 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2009-04-27 01:16
I was at a recital recently for Dr. David Pino at Texas State University. I noticed that when he switched from Bb to A, he used the same barrel, and of course mouthpiece.
The advantage I see there is the elimination of that pesky ligature slippage!!!
He uses Robert Scott barrels and mouthpieces. He has for years and I know he works with Bob to produce his equipment, so some customizations were probably made.
Is the difference in bore size and shape neglegable enough to use the same barrel? Do any of you do this or know someone who does?
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-04-27 01:59
Some people are anal about the measurement of barrels. If it doesn't have the exact measurements that they think it should have they believe it can't play properly. Never mind that the mouthpiece may have a different bore, or the upper joint may be slightly different, they think the only good barrel is what they believe to have the only correct measurements. One of the teachers I know told my student that her barrel is no good because it didn't have "his" correct measurements. Forget that it plays in tune and has a good tone; it's a Backun and plays on her A and Bb very nicely. He doesn't like Backuns, only what he uses so it can’t be good. My Backun barrels play fine on my Bb and A Buffets though I do use different barrels but could use the same one because they're the same length. The assistant player in our BSO uses the same barrel on both of his clarinets. It just depends on your set up and how you voice. If that were not the case everyone that plays on the "wrong" barrel would play out of tune. Only those with the "correct" measurements would be in tune and get a good sound. Ridiculous right? Try it, if it sounds good and is in tune, then it works. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-04-27 02:40
When I bought a couple of Backun barrels (and tried about a dozen to choose from) I was told they don't sell barrels that are specifically for B-flat or A . And one of the things I found in trying those barrels was that they all measured differently from each other. Many worked (or didn't) equally well on both instruments, one or two worked better on my B-flat and a couple worked better on my A.
I've known several good players who moved the barrel with the mouthpiece when they switched between A and B-flat. My one concern in doing it is that, since I do all of my tuning with the barrel, if I make a lot of changes back and forth, I lose any tuning adjustments I've made before the switch so when I come back to that instrument, I have to find the pitch all over again, often on the fly while I'm playing. I realize that picking up a cold instrument, even if it was in tune when I put it down, is also likely to be out of tune, so maybe it's not any advantage to be able to leave the barrel alone. In the end, I probably use different barrels just because I've always done it that way and I'm used to it.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-04-27 14:21
I never had that problem. I have the "sweet" spot marked on my barrels with the instrument I use it for and simply line the mouthpiece in line with that on each of my instruments. The Backuns work great with my Buffets and Selmer but not the same barrel for each. I prefer a separate barrel for each but both my Backun Buffet barrels work on well on my Bb and A. The Selmer barrel is much smaller so that won't work. ESP
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Author: William
Date: 2009-04-27 15:50
I use the same barrel on both of my vintage Buffet R13s--just have to pull the barrel a little when putting it on the Bb from the A to correct the difference in intonation (A barrels on Buffets tend to be shorter). My set of R13s play the same using one barrel for both. Leblanc Concertos were designed by Tom Ridenour to use the same barrel on both A & Bb instruments.
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Author: D
Date: 2009-04-27 16:04
My Bb and A are the same make and model, and I use the barrels interchangeably. The thing I can't do is use the mouthpieces like that. I have 2 B40s and each one only fits one of the barrels - so the barrels are definitely different dimensions at the top although the bottoms seem to be the same. If I am playing both instruments I can therefore switch the whole top two bits over and as you say it prevents messing up the ligature and also helps when picking up a cold instrument.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-04-27 16:35
If the barrel works equally well on both instruments, then by all means use the same one. Some issues often come up in the fact that the bore and acoustics are slightly different as well in the length needed. With separate barrels you have the advantage of being able to find one where the feel, intonation, character, etc is optimal for that instrument. Sometimes one barrel ends up working, but is a bit of a compromise.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-04-27 18:00
Disclaimer...I make and sell custom barrels..
Here goes:
Certain instruments have the SAME bore for both A and Bb horns, so only the length changes (Selmer Recital is a case in point).
Buffet and similar horns have DIFFERENT bores for A and Bb, and the manufacturer designates different barrels.
Nonetheless, SOMETIMES one barrel will work on BOTH; and, as you have read above, there are professional players who use one barrel for both horns. If it works for you, great.
Likewise, I do believe in the "sweet spot" (axis that works best) concept, so experiment with that aspect also.
On the flip side, there are those who use one barrel for the A and another for the Bb, and yet other barrels of differing woods or internal configurations (tapers, custom tapers) depending on the venue and type of music played (hall vs. chamber, jazz etc). These individuals find that a variety works best for them. plus such players are good for my business.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-04-27 19:43)
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-04-27 21:17
Beyond all the analysis, try it, and if it works, keep doing it. I recently started using the reverse-taper barrel from my Bb on my A and have been very pleased with the improvements.
N.B. if you have an A & Bb Buffet R-13's, their bores are not the same.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-04-28 16:57
I had a Buffet R-13 Prestige Bb and a Leblanc Concerto A a few years back as my orchestral set. My clarinet teacher at the time was a very gifted fellow who helped me select some barrels for them and my Prestige actually sounded better on the A barrel than the Bb. Tuning was better as well. Go figure.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2009-04-29 18:44
I remember being astonished when I first started playing on Buffets and discovering that the barrels for Bb and A were different lengths. I heard the theory that the bores were supposed to be subtly different, but I thought it was complete madness to execute quick changes by moving the mouthpiece and risk ripping the ligature off. The only way to prevent this is to sand down the mouthpiece cork so it's a loose fit - but then it tends to wiggle when you play, which is unacceptable. So I quickly took the attitude that one simply had to find a single barrel that would work for both. At that time (1982) the barrels were not marked explicitly A & Bb in any case - this seems to have changed later in the 1980s.
The main practical issue is that the A barrel is about 1 mm shorter, so the Bb has to be played pulled out this much. I seriously considered having the A reduced in length, and I still think this is the best solution (anyone out there had it done?), but I was too much of a coward - so I got Howarth's to make a tuning ring for the top of the Bb (they told me that requests for these from pros were not uncommon). This is external only, so there's empty space inside the joint. But I reasoned that if I was using a barrel with possibly an incorrect bore anyway, then this is just more of the same. In practice, I couldn't detect a big difference in tuning between this setup and playing the longer barrel that came with the Bb (in other words, tuning was imperfect either way, and small tweaks to A and Bb were needed by filling or reaming holes slightly; I think all clarinets need a bit of this). And the barrel that came with the A made the Bb sound better - I would describe it as less bright, although this term needs definition. I use "bright" to denote a tendency to make a thin and edgy tone, lacking in warmth, so less bright is good. Incidentally, is it only me that finds modern Prestiges and Toscas bright in this sense compared to early 1980s R13s?
In short, I think single barrel is the way to go. I just feel cross with Buffet for making this harder than it need be by having the A and Bb different lengths. If they really want to insist on a different bore for the two barrels, they could surely do this with a single length, so that life would be easier for those of us who feel that swapping mouthpiece only is unacceptably risky.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-04-29 19:23
All good ideas, but please know that on Buffets, the bore of the Bb and A barrels are indeed different.
Here is yet another wrinkle for the saga:
I know of a major player/pedagog who gets a reverse taper A-barrel for his Bb and tinkers with (internally) it until he is happy with the A-barrel working on the Bb. (Professional driver on closed course...do not attempt this unless you are willing to ruin a lot of good and expensive barrels)
The possibilities are endless.
Disclaimer...I am a custom barrel maker.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2009-04-30 00:46
I forgot to mention....Dr. Pino uses Buffet Vintage clarinets at the moment...actually he has for years.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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