a frustrating obstacle to learning... it will not change performance with humidity. There is nothing like a good piece of cane, but when the weather changes, results can be unpredictable. Always play your best reed at the lesson.
Always break the horn down for storage after playing, this avoids the tenon lock you have described. Next time, hold the barrel in your hand for 20-30 minutes, your body heat should be enough to help the barrel expand. Using anything in the joint between sections is a bad practice to avoid.
I'm especially sympathetic to the plight of middle- and older aged folks who take up an instrument. You should be commended for the nerve it takes to try something new. I only hope you find it as rewarding as I.
Feel free to contact me directly if you need specific recommendations.
This site is a treasure trove of information for the beginning player, simply search any phrase of interest and review the findings.
Best of luck,
Anji
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-11-06 14:53
First of all your english is great. i wish i could say the same for mine and i was born here.
welcome aboard. There are a lot of folks here that have just started or returned to the clarinet who would call you YOUNG.
many of us have had the same problems that you are running into. Take the horm apart after a session and dry it out well and let it air dry. With my Selmer if I let it sit to long I need help getting the bell off.
We all start off setting our goals too low. You are now getting to the point of raising your goals of just having fun to getting more involved. This means you are making progress. So reset your goals and have more fun.
Welcome to the board.
Bob
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-06 16:42
uliano guerrini wrote:
> Steve wrote
> > I think that a Buffet Clarinet should be "broken in"
> gradually.
>
> so your suggestion is "don't play it as long as to have the
> wood swell until the break in is finished and, only then
> consider sanding the tenons"?
>
> seems reasonable to me but this leads me to the question: how
> long is the break in period?
It's right there on your Buffet care guide!
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-11-06 16:50
Yikes! Separating the joint by wedging a knife in between them is never a good idea. It's a good way of chipping and damaging the wood. Also with little trouble, a good repair tech can fix the joints so they do not stick. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: THE Big J
Date: 2000-11-06 22:48
LOL I'm jealous I can't believe you could afford an RC buffet clarinet and your just a beginner! I've been playing 6 years (and doing quite well if I do say so myself) on a crappy plastic Vito horn, and I am now just getting a nice used R13 clarinet. Well just thought I'd tell you how lucky you really are. It has does not pertain to your questions.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-07 03:10
I think too much is made of loooong practice sessions. I think it is best with everything to do to little, and quit while you are still "hungry". On the other hand, I don't think you could play too often. Play as often as you can. Try doing a 5 minute practice session. Before you start, have your goal for the practice session firmly in mind. Then play with real intensity. You only have 5 minutes you know!
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-07 06:06
>It's right there on your Buffet care guide!
which one? serously, the only piece of paper I got is only an authenticity certificate
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-07 06:19
bob gardner wrote:
>
> First of all your english is great.
you're only too kind... but I confess I spent 6 months in Maryland three years ago
> With my Selmer if I let it sit to long I
> need help getting the bell off.
This sounds strange to me, I thougt that swelling is due to moisture and heat of the breath and these shuold affect much more the upper joints
> We all start off setting our goals too low. You are now
> getting to the point of raising your goals of just having fun
> to getting more involved. This means you are making progress.
> So reset your goals and have more fun.
Indeed it is true that I'm making progress, but it has to be seen where the starting point was... I've a lot of "non strictly horn related" things to learn (e.g. read music real time and, most important of all, feel te beat and play on time) but in a way you're right: I tought to need much more time to progress so I just set the same basic goals earlier
> Welcome to the board.
thank you very much
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-07 06:31
THE Big J wrote:
>
> LOL I'm jealous I can't believe you could afford an
> RC buffet clarinet and your just a beginner!
It's only a priority problem, I got the RC for $1350 which is a bit more than a month wage, this means to me (and kind wife) less cinema, theatre and restaurant for a while.
When I went to the shop I considered also a Buffet E13 for about $900, I knew that, by now, the E13 was much more than enough for my level, but I wanted to be optimistic so I hope to have saved the money I'd have needed for the change in the future. Anyway if we are not indulgent whith ourself in our hobbies I really don't know when we should be
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-07 06:36
Nate Zeien wrote:
>
> Separating the joint by wedging a knife in
> between them is never a good idea. It's a good way of chipping
> and damaging the wood.
beginners luck! I knew that when I did, but I was so upset...
I swear I never do it anymore!
> Also with little trouble, a good repair
> tech can fix the joints so they do not stick.
and so be it, I decided
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-07 06:55
Ken Rasmussen wrote:
>
> I think too much is made of loooong practice sessions.
Well, maybe I shoud have been more precise, when I said 4 hours I didn't mean playing continuosly, simply I can't do it.
I play 10 min then rest 5 then play 5 rest 10 and so on... only having been lazy I didn't disassemble the horn in between
yesterday I changed startegy: played (discontinuosly) 3 hours disassembling drying and letting rest 15 min the horn 3 times in between: it worked much better even if a little stiffer than cold I could remove the barrel whithout touching the upper joint keys
> I
> think it is best with everything to do to little, and quit
> while you are still "hungry".
mhhhh... I'm overweght 20 pounds... should think about it
> Try doing
> a 5 minute practice session. Before you start, have your goal
> for the practice session firmly in mind. Then play with real
> intensity. You only have 5 minutes you know!
I don't know, maybe this is a good strategy for more advanced players... my goal by now is "learn to tap the feet while playing and play on time the whole piece" this tapping is a sort of multi-tasking that my brain hardly can do so I find myself:
A) loosing the time when breathing
B) loosing the time whith no apperent reason
C) playing (on time) the wrong note
D) squeaking on an easy note
so what I do is play, play again, and again, and again... little by little I feel the improvments but it takes me days or weeks to play a tune (almost) correctly
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-07 08:13
Anji wrote:
> To play at the same tuning with other people will be essential,
> in about 6 months.
well, mabe even later... who knows...
> This presumes you want to join a
> chamber/Dixieland/orchestra or something similar.
my wife used to play violin when she was a child and I have a friend who played piano we simply tought that we could enjoy playing toghther... this is a stimulating challange to me 'couse I have weak sense of rithm
anyway while the violin is easy to tune the piano is not...
> For now, the important parts are clearly intonation and breath
> control.
yeah, breath control, I realize how big is this issue, however by now I gave it less importance than playing on time, I'm struggling with the metronome (correct word?) and with the tapping of foot.
> Being a little sharp won't hurt, especially if you ever play
> with strings. They seem to play sharper as the session goes on.
actually I only played with wife's violin but she tuned it with the horn so we didn't noticed anything
> Four hours at a stretch might be pressing your luck... the
> break in of horns is detailed on this site, generally a 30
> minute period followed by disassembly and rest works well.
I read it... maybe I've been quite hard with mine ... more or less I doubled the plaiyng time reccomanded in there and it worked... anyway nothing is said on how long the break in shoud be ..
Four hours are not to be understood "continuously playing" (I have a lot of rest) but I realize that forgetting to disassemble and dry the blessed thing in the rests (I always did it before) has been a big mistake
> I suffer from wrist strain, brought on by too much playing, too
> soon. Do be careful, the right thumb carries alot of weight
> when playing.
mhhh now that you make me focus on that... my thumb is aching from time to time (not necessarly when I play)
> Take the lessons of a music center for what they're worth, a
> teacher from a local college or orchestra will have more to
> offer. I like one hour lesson every two weeks. Your mileage
> may vary.
well maybe musical education is orgainzed different way in Italy: we have music schools "conservatorio" which are devoted only to classic music and are very *hard* and selective (means you go there if you hope to became a pro) and then city bands (tried unsuccessfully when I was 12 and hope their pedagogiy got better since then) and then city funded schools and private teachers: NOTHING really nothing! in both high schools and univeristies
I choose the city school for many reasons... at that time I didn't even know whether I could learn anything... with $250 I have 45 min a week individual clarinet lesson 1h a week collettive music reading 1h a week playing percussions (just to improve my rithm sense) from sept to june... after june I should look around and decide wether to go on there or pay a private teacher
> It may seem like an extravagance, but a return visit to the
> repair shop to align all the pads to proper clearance may be in
> order. This regulation is actually critical to making the
> easiest possible horn. Consider it a necessary expense. It
> should be included in the first 90 day warantee.
mhh... they didn't told me anything of the sort... actually my instrument is covered by a 1 year "replace the joint, crack only" warranty
> It should never take great force to join the sections. At
> most, a light sanding (320 grit) of the cork will reduce the
> diameter.
I don't think it's the cork but the wood of the tenon that swells and makes friction against the wood of the barrel
> I like the pads that go on top of the MPC, this
> makes for a
> more comfortable session.
I'm forced to use it bacause one of my upper central teeth is broken and really sharp... no MPC can stand this blade... I'm also considering a prothesis because the MPC can't stay horizzontal in the center of the mouth but is a little on the left and a little tilted (5-10 degrees)
> I'm especially sympathetic to the plight of middle- and older
> aged folks who take up an instrument. You should be commended
> for the nerve it takes to try something new. I only hope you
> find it as rewarding as I.
I don't know about you, by now I can describe my feelings only as entusistic, let's see if it's going to last
I wanted to play clarinet when I was a child, unfortunately I gave it up after 3 months of only reading music (no playing at all) in the city band, then high school, other interests, university, PhD, struggle to find a job (not as easy as in US)... time passed away... now that I'm finally settled... I found to have quite a bit of free time and I re-discovered the interests I had when I was young... this makes me feel young again and happy
> Feel free to contact me directly if you need specific
> recommendations.
really kind of you, thanks
> This site is a treasure trove of information for the beginning
> player, simply search any phrase of interest and review the
> findings.
I'm seeing... maybe too much for me... I'm forcing to be careful and try to avoid articles for more advanced students that can risk distracting me from my basic but fundamental tasks of learing from the foundations
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-11-07 11:10
uliano guerrini wrote:
>
>... my goal by now is "learn to tap the feet while
> playing and play on time the whole piece" this tapping is a
> sort of multi-tasking that my brain hardly can do so I find
> myself:
> A) loosing the time when breathing
> B) loosing the time whith no apperent reason
> C) playing (on time) the wrong note
> D) squeaking on an easy note
> so what I do is play, play again, and again, and again...
> little by little I feel the improvments but it takes me days or
> weeks to play a tune (almost) correctly
Often the biggest problem that adult beginners have is to learn to be patient with themselves. They are used to learning things and expect to learn to play an instrument quickly. It takes much longer than adults expect it to. As you are finding out, there are a lot of things that you must learn to coordinate. So don't get discouraged. It sounds like your progress is pretty normal. These are typical problems that every beginner faces.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-07 11:42
You were supposed to get a care guide. The Buffet web site has the instructions somewhere on it, too.
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-11-07 12:46
Dee wrote:
> Often the biggest problem that adult beginners have is to learn
> to be patient with themselves. They are used to learning
> things and expect to learn to play an instrument quickly. It
> takes much longer than adults expect it to.
To tell the truth I'm progressing quickier than I expected at the beginning, maybe (for sure!) this is due to the low expectancies I had, I always thougth to be quite musically under-gifted, now my theacher is succeding to make me realize that I'm absolutely normal
> So don't get discouraged.
never! life is long ... I'm not in a hurry... more, I think that the learning process itself is fun and instructive, I'm learning a lot about me, my body, my brain, my coordination, not only music
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-11-08 00:44
This post is reminding me of a great quote I heard from a friend:
"I have a long way to go, but I'm further than I was yesterday, and even further from the day before. But I will never perfect any instrument. That's why music so much fun."
I know it's a little off topic, I just thought it was very inspirational.
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