 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Samuel
Date: 2009-05-21 13:07
I have been playing the clarinet since 1995. I have been playing on a Buffet Crampon E 13. I am at a point where I think buying a new clarinet would be best. My question is: What clarinet do you recommend I get? I am looking for a professional instrument. I have asked my teacher about a new clarinet, she recommends the Buffet Crampon prestige or Buffet Crampon Festival. I was thinking to myself about a Selmer Signature or the Buffet Crampon Prestige.
Three important 'rules':
1. Brand: Selmer, Buffet or Leblanc. I don't like the excotic brands from Italy or England.
2. Budget 3000 Euro (3800 Dollar)
3. It should be possible to play various styles on the clarinet.
What clarinet do you recommend?
Thanks for Your Input!
Friendly Regards from the Netherlands!
Samuel
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2009-05-21 14:21
Buffet--try as many of each model as you have available & select the one that plays best for you. With a good Buffet, anything is possible. If you don't have the luxury of having access to try a lot of clarinets, perhaps giving Lisa's Clarinet Shop a call. She regularly travels to the Buffet facility in Florida and selects clarinets she considers superior. Lisa is a sponser of this clarinet site and helped me select my excellant Buffet Prestige 1193-2 bass clarinet. You will pay a bit more for her help, but (IMHO) it is worth every extra dollar or euro.
http://www.lisasclarinetshop.com/
FWIW, I also own and occassionally play a great set of Leblanc Concerto clarinets, but prefer to play my Buffet R13s (A & Bb) because they allow me more musical flexability--range of dynamics, projection, depth of sound, etc.
Post Edited (2009-05-21 14:30)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-05-21 14:34
You have a teacher who recommends certain clarinets. I would follow the advice of someone who knows your playing well, as opposed to asking for advice from strangers who have never heard you play, and whom you've never heard play.
Chris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-21 15:18
You can play whatever clarinet you like in concert bands - but if you're doing a lot of outdoor playing, get a plastic clarinet for that so you don't have to play your good wooden clarinet in the rain or snow as concert bands usually pick the worst weather conditions for outdoor concerts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2009-05-21 15:47
Hi Samuel,
There are a lot of differences between Festival, RC Prestige and Signature but all three are great instruments! I would prefer Festival or RC Prestige for concert band as there are problably more Buffet players in there. The Signature might be too soft. But this is personal of course.
The only way to know what you like best is to try them. Play as many Buffets, Selmers and Leblancs as you can. Play instruments from other people in concert band and visit music stores that have these instruments in store.
Happily enough there are some splendid stores in the Netherlands.
But always involve your teacher in the process. You may have different opinions and musical taste but a good teacher should be able to help you anyhow.
When you are ready to purchase an instrument ask your teacher to join you. Or ask the store for some trial or return option. Don't do it all alone.
Jeroen
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-05-21 16:05
Samuel -
Unless you're the first chair player in the band, it's more important to blend into the section than to sound like a soloist.
When I was in the West Point Band and studied with Alexander Williams, he said he knew immediately that I was a band player. He said that I would need to develop a completely different, soloistic sound and approach to the instrument for orchestral and solo work.
I think that for band playing, your E-13, with a good mouthpiece and barrel and pads that seal tight, will be indistinguishable from a "professional" instrument.
Also, a Selmer Signature, Buffet Festival or Leblanc Opus or Concerto will probably cost more than your €3000 limit.
My advice is to get a hand-made mouthpiece and barrel and save up for a top quality clarinet.
To play in varying styles, the difference is 5% the instrument and 95% your way of blowing and thinking. For pop work, just get a $27 Brilhart Ebolin mouthpiece, which makes the right sound more easily. http://shop.weinermusic.com/BRILHART-EBOLIN-Bb-CLARINET-MOUTHPIECE-MODEL-BE201/productinfo/MBR1BE/
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-05-21 16:47
Just to point it out then you can't say I'm going to try out Buffet Prestige and Festival clarinets as Festival is just one of the models offered in the Prestige range. RC and R-13 are both available in Prestige version but Vintage and Festival are only available in Prestige version.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-21 17:01
Gaman að sjá þig hér, Stebbi!
I’m not a fan of Buffet’s Greenline, but I think you, Samuel, should consider those. That is, the R13. It costs around $2,500 in the States, so I would expect it to cost 2,500€ in the Netherlands (crazy pricing on instruments in Europe!).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Samuel
Date: 2009-05-21 18:14
There are price agreements for Buffet according to a dealer in the Netherlands. It's forbidden to sell them at low prices, they lost almost their dealership!
@ Ken Shaw: the prices are lower in the Netherlands, about 2800/2900 for a signature/rc prestige/festival. I have a good mouthpiece, i have been using a Viotto B3, a famous mouthpiece in the Netherlands, my teacher uses the same.
"To play in varying styles, the difference is 5% the instrument and 95% your way of blowing and thinking"
This Is Very True!!!!
I go together with my teacher and I take her advice very seriously! She is an expert!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-21 19:09
So how much do the Greenline instruments cost? Have you checked it out? If the Signature only costs 2900€ then I would expect an R13 GL to cost less.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Samuel
Date: 2009-05-21 19:18
We are speaking about different instruments: RC Greenline is about 2000 Euro. RC Prestige/Festival about 2900 (Euro's). (I haven't seen R13 in any pricelist, i believe (but correct me if i'am wrong) the r13 is only sold in the USA.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-21 20:41
Sorry, somehow read that you wanted something you could use outside.
I think you should just try out the Signature and the Prestiges. IMO you should also try the Recital.
I’d personally go for the Recital or the Signature, but that’s probably just because I find the Selmers feel better and sound better. Of course the player matters the most, but that’s another thing in this subject, or is it?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-21 21:14
Samuel,
Go to Paris! The extra choice you'll have will make up for the travel and who knows, you might even get a lower price if the retailers in NL are forced to keep their prices up.
Don't miss trying a Festival as well if you're going to try a Prestige. (Say I.)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-05-22 13:25
If I were to play soprano in "my" concert/comm band, I would play my Selmer CT [1954] or a fine Noblet ?40?. A good cl f[r]iend who dearly loves Buffets [has 2 good ones] was very pleased with my Nob, and said that my "tweak" work was V G, TKS, John . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-05-23 00:46
In my concert band, I currently play a Ridenour Lyrique. Tom Ridenour was the head designer of clarinets for Leblanc for a number of years, and developed the Opus and Concerto models. The Lyrique costs around US $1000 and plays very nicely. An added plus is that it is made of hard rubber, so there is no worry about wood cracking. This makes it a great horn for all climates.
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JWBLennon
Date: 2009-05-23 01:10
I understand I am new to clarinets as in I do not even own one yet. I have though played trumpet,trombone baritone and tuba since I was 11 year old and before that Guitar and percusion.... So I have been around a lot of musicians so bear with me..... What is wrong with your E-13 I have read a lot of good things about them and they seem popular? Is their a particular sound you are goig for that you cannot seem to make on your current clarinet?
With lip-reed instruments ie brass winds like trumpet for instance we can change the mouthpiece and the pipe that it slides into "leadpipe" and often end up with a drasticly different sounding trumpet. Can you not try other barrels or bells and different pothpiece and reeds to alter your sound?
Second how long has it been since you have had pad's and corks replaced? I almost married a flute player and I could tell like clock work in college when she needed new pads or at the very least to have some water put onthem and poped inthe oven at the repair shop! Even the brand of pads and style made a difference. One time a tech used cheap pads that wherenot quite right and it made a huge difference she made them re-do the entire job.
I just hate to see anyone fall intot he trap that many trumpet players make! Many go the quest for the magical trumpet or mouthpiece etc... thining that it is their gear when they are already playing on pro-level gear. We all have our own sound and 80% of your sound is you so maybe new gear will just eat up money that might be better spent else where! Just something to think about.
Life is hard so play hard!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2009-05-23 07:28
Well, there is nothing wrong with the E13 but it is a student grade instrument, not a professional clarinet. And with changing barrels, bells and pads you can alter the sound but it will never become a pro-level horn.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-05-23 11:02
> Well, there is nothing wrong with the E13 but it is a student grade
> instrument, not a professional clarinet.
I doubt that such subtleties can be heard in a concert band, unless you're doing a whole lot of solos. Besides, even with a professional instrument you'll continue to sound 95% like yourself. I had my teacher try out a bundy (with his mouthpiece/reed/lig) and he still sounded very much like with his RC.
Of course, with a pro clarinet you might experience a lot of improvements, be it ergonomics, resistance, touch and feel etc - but I'm quite sure the improvement in tone (if there is one) - especially among small brass, trombones etc - will go unnoticed.
I got the most encouraging nods when I switched to a wooden Vito VSP for outdoor concerts, simply because it carries better without noticeably compromising the tone. Key is to blend in acoustically (and, of course, to play the right notes at the right time), not to play this or that kind or level of clarinet.
Just out of curiosity - what level is your band playing?
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-23 11:27
I can only say how it worked for me but when I changed from an R13 to a Festival a lot of resistance I'd been pushing against suddenly wasn't there any more - the whole instrument sang so much more freely.
I'm not trying to say that someone else will get the same result with the same change. But it can happen - and that sort of thing, even if it might not make much of a difference to what other people hear from you, changes the kind of musician you can be. At the end of the day that is (for me) so much more important than the issue of what other people can hear.
One of the wonderful things about the clarinet as opposed to the flute is that for €3000 (which Samuel said is his budget) you can get the same instrument that a lot of top soloists play. (OK, a Tosca costs more but a lot of people stick to Festival/Prestige and I can identify with that - having played one, I wouldn't actually make the switch even though I my budget would certainly allow it.) I think it's really worth checking out the difference, even (no: especially!) if you don't end up going that way.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Samuel
Date: 2009-05-23 14:39
@ Ben We are playing in the highest division in the Netherland and we were a top 10 orchest of the world with the WMC in 1997 and 2001. I did the highest amateur exam called D.
"Can you not try other barrels or bells and different pothpiece and reeds to alter your sound? " The problem is not my sound or something like that. I don't have the illision that a new clarinet makes me a better player. Off course not. But my clarinet has some tuning problems caused through playing on a very cold clarinet (i forget my clarinet to remove from a very cold corridor), a very stupid mistake.
I have a maintenance contract (they check my cork/pads or better my complete clarinet every year) but there is no solution for this problem.
@ Oliver Sudden: Very good clarinet players are playing German in the Netherlands. To put it bluntly: Selmer and Buffet are Peugeot / Citroen in the Netherlands. Wurlizter and Leitner & Kraus are BMW / Mercedes in the Netherlands.
Why should i not follow the advice from my teacher to buy a better clarinet? She knows me since the age of 8....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-05-23 16:46
> We are playing in the highest division in the Netherland
Whoa! Not bad, not bad at all!
('scuse me for asking, but there's quite a spectrum of concert bands "out there", and some background checking usually doesn't hurt).
By your last post - are you already decided between French and German systems? Or is it a mere question of budget?
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-23 16:49
Samuel,
They mostly play 'reform-Boehm' in the big jobs in NL, don't they?
Of course not too many people play French system where I live (Keulen to you!) - if I wanted an orchestral job (instead of a contemporary music ensemble) I would have to change to German system clarinets, which cost twice as much and are not anywhere near as flexible although the things they can do well they do very well indeed. When I was talking about top soloists playing €3000 instruments I was thinking worldwide - I do think it holds for most countries.
The Mercedes clarinets are more than €3000 anyway, no?
Post Edited (2009-05-23 17:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Samuel
Date: 2009-05-23 20:42
Yes, you are right. All the players for example the royal concertgebouw orchest are playing on a german clarinet, some with a french system, some with Albert or something like that. Leitner und Kraus/ Wurlizter are far more expensive than 3000. About 14000 for a set....
My way of playing justified not a clarinet for 7000 Euro. I'm not good enough for that en secondly it doesnt make me a better player because the clarinet is so expensive.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-23 20:58
Oliver Sudden said:
”if I wanted an orchestral job (instead of a contemporary music ensemble) I would have to change to German system clarinets”
IMO one of the most dumb things about here ist that one needs to play the damned Öhler! A worse system and a sound which I personally don’t understand. That is, don’t understand as it hasn’t got anything over the French bore-sound, and of course nothing in terms of the system. The French is so flexible, powerful and beautiful, whereas the German is so, ”weich” (soft?).
But, I can’t do anything about that. I’ll still play the Böhm and rather not try to get an orchestral job here. :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-23 21:17
Haha, yeah I guess I’ll have to do that. ;-)
So, as you seem to be from Switzerland - how long do you think I’ll have to wait until Germany and Austria finally accept that the French system is the way to go?
* edit: is, not ist - whine: why can’t it be the same in German and English /whine
Post Edited (2009-05-23 21:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-05-23 21:28
Dunno if one or the other system is the way to go - I just find it weird to select or to preclude a player based on the system he/she is playing.
As long as a player masters the piece and is able to blend in with the section, why the fuss?
BTW Switzerland is somewhat undecided. Folk's often played on Albert while classic seems to be Boehm. In the end it will be a simple economic decision that leads to the extinction of the German system, at least for the lower end of the musical food chain.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-23 21:51
”As long as a player masters the piece and is able to blend in with the section, why the fuss?”
Agreed!
I have nothing *against* the Albert, but I hope it’ll slowly go extinct, as it then makes it possible for Böhm players from around the world to play in the amazing orchestras which Germany and Austria have got.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-05-23 21:57
Well it's not the clarinet system that must die, it's the prerequisites that must change. Sacrificing a class of instruments would be a high price when the withdrawal of subsidies for a year or two would suffice...
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-23 22:11
Well of course not, but as it doesn’t seem to be changing too much, I would rather want the system to go extinct rather than this being as this is now.
But actually, if it won’t change, nor will the system. :-)
Which means, we just need to find as many very good Böhmians and try to let them move to Germany and Austria! :D
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-24 08:55
As far as I'm concerned (being likewise a Klosé/Buffet player in Germany) the Oehler system is pretty dodgy except for one thing. Unfortunately for Klosé/Buffet players that one thing is making the German/Austrian orchestral sound - and the priority the Germans put on sound is really quite something.
I can sort of tell where they're coming from if they don't want French-system players in their orchestras. The French pre-WWII wind sound effectively died out not all that long ago, not only with the French bassoon but with really French french horns, for example; what's left doesn't have remotely the character that it used to. I'd hate to see the German sound go the same way.
(You wouldn't get far in an orchestra playing Albert system by the way. Unless maybe it was a period instrument band. )
There's a Dutch clarinettist who guests sometimes with our ensemble who plays Leitner & Kraus. I let her have a play on my Buffets once and it was all "oh, why can't I play this in the orchestra! All these lovely overtones...".
Oh dear, sorry, WAY off topic now... is there an Oehler vs Klosé/Buffet thread?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-24 09:46
Oliver, are you saying the old French sound is similar to the current German?
--
As I also play the bassoon, I’ve been playing with orchestras with Öhlers. What impresses me is how ”powerless” they are, and characterless. We were playing American pieces (which I guess were originally played on Klosés) and the punch I’m used to from Klosés wasn’t there at all. I also played a Wurlitzer bass, and though it was nice in the high notes, the power was missing and there was a whole lot of resistance in the playing.
Oh well, nothing I can do about making German orchestras ’accept’ the Klosés, but I still know of Klosé-players playing solos with German orchestras - IMO better than nothing.
--
Does the Dutch clarinetist play the Reform-Böhm from L&K?
--
Yeh, sorry Samuel for being off-topic!
Oliver, couldn’t you maybe start a Öhler/Klosé thread? :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-24 17:09
There's already a French vs. German thread so far be it from me to start another one...
What I meant about the old French wind sound is that it was threatened with extinction and eventually succumbed: there is no orchestra on the planet still making the sound that Debussy and Ravel - let's face it, some of the greatest writers for orchestra ever - heard (or at least, the sound that French orchestras made just before WWII, which is reasonably well preserved on record). Not just bassoons (even French bassoons nowadays don't sound like French bassoons used to) but the horns as well, and generally the piquant, vibrant, tangy sound that the winds had.
Not that the modern German sound has any actual resemblance to that! Just that the wind sound is under a certain amount of threat. I don't have a problem with the notion that an Australian who wants to work in orchestras in Germany should learn German clarinet. I mean, I had to learn German... I don't think 'globalisation' of woodwind sound is desirable.
As it happens, as of next week I'm going to be borrowing a pair of German-system clarinets from a clarinettist in Dortmund: I lent him my contra for a concert and that's my payback. I've been busying myself with period instruments for a bit so I'm getting pretty used to fork fingerings and to playing a Bb clarinet with an Eb reed. I'm very curious indeed as to what will and won't be possible...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-24 19:22
I understand your point!
Are you not from Germany?
Nice that you’ll get a pair of Öhlers borrowed - will be nice to hear your opinions after some time.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-05-26 05:19
Yes, I couldn't agree more with what Chris said. The instruments your teacher recommends are very fine clarinets. The Selmer is also a good bet. Play them all and pick the one you like best. If you can hold the instruments so that you can play them in your band rehearsals that would be wonderful. This way you can feel which blends, and also get the advise of your colleagues who play with you on a regular basis.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
