 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-01 21:14
Attachment: bassaklarinett.jpg (255k)
On the following picture (which was taken by me last year and uploaded to Wikipedia Commons) you’ll be able to see four bass clarinets. From left is a Leblanc of mine which I guess was made in the 60’s, a Signet Selmer hard rubber instrument, an E. M. Winston-badged bass which is exactly the same instrument I tried at the Amati booth in Musikmesse last month where it had an Amati badge, and a 70’s Leblanc.
I have been thinking about the neck designs of all those instruments and been wondering if there is any connection between easiness of playing and neck angles. The Signet Selmer instrument has the most upward-swerving angle and is the easiest to play, yet the small Leblanc on the left has the most straight angle, is the most difficult to play and sounds the best. Is it just me or is it mostly other things that change the easiness of playing?
I’ve also been wondering why Leblanc don’t have tuning necks with a twelfth key, only on the clarinet body. Is this a cheaper design or has it some other good sides?
Thanks!
DAE
Post Edited (2009-05-02 15:34)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-05-01 21:32
Older Leblanc basses -- including the top models -- had only a single register vent, mounted on the metal sleeve at the very top of the upper joint. Since there was no double key mechanism, and thus no linkage to the right-hand ring finger key, the register key was much more reliable than the standard setup.
There was a cost, however. The single key was a compromise, and while Leblanc basses played smoothly, for me their tone and response were weak.
There has been much discussion about the neck angle. Some bass specialists say that a "straight in" mouthpiece position gives a more characteristic bass clarinet tone and prevents an over-tight embouchure that is encouraged by a soprano clarinet angle. Other players (me, at the bottom, and Josef Horak, at the top) prefer an angled mouthpiece. Horak showed me how to rotate my chair to the right, brace my right foot against the right front chair leg and angle the floor peg against my right heel.
Ken Shaw
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-01 22:37
I understand about the old basses, but the bass on the right has two octave keys. It doesn’t sound interestingly and the index-and-thumb-fingered-Bb sounds like sh*t. The iatf-Bb on the older bass on the left sounds just fine.
I tried the Buffet Prestige and Selmer Privilège basses a few weeks ago and I liked the angle on the Selmer very much. It was a very natural feeling and the instrument sounded amazingly (with a Selmer mouthpiece and ligature and a Van Doren reed).
Is this what Horak taught you a very important thing or only a thing to make things more comfortable? How is it when standing with a very angled neck? I found it a bit difficult to stand with the Selmer (also because of the weight!), but, for example, find it relatively easy to stand with the Leblanc. I also saw a video of Henri Bok with a Privilège and he seemed to have had the neck from the older Selmer 37 bass.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-02 06:27
Selmer offer two differently angled crooks on their basses - one that looks like the older type and a newer one with much tighter bends and steeper angle for the mouthpiece.
You'll find them here: http://www.selmer.fr/ Click on 'Instruments' then near the bottom you'll see 'More:' and click on 'necks' and then 'Instruments' then select 'clarinets' - 'instrument model' - 'B-flat bass clarinet'
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-05-02 07:15
I forgot about that - before I went to sleep last night I found it again. Then I read your post. :-)
To me the neck looks even more straight than the old one; is it just me or is it like that?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-02 07:29
The Selmer necks at the fair were the newer ones with the steeper angle. That's the standard neck for those but you can get one with the less angled neck if you want. Actually I think the other neck is the same as on their previous models (35 & 37) since someone told me they use their older neck on the new model.
Although the Selmer has the steeper angle now, it doesn't feel exactly like the buffet. What neck and angle you like just depends on what is most comfortable for you. For sitting I prefer the steeper angle, for standing I don't really care that much since the difference is not that big to me and both feel ok. When standing, the balance of the instrument etc. can also make it feel better/worse.
For standing with any long bass clarinet (assuming without a long peg) you can try many options. There are all sorts of different straps and harnesses. After trying many things I settled on one type of harness and put the bell to the right side like some tenor sax players do. For someone else maybe something different will be more comfortable. The important thing for me is to ruin the back as little as possible (Yoga help too). When sitting, depending on the neck angle of your bass, the method described by Josef Horak can work, and for many other players different methods can work also.
As far as the different neck angle, a lot depends on whether it makes the player play in a different angle. This might make some difference (i.e. the difference is not the angle of the neck itself but how the player play because of it).
I have compared two identical necks on the same bass clarinet and there was very little difference, but there was a tiny bit. This makes it quesionable to claim the different angle itself makes any difference unless comparing a significant amount of both versions. For double register vent bass clarinets (where the second is for notes E and above), you can feel a big difference in response because of the size/shape/location of the register tube. So this is not the best criterion for comparing neck angles.
Leblanc makes, or at least used to make, one model with the two register vents. With all the changes they have (now being an American compoany, etc.) I'm really not sure what they make now. One claim is it helps with response of clarion register and that's true sometimes, but not always. A good one will help with the response when played in specific ways (like legato intervals from lower notes), but some instruments without two vents play great in the clarion, and vise versa.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-05-03 14:13
I put some of my thots on the "xeys 00" thread [inspiration, above] which include some bass cl discussion. Playing more B C [than other cls] in the last 20 years, I haven't paid much attention to necks, other than greatly liking the Selmer adjustable-tuning on my Model 31-2-3 F B Eb [about 1970], with a peg [+ strap] for angle accommodation. I very much like its "double register key" [DRK] structure, making the lower [and upper] clarion ranges much improved, over any SRK's I've had and played. I have recently acquired a "no-name" ?hard rubber? , nearly Full Boehm !, bass cl, with Getzen on the case [only] , SRK, which with a lot of tweaking is turning out quite well. Am having a "peg clamp" installed now, its hard to balance it without floor support IMHO. I would guess it was made by Malerne [or a similar, small maker], being quite well built, with the "Leblanc-type" of pinch Bb tone hole and register key [single] structure, any thots, D S et al ?? "Nuff fer naow, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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