 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-04-30 13:26
I got some minor work done on my clarinets yesterday. I handed the tech the joint on which a couple of keys needed readjusting, and after he had adjusted them, he pointed out to me that the clarinet was extremely dry. He had a look on the rest of the clarinet and the other one, and concluded that this was the case with both of them. Afterwards, he oiled them with a blend consisting of two thirds of almond oil and one third of denatured alcohol. He told me that I should buy the thinnest almond oil I could get, but that this never would be thin enough, so that I should mix it with one third denatured alcohol when I am oiling the clarinets.
He said that, in addition to thinning the solution, denatured alcohol would make the oil evaporate much faster.
Has anyone heard of using this solution for oiling clarinets before?
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
Post Edited (2014-09-16 16:55)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2009-04-30 17:43
Joarkh wrote:
>"Has anyone heard of using this solution for oiling clarinets before"?<
Yes, it's called idiot's solution. It does more damage than good to a clarinet bore. Alcohol shouldn't be used on a clarinet body at all (unless you're trying to remove old finish and replace it with a new one). It removes bore finish which was used for wood stability and waterproofing purpose. No oil can replace that.
Thin oil idea is nonsense. You don't have to wait until the oil evaporates. It's ridicules! Let the oil soak for a while and then you MUST clean it off the surfaces. Any natural oil left on the wood surface will eventually get rancid and make dirt stick to it.
The best oil available is the one from the Doctor's Products:
http://www.doctorsprod.com/store/comersus_listItems.asp?idCategory=15
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-04-30 18:21
I would have to agree that the Dr's products are the way to go. I would be very cautious about allowing someone to oil my clarinet with the mixture you mentioned above.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-04-30 18:34
I neither thought that oiling your clarinet with alcohol sounded like a good idea.
Here's another one: I've heard people say that Buffet says that their clarinets don't require oiling.
Anyways, there's no questioning my clarinets were rather dry. Is this something I should do anything about?
By the way: Vytas, would you recommend oiling with 100% almond oil rather than the solution I first described?
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
Post Edited (2014-09-16 16:56)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2009-04-30 19:56
If this tech's initials are ELC then you may be well advised to stay away from him. Email me if you want more details.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-04-30 20:15
I believe that Doctor Henderson himself said that any oil derived from plants is ok........such as almond, orange etc.
In climates where you have "weather," like London, Boston, Berlin, I would go ahead and oil once every month or so. Be more mindful in the Winter when indoor humidity can be VERY LOW due to heating systems sucking all the moisture out of the air. You should have a hygrometer on hand where you usually practice anyway. This will help predict when you will have good reed days and bad reed days as well (my good reed days are 60% humidity and better). Hygrometers are offered in combo with thermometers at your local hardware stores for about $10.00.
................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2009-04-30 20:17
Indeed the oiling issue is twisted by ignorant people as far as Buffet oiling recommendation is concern. Buffet does not recommend oiling NEW under warranty clarinets. It has nothing to do with the vintage or dried out instruments. The wood on new Buffet clarinets is treated in the factory and would not take the oil in trough the protective bore layer/finish anyway. What's the point of oiling the bore if the oil cannot get through the protective layer of finish? Of course the oiling with proper oils would be harmless but it is pointless and unnecessary job. This concerns Buffet wood clarinets. Other companies may or may not use protective finish in their bores. Bore that looks shiny do not need oiling. Dried out wood lose its color and the grain in the bore looks rough and raised.
Nothing is wrong with the almond oil. But why you want to use something that is not the best choice for your clarinet. You can't go wrong with the Doctor's Grenad oil. It's formulated for that purpose.
http://www.doctorsprod.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=59
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2009-04-30 20:30)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-04-30 20:41
Thank you for your helpful answer, Vytas!
Liquorice: I can't find your email. I think you'll find mine on my profile, though.
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
Post Edited (2014-09-16 16:57)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-04-30 22:15
I've been using GrenadOil on my and my daughter's wooden clarinets since the Doctor first started selling it. It's great! If you go to his website, he has a discussion on oiling of bores in his newsletters. Interesting reading.
http://www.dpctorsprod.com
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-04-30 22:30
Guys,
Please.....its Boars Oil....BOARS oil. Not bore oil.
Please refer to the Kaplan treatise on YouTube.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2009-04-30 22:38
Dileep Gangolli wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Please.....its Boars Oil....BOARS oil. Not bore oil.
>
> Please refer to the Kaplan treatise on YouTube.
Boar's Oil?
Swine flu outbreak?
Coincidence?
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-05-01 04:26
To oil or not to oil, that is the question. I think this subject is a bore.
I own five clarinet of duration from 3 years old to 45 years old. I never oil the bores, never had a crack, never had a problem. I have Buffets and Selmers. I do oil my Backun bells and barrels though because he recommends it, inside and outside.
My only advice is that if you do oil the bore you should cover the closed pads with thick paper so you don't soak the pads. I don't think it does any harm to oil the bore if you live in a very dry climate, don't have humidity control in your home, or don't use a dampit or something like it in the clarinet case. If you do something to keep the clarinet from becoming dry I really don't think it's necessary but each to their own. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
PS. make sure you oil the key joints once or twice a year with a light key oil. I've always used 3 in 1 oil, doing that for a million years. Well maybe only 40 or so.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-05-01 15:41)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-01 05:18
I also prefer the bore oils from Doctor. I tried both Bore Doctor and Grenadoil (sounds like a pre-historic animal to me) and my conclusion is that unless someone actually took many clarinets (several dozens at least) and did a controlled side by side comparison, no one can really say which of those is better. How would anyone judge what is better? Maybe there needs to be some fast-forward process of simulating a lot of use. I couldn't see an advantage of one over the other. I can't really say they are better than other oils, but I believe people (including Omar) when they say regular oils can become rancid (I've seen it happen just not on a clarinet). According to Omar he uses strong anti-oxidants (I hope I spell that correct) in his oil to prevent that. I especially like the smell of Bore Doctor, it's like a very good oily soap smell with marzipan 
By the way I usually prefer to oil after disassembling the clarinet. Actually every clarinet I've seen that required oiling needed so much work anyway that I needed to disassemble it anyway. I guess some people prefer to oil often (once a year or even more often) but I never found a reason that this is necessary.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-05-01 20:51
I use Doctor's Grenadadoil. I oil the bore when I start to get water flooding in the tone holes. This happens about quarterly. Interestingly, it takes about 3-days of light swabbing with the stuff before the surface is saturated, and still looks wet the next day.
During this time, I use an old felt cloth swab so as not to contaminate my silk swabs.
I feel good about doing this because the most rational-sounding explanation of "blow out" in clarinets is that the wood has dried out and warped --causing the bore to ovalize and ruin all the carefully reamed polycylindricity and undercutting used to even the scale and bring it into tune.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-05-01 21:37
There are as many opinions about bore oiling as there are clarinetists. Sure there are no studies and no proof of the relationship between any concoction and bore preservation. We haven't a clue whether any particular product, concoction, recipe, or snake oil is better or worse compared to any another, or compared to using nothing at all.
So, all of you grad students out there, especially ones at large universities who need a thesis topic, do us all a favor and consider this'n:
- round up all the clarinetists at your school
- round up a wood technologist and a bore scope
- get baselines for all of the instruments
- gather 4-years of data, monitoring any changes in wood condition in clarinet bores
- account for differences in oiling regimen and hours played for week
- get published
Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-05-02 10:58
Well, before my clarinets were oiled, I had a lot of trouble with water in the throat A key, which I haven't had since. In addition, I love the tone I can get now!
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
Post Edited (2014-09-16 16:58)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2009-05-04 21:09
-- He told me that I should buy the thinnest almond oil I could get, --
What on earth is thin almond oil? How do you make it thin?
Ethanol will evaporate very quickly and its drying property will force water out of the wood. Perhaps the idea is that it is then replaced by oil, but it sounds rather extreme and totally unecessary..
I oil once every six months and hope that it may help make the wood last longer by slowing down water loss/intake.
Of course it changes the tone. Just like the colour of your keys, your ligature, which way your barrel and bell are rotated and the magic words you use.
Nothing to do whatsoever with you, your reed or technique! ;-)
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-05-05 12:04
Doc's hearing must be bad as he doesn't hear the cage rattling. I had a friend years ago who never changed the oil in his cars. He claimed there was no need to do this and was convinced his belief was correct. I am a bit surprised that the guy in Oslo didn't suggest olive oil....since that is what King Oscar uses. I use aluminum foil under the pads. Originally 3 in 1 oil was formulated to displace water from articles such as fishing reels but I have no idea if today's formulation is unchanged. I guess every "handyman" including me has a can or two around the house for miscellaneous uses but it isn't my choice for the clarinets. There are two contributors on the BB whose opinions I always respect but I remain skeptical of my own.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-05-05 12:58
I think that the oiling refers to the player's bore. I often oil mine with beer. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
I'm one of those people who oil their clarinet as often as their (raw) wooden kitchen table, or some other kind of wood exposed to the elements - maybe twice a year, or when it looks shot. Kitchen table gets olive oil, clarinet gets woodwind oil.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-05-05 14:56
Steve: Yes, we are delusional...
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-05-05 21:11
> I had a friend years ago who never changed the oil in his cars.
I just have to share this! I had a friend years ago, a respected scientist, with whom I remember the following exchange:
'How often are you supposed to change the oil in your car?'
... 'Hmm. When did you last do it?'
'Well, I haven't done it since I had the car.'
... 'Oh, OK. Well, how long have you had the car?'
'Ten years or so.'
... 'Ten years?!'
'Well, I've never been able to get the sump plug out.'
It all goes to show something, I'm just not sure what. :-D
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-05-05 21:42
"Well, I've never been able to get the sump plug out.'"
Probably just as well since most who "do their own" cross-thread the plug when reinserting it and end up having to get that repaired.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-06 03:24
Bob:
>> I am a bit surprised that the guy in Oslo didn't suggest olive oil....since that is what King Oscar <<
I used olive oil a couple of times. It didn't really seem in any way better or worse than my usual of not oiling, or than any other bore oil I've used. A couple of people told me the cooking oils can become rancid and although one of them is selling the bore oil I use, I guess I just choose to believe it and not take the risk.
>> 3 in 1 oil <<
I don't have experience with 3 in 1 oil, but was told that it was usual for it to evaporate and leave gumi-things behind. Maybe there is a post on this forum too from Gordon about it causing problems in sewing machines. But that's for keys, I don't know what it would do to wood.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-05-06 09:06
Yeah, I was always told not to use 3-in-1 as it would dry to a sticky residue. But that might be an urban myth.
As for the bore, I don't use enough to get it on the pads... just a few drops on an old pull-through, a couple of times through each joint. When you look through the joints you can see the shine when it's done. I've got this really thin Buffet stuff; it doesn't appear to do any harm, and I'd hope it doesn't if it's got a major manufacturer's name on the bottle. Every six months or so, and I swear it brightens the tone slightly ;-D
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-05-06 12:07
Dileep,
I went back to You Tube and looked at the Mitch Kaplan "treatise" again. Thank's for reminding me about that set of video. Too funny and the claim of Julliard trained really makes me wonder if it was the Julliard School of Musical Flim Flam.
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-05-06 17:22
Correction: It was WD-40 that was developed for water displacement and what most handymen have around the house. 3 in 1 oil was used for sewing machines and the like years ago. Most opinions I've heard that I respect indicate it's not that good for important lubrication jobs. I've never used it for bore oiling and wouldn't consider it for such as there are other oils considered to be better. If one wanted to use olive oil for bore oiling Extra Virgin would be the one to consider, however, it's much better with bread or pasta. Doc's oils are fool proof for bore purposes.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-06 19:40
To boil an oar (canoe or kayak, same procedure is used), soak the oar in lemon oil for about an hour. Then, build a small fire in your back yard using mesquite charcoal. Erect a metal frame above the fire using steel girders, TIG-welded together. Attach the oar to the steel frame about 1 metre above the flames, using automotive hose clamps (I believe our Brit friends call these "Jubilee" clamps). Allow the oars to heat-soak for approximately three days, or until the fire burns itself out, whichever comes first.
Omigod! My apologies! I misread the 'subject' line in the original post. Must be dy myslexia kicking in.............................
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2009-05-06 19:52
There was a post years ago where I discovered that - thanks to David Spiegelthal - an old clarinet that I thought was rosewood was in fact extremely dried out.
I did a lot of reading and found that the best oils to use were olive, peanut, then almond. This was the order in how quickly they soak in. I found it hard to believe but actually it proved to be true. My clarinet returned to its normal colour and has stayed that way ever since.
Olive oil is excellent for bringing a neglected clarinet back to life.
.......
.....Then of course, spray liberally with WD-40 and a bit of old engine oil .....
There must be a Monty Python sketch in there somewhere!
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: haberc
Date: 2009-05-06 23:57
I like what Vytass said. If the bore is shiny it doesn't need oil. I have an older Selmer 9* that plays beautifully and I never oil it because it never looks like it needs it. BUT, I do swab it out and clean and dry the tenon sockets every time I play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-07 04:35
>> If one wanted to use olive oil for bore oiling Extra Virgin would be the one to consider, however, it's much better with bread or pasta. Doc's oils are fool proof for bore purposes. <<
Hey Bob I actually did use Extra Virgin...... but I do use the oil from Doctor but hopefully not for that reason....
>> Correction: It was WD-40 that was developed for water displacement and what most handymen have around the house. <<
I'm skeptical about DW-40. I don't use it on clarinet keys or wood, but I tried it for some other things around the house. It seem to help for a while and then the problem comes back, and my impression is it comes back even a little worse. If you look at used cans of WD-40, you can usually see sticky gumi stuff around the metal at the bottom of where the cap is. I imagine this is what happens to it after a while. The oils I use for woodwind keys don't have any sticky gumi like this anywhere.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2009-05-07 12:14
how about oiling the outside of the clarinet? is that common to do aswell?
i've done it for several years, every second or third time i oiled the bore, to keep the inside and outside in the same condition, minimizing the tentions in the wood.
//niclas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-05-07 20:37
"oiling the outside "
I suppose some might get on the pads. I've done it in the past but now use Renaissance wax on the exterior.....including the key touchpieces.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-05-08 07:47
WD-40 is not a lubricant, in the conventional sense. It kills pedal cycles. It's pretty good for its anti-seize and dissassembly properties, as it will penetrate a 'stuck' joint. It will displace water from car ignitions and dry to a protective waxy film. But it ain't really 'oil'.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2009-05-09 17:29
Your question is whether to protect the pads when oiling. Protect them, of course.
See this article.
http://www.lazarsearlymusic.com/Recorder-Care/recorder_oiling.htm
FYI
If you are going to oil your clarinet, you will have to use 'extra virgin' oil. Another grade oil is mixed with unknown ingredients to have the target acidity (for cooking). It will become the same thing as Dr. pointed out.
Anyway, crude oil origin oil should not be used for bore.
Commercially available bore oil do not show their ingredients. I do not trust them. International oil company is my favorite oil (for cooking).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-05-10 11:04
Hiroshi:
Thanks for the link!
I agree with this (both sets of instructions agree on this): "do not use a mop—it leaves lint in the bore".
Post Edited (2009-05-10 11:07)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-05-10 12:48
See "billyboy's" latest YouTube about "mops"
and other stupid clarinet ideas
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
