 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chorusgirl
Date: 2009-05-07 13:26
So, last night was our band concert. During the stage band performance, each soloist performed with the mic by their instrument, and it was fine for the flute and sax, but when the clarinetist played (an amazing player for a seventh grader) I noticed that the volume was very uneven.
When he played in the lower register, it was too loud and distorted by the mic. When he played in the upper register, it was lost and not picked up by the mic at all.
Bear in mind that the mic and equipement are all school grade - meaning not very good quality. But the thing that really surprised me was the uneveness of the volume, which only occured with the clarinet.
So, what is the best way, in this situation, to mic the clarinet? In this case, the mic was placed right by the bell.
I was seated in the audience, center orchestra, about 8 rows back.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-05-07 15:04
For most notes on the clarinet, very little sound is produced at the bell -- only the lowest couple of notes in each register will vent at the bell. For the other notes, most of the sound comes from the two or three uppermost open tone holes. This makes micing a clarinet (or any woodwind) tricky.
You'll probably touch off a long discussion (or get pointed to a previous long discussion) about the best sorts of mics or pickups to use and so on, but "in this situation" with the equipment available I'd say best to just put the mic at a level corresponding to about the middle of the instrument, and not too close.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2009-05-07 15:23
If you have only one mike, it should be on a boom and placed about 3 feet above the clarinet- this will even out the response and give the most accurate and pleasing sound. Hearing Pete Fountain and Peanuts Hucko perform on the old Lawrence Welk Show demonstrated this technique quite well. Miking off the bell gives a very unpleasant nasal tone- unfortunately, most sound men are not aware of this and treat clarinets like saxophones, unless otherwise instructed. Some accessory companies sell a more elaborate two-mike system where one mini-mike is clamped to the bell, the other above the tone holes near the center joint. But, one mike properly located as indicated above, will do just fine.
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Author: ginny
Date: 2009-05-07 15:42
Indeed the clarinet is difficult to mic, the sound comes out in varying places depending on the note being played. I've seen some mic placement that actually is on the floor under the player, getting the bounce back sound. Some people get barrel mics, I don't know how well that would work.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-05-07 22:19
I would place a mic a few feet away, about ear level. So the mic "hears" what someone else would. It would seem like a more realistic representation of what a listener would hear.
Alexi
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-05-07 22:45
A seasoned studio player I know once suggested, as a rule of thumb, putting the mic about where your hand is when you reach up and forward at about a 45 degree angle.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2009-05-07 22:47
As someone who has played into a mic many, many times in various environments, let me add my 2 cents: The advice about using a boom and placing it a few feet above the clarinet is excellent. Putting a mic well in front is also good advice. These techniques work very well in many situations, especially for recording. However, there are many situations in which it is hard to mic the clarinet in these ideal ways due to feedback issues, etc. Depending on the speaker placement, and the venue, sometimes you just cannot put the mic far from the clarinet. If one is forced to place the mic closer to the clarinet, it's best to put it over the players fingers - maybe 6 inches above or so. I usually placed a mic by my left hand, angled down a bit. The sound is not 100% perfect, but WAY better than trying to mic the bell.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-05-08 07:42
Yes, as several here have implied:
*The sound comes out the holes!*
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-05-08 08:50
The boom idea is great if your in an environment where you can get plenty of mic gain....i.e. you're well-protected from feedback.
But in noisier conditions even the mic just above your fingers won't really cut it. In those cases, it's better to have two mics. One will be close to the body of the instrument (near the left hand holes as Marty described), and one will be near the bell (but not inline with the air coming from the bell). I toured with a show some years back where this arrangement was used, and it served very well. The upper mic also worked fine for my alto sax.
The main con to this is that those mics should be mixed separately (requiring an extra soundboard channel).
Allen Cole
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Author: reedwizard
Date: 2009-05-13 19:09
The microphone should be placed above the tone holes on the clarinet in the middle of the body, that way it will pick up the most direct sound as well as partials and overtones that sound. Most likely it was a dynamic microphone that was used, requiring no phantom power. A microphone should never be placed near a boundary surface, like the floor actively seeking reflections. Any time a sound wave hits a reflective surface it inverts in phase and causes phase cancellations with the frequencies that reach the microphone by a direct path. This results in a very undesirable and thin sound. This would also include a music stand, microphones should not be near a music stand so that reflections from the music stand will cancel frequencies received by a direct path.
Paula
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Author: Lee
Date: 2009-05-16 15:17
reedwizard wrote:
> ... A microphone should never be
> placed near a boundary surface, like the floor actively seeking
> reflections. ...
An exception would be a PZM mike which is designed to be on a boundry surface but in general you are correct.
Lee
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Author: reedwizard
Date: 2009-05-17 18:42
Yes Lee you would not want to use a PZM to record a clarinet, in fact I avoid using them altogether unless one absolutely has to. Of course I did have to use them once when I recorded Billy Budd live and was forced to take feeds from the sound reinforcement guy, who was using them because of the set and the difficulty placing microphones due to the set and stage constraints. The result was awful because they are not a good microphone, especially for recording.
Paula
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Author: bbarner
Date: 2009-05-18 15:41
Applied Microphone Technology (AMT) offers a two-mic system that clamps to the bell of the clarinet. One AMT mic is suspended a few inches above the middle of the clarinet and the other a few inches below the bell.
Bill Barner
http://www.billbarner.com
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-05-18 22:40
>Yes Lee you would not want to use a PZM to record a clarinet, in fact I avoid >using them altogether unless one absolutely has to. Of course I did have to >use them once when I recorded Billy Budd live and was forced to take feeds >from the sound reinforcement guy, who was using them because of the set >and the difficulty placing microphones due to the set and stage constraints. >The result was awful because they are not a good microphone, especially for >recording.
PZM mics can actually be used to make excellent recordings. The Crown SASS-P that I use for recording orchestras and other acoustically balanced ensembles is in fact a stereo PZM array.
There are several tracks available on my own website that were recorded with this setup, as well as at http://www.esnips.com/web/merlinwilliamssStuff
As with all mics, the manner in which they are deployed is of vital importance.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-19 09:05
There's a difference between the demands of recording and the demands of amplification I suppose?
I was doing a big Stockhausen piece last year which featured several players wandering around the stage. My mike was a tiny little bud thing on a long stiff wire which held it about a largish handspan (a tenth on the white notes ) from the middle of the clarinet, with a lead running down the wire and then to a little transmitter pack in my pocket. Seemed to work very well indeed.
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Author: reedwizard
Date: 2009-05-19 15:11
PZM microphones are boundary microphones and are intended for use on boundary surfaces where they pick up foot falls etc, and are extensively used in foley. high quality condenser microphones will put a PZM to shame any day. In recording there is no right or wrong way but I would not choose a PZM because the electronics they contain cannot compare to a 2000K + Neumann for example.
Paula
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Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2009-05-22 09:47
This July I'm playing the Artie Shaw Concerto on an outdoor concert, its a big event, around 4000 people expected and a band of around 150 behind me.
Now given that this is outside and there is no acoustic, how would you place the mike? given that this piece is loud & jazzy, but then in the cadenzas is low and soft. Not wanting to lose any of that, would you all suggest a mike above the body to the front & one below the bell or is there some neat trick for outdoor performance??
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Author: reedwizard
Date: 2009-05-24 15:49
Hello Gobboboy,
All you need is a good spot microphone aimed at the center of the clarinet, away from the music stand so it does not pick up reflected sound. in this position the microphone will capture all of the sound radiating from the tone holes and all the fundamentals. A microphone placed at the bell really does not add anything and can pick up more key noise as the lower keys are opened and closed.
Plus with the addition of another microphone you have phase cancellation issues as both microphones will be picking up the same sound waves with different path lengths, and reflections off of one microphone or the boom etc. then these issues will have to be dealt with. If the engineer is not aware of this it will actually make your sound thinner.
The selection of microphone makes as great a difference as the placement of the microphone. A good condenser microphone will make the clarinet sound warm and velvet.
Paula
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Author: martinco
Date: 2010-10-23 13:32
I have both the double mic (AMT) and the Shure WB98H/C clamp-on mic. The latter is small and preferred. However, I haven't been able to find a way to attach the Shure mic easily to the clarinet.
So, I found the following solution. I took a 3/4-1 1/4 inch hose clamp (from a hardware or auto parts store) and lined it with felt (ACE Hardware "felt blanket"). I clamped it to the ring of the clarinet bell. There is a 1/2 inch metal tab left sticking out from the screw that can be bent so that when the mic is clamped onto this metal tab, the mic sits firmly on the clarinet.
Since I play both a Bb and C clarinet, I placed a clamp on both. Now it is very easy to move the Shure mic from one clarient to another.
Let me know if this helps any others out there. Or does someone have better idea?
http://naplesklezmerband.home.comcast.net
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Author: martinco
Date: 2010-10-23 13:56
Attachment: clarinet clamp.jpg (262k)
I have both the double mic (AMT) and the Shure WB98H/C clamp-on mic. The latter is small and preferred. However, I haven't been able to find a way to attach the Shure mic easily to the clarinet until recently.
I took a 3/4-1 1/4 inch hose clamp (from a hardware or auto parts store) and lined it with felt (ACE Hardware "felt blanket"). I clamped it to the ring of the clarinet bell. There is a 1/2 inch metal tab left sticking out from the screw that can be bent so that when the mic is clamped onto this metal tab, the mic attaches firmly to the clarinet.
Since I play both a Bb and C clarinet, I placed a clamp on both. Now it is very easy to move the Shure mic from one clarient to another.
Let me know if this helps any others out there. Or does someone have a better idea?
http://naplesklezmerband.home.comcast.net
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Author: Bill G
Date: 2010-10-24 06:16
Here's my experience, for what its worth. In playing jazz and in dance bands for many hours over many years, I always tried to play solos while standing, with a mic placed a short distance (less than a foot) above the mid point of the tone holes. In this way I could move freely to adjust the position of my clarinet so as to have the mic approximately over the highest open tone holes. This way you can vary the position of the mic with reference to the place where the sound comes from the clarinet, minimize extraneous noise, control the volume level of the clarinet, and generally use the mic in an artistic way (hopefully). This can be particularly effective in the lower register. Of course this technique could not be used in most "formal" settings
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-10-25 15:56
Last time I played to a mic the sound guy insisted on miking the bell. Everyone in the pit got a mic except percussion who got about seventeen. Wires everywhere. Some monitors appeared which worked intermittently. Two rehearsals in, director decided we were way loud enough without (we did tell everyone beforehand but were rebuffed) and all the mics were removed.
Moral of the story? Good sound guys are like gold dust! My own theory is that many of them have hearing loss from learning their trade...
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Author: timw
Date: 2010-10-25 21:26
I've always wondered what they used to mic the clarinet player in Fiddler. I always assumed it was a mic similar to what Martinco suggested. Anyone know?
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The Clarinet Pages
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