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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2009-04-14 02:39
Hi everyone!
I'm trying to get a recital together on September 13 (Clara Schumann's Birthday) and I would LOVE to play the Mendelssohn Concertpiece on Basset Horn. Is there anywhere I could rent one? I'm in Winston-Salem, NC...
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-04-14 03:34
Eek. Love the instrument but good luck finding somewhere to rent one. If there are some friendly local colleges ask to borrow one maybe.
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Author: John25
Date: 2009-04-14 10:46
There are some very awkward passges in both the Mendelssohn Concert-pieces. Also, the basset horn is much quirkier than the bass clarinet. I suggest it takes about 6 months to be a reasonable bass clarinet player; so the basset horn takes longer - firstly, because the player does not have a really good idea of the sound they are aiming for, and secondly, because of the extra keys.
I have played the basset horn for over 40 years and still have to spend time to get the Mendelssohn pieces up to performance standard. Sorry to sound negative, but I think most basset horn playrs would say that it's impossible to produce a good performance on an instrument you have borrowed for a couple of weeks.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2009-04-14 11:17
I once inquired about renting a basset horn from Weiner's in New York, and they offered one for about $400/month, as I recall.
But John's advice above is sound. You'll need to figure it out and obtain a suitable mouthpiece, reeds, ligature and work at gaining command of the instrument. It's possible, but you should acquire one now.
Perhaps an alternative to the Mendelssohn would be the nice arrangement of Robert Schumann's "7 Stuecke in Fughettenform, op. 126" for clarinet quartet (2 clarinets, basset horn, bass clarinet). At least with that one, the basset horn part could be played on alto clarinet by a good transposer.
Post Edited (2009-04-14 11:21)
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-04-14 11:39
Basset horn is not as intimidating as others on this thread are suggesting....esp if you already double bass clarinet or any of the saxes. It does blow a bit differently but you can figure this out in a week if you are adept at adapting.
The two Mendelssohn pieces should be done on basset horn when at all possible. They work so much better that way and really are much truer to the intention of showcasing the Baermann's father and son.
I would suggest borrowing one from a local school and offering to rent or do a favor in return. Given where you are, I would think that either some pro players may have one (often bass clarinet players in the sym or opera orch) or in many cases, local colleges with large music programs.
In your location, several of the DC band players may own a basset horn.
But I would encourage you to try to do these works on basset horn. I think you will have a good time doing it this way!
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-04-14 14:40
Oddly enough I was playing these last night on my alto clarinet (not transposed parts, just as is). They sound fine on it but there are a couple of prominent low C's that the alto couldn't get, even if transposed, as the lowest note transposed would be the equivalent of Db on the basset horn. A couple of them would sound odd up an octave too.
I have played basset horn since 1986 so my sense of adjustment to it is a little less and I do try to include it in my practice schedule so that it doesn't feel foreign. If you play a bass to low C, this will be a help getting accustomed to the notes played with RH thumb and the other basset notes. I use a Hite alto clarinet mouthpiece that gives a very full sound on the LeBlanc basset horn, but it is the wide bore model. For me that is a bit easier to play as the resistance is not as great and it feels more like an alto clarinet.
They are both beautiful pieces and I hope you can play them.
Eefer guy
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-04-14 14:43
Efferguy,
That is the exact setup I use as well.....Hite alto cl mpc on a LeBlanc. By the way, the newer Buffet basset horns are fine instruments, but for a long time the LeBlancs were the only wide bore modern instrument (at least in the US).
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2009-04-14 15:28
Thanks for the encouraging words. I do adapt rather quickly to new instruments. I'm a doubler, an learn really quickly. (I use thumb keys quite often...I teach bassoon!) I've also played Bass and Alto Clarinets, so I know what to expect embrochure-wise, just gotta find one. Anyone know of any schools in particular on the east coast that might have one? When my college played the Gran Partita last year, we rented from U of Michigan I believe, but the school paid for that and I doubt very highly that the school where I teach will pay for it.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-04-14 18:14
Dileep, I think the Hite alto mouthpiece the best of those I have tried with the Grabner a close second. Oddly I didn't care for the Hite on my other clarinets, but it makes the basset horn and alto really sing. Have now bought three of them.
concertmaster3, enjoy playing the basset. It is a great horn. Too bad it's not more widely used. When i play it I often hear comments "I thought it would sound more dull than that, it's supposed to be for funerals." They are surprised with pieces like the two Concertpieces as that part does not sound like a requiem!
Eefer guy
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Author: TonkaToy
Date: 2009-04-14 20:54
If you're in Winston-Salem I'd try the NC School of the Arts and Wake Forest and maybe the NC Symphony in Raleigh, though I doubt the Symphony would consider renting/lending even if they own a pair. I doubt Winston-Salem State would have any but it's worth a call, I suppose.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-04-14 21:14
Eefer,
Exactly my sentiments regarding the Hite mpc. I never could get them to work on any other horn.....excepting the alto mpc/Leblanc basset combo.
You must be my identical twin that was separated from me at birth.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2009-04-14 22:17
I know for sure that NCSA and WSSU don't have one (I teach at WSSU and graduated from NCSA). I'll ask around at Wake. That just reminded me to ask App State as well.
So, I'm guessing the Hite MPC is going to be a good choice? hehe.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2009-04-14 23:13
Hite may be a good choice for a Leblanc or a Buffet, but if you rent/borrow a Selmer it may not be.
I don't play on a Hite, but I know someone that does and is happy with it.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-04-15 16:28
Larry B,
Indeed you are correct. The Hite will not work well on the Selmer due to the much smaller bore design of the Selmer basset horn (which is more akin to an alto clarinet rather than a true basset horn).
The Hite/LeBlanc combination has worked well for me in several Gran Partitas and Requiems. Have yet to do Elektra.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-15 17:28
The term 'true basset horn' is a topic of debate and if you're a purist it's only really applicable to Selmers as they have a narrow bore and use a Bb mouthpiece.
Buffets have a larger bore than Selmers (but not as large as Leblancs) and use an alto mouthpiece.
Leblancs have the largest bore of all (18mm - the same as an alto clarinet bore) and use an alto mouthpiece.
But the defining factor as to what constitutes a true basset horn is the fact they're pitched in F and descend to low C - bore size and mouthpiece type shouldn't be a determining factor of a 'true basset horn'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-04-15 17:29)
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-04-15 18:43
But historically there were basset horns in keys other than F, including the G basset horn for which Mozart wrote a concerto fragment, and the D basset horn for which I believe Telemann wrote.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2009-04-15 19:04
Dileep: I performed Elektra using a Leblanc bh/Bill Street mouthpiece, which worked just fine. The difficulties all had to do with me.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-04-15 21:50
I'm very curious (or to put it another way, surprised...) about this D basset horn in Telemann... any more information?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-15 22:11
"I'm very curious (or to put it another way, surprised...) about this D basset horn in Telemann..."
Same here!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-04-15 23:02
Embarrassingly enough I seem to have confused two men who were born about fifty years apart. I should know better than to trust my memory when it comes to pre-Mozart composers. Anyway, what I was groping for was J. C. Bach's use of three basset horns in D in his opera Temistocle. Bach specified "clarinetti d'amore" but Richard Maunder (Galpin Society Journal, 37: 42-47 (1984)) argues that what was really intended was basset horns in D, and something I've read recently (probably Hoeprich's new book) left me with the impression that this interpretation has become accepted at least by some. As Maunder points out, at least one D basset horn actually exists, although in a later article Nicholas Shackleton and Keith Puddy (Galpin Society Journal, 38: 139-142 (1985)) argue that this particular instrument dates from several decades later. Albert Rice seems to accept Maunder's argument, and he mentions a theorist, Albrechtsberger, who in 1790 described basset horns in G, F, E, Eb, and D (Galpin Society Journal, 39: 97-111 (1986)).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-15 23:15
Are these basset horns in D the same as D soprano clarinets but descend to low C (like D basset clarinets), or are they in essence true basset horns in D basso (almost like D bass clarinets but with a narrow bore)?
The clarinette d'amour has a pear shaped bell like the larger oboes, not sure what pitch they were in (presumably G,F or Eb) but the ones I've seen pictured only go to low E.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-04-15 23:30
Low D -- as you say, nearly bass clarinets.
The clarinette d'amour was usually in G, though it occurs also in other keys. One argument Rice was making in 1986 is that the basset horn may have developed from the clarinette d'amour. Both have in common (back then anyway) a narrow bore and a low pitch. It may then not be surprising that early basset horns, before the terminology got standardized, would sometimes be referred to as clarinettes d'amour.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-04-16 01:01
Chris P,
>The term 'true basset horn' is a topic of debate and if you're a purist it's only >really applicable to Selmers as they have a narrow bore and use a Bb >mouthpiece.
But I am a purist. I have played period instrument basset horns (in particular William McColl's copy of the Munich Griesbacher) and you cannot use a period Bb mouthpiece on that. The mouthpiece is unique to the basset horn.
Indeed you are correct that the LeBlanc resembles an alto clarinet while the Selmer tries to stay true to a smaller bore but if you are really a purist, then neither is a true basset horn (in comparison to the period instruments).
Perhaps if Tony is lurking on this thread he can make some points here.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-04-16 01:38
German basset horns are a different matter to their French counterparts using neither a Bb or alto mouthpiece (not that I'm aware there is such a thing as a German alto clarinet), and have evolved from these early types.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2009-04-16 05:59
small size of tone holes is also a factor on the basset horn. there been extensive discussions of this in past threads. the basset horn part of this piece is much more difficult than the clarinet part, so how ever easy you may find adapting don't underestimate the challenge.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-04-16 16:56
For what it's worth, it appears Martin Foag Klarinettenbau Meisterwerkstatte makes a German system alto clarinet -- there's even a photo on their web site, though it appears corrupted. http://www.holzblas-foag.de/
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-04-17 00:54
Amazingly enough the LeBlanc basset horns sound amazingly like the narrow bore bassets. I've even played in ensembles with Selmer and Buffet ones and our sounds all matched. The feel of the instruments is rather different though. The LeBlanc has less resistance than the other two.
In Newhill's book, he reached a similar conclusion that it was almosdt impossible to tel the sounds of the various kinds apart. I don't think any of them resemble the basset horns of Mozart though with that weird box. The Fox ones are closer to the basset horns of yore but even it is a very diffferent animal!
Eefer guy
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Author: eefer ★2017
Date: 2009-04-18 06:10
I have played the Fox basset horn (beautiful, and previously owned by Dan Leeson), a Buffet narrow-bore from mid-20th century, Buffet large-bore, and my own personal, new large-bore Leblanc/Paris. I have done this in the space of a year, and never played a basset horn prior to that. Every one of them has its own unique system for the left hand low notes.
The Leblanc is, hands-down, the easiest to learn. The Fox would be next, but the Fox I played is different from another Fox I have tried (owned by Keith Bowen). Leeson's Fox had plateau keys, while Bowen's Fox had open rings. The two also had different systems of low fingerings. I have small hands, so the plateau system was better for me, but the open-rings made for a nicer sound (less stuffy, IMO).
The one with the best sound had to be the Buffet narrow-bore. But the awkward position of the right hand under the thumb rest left my arm and hand extremely pained. My hand was forced down lower than the top of my right leg. The low C was a three-fingered deal that was not easy to master for me. The left-hand thumb key was almost unreachable, and at a terrible angle (down and way from my thumb).
I played Backun MOBA mouthpieces on both models. The narrow-bore models took my standard cocobolo Bb mouthpiece (with a lot of teflon tape for the Buffet model). The large-bore Buffet had a Vandoren alto clarinet mouthpiece, and the large-bore Leblanc uses a Backun MOBA alto clarinet mouthpiece. I use Vandoren #3 alto clarinet reeds for the large bore instruments, and a BG Super Revelation ligature. For the Bb mouthpiece, I use #3 Rico Grand Concert Evolution or Glotin Gaia reeds, and BG Super Revelation ligature.
My experience over the course of the last year has shown me that basset horn is not a "pick-it-up-and-play-it" instrument. Each individual instrument has its own set of quirks to be mastered. I have borrowed a bass clarinet "manual" by Jean Marc Volta to help me master some of the really quirky things (one of the very best technical works that I have ever seen).
And as for borrowing a basset horn, they are in need of tweaking on a regular basis. I would never consider lending mine, unless I really KNEW who was borrowing it. Even then, I would probably be inclined to say "NO".
When I am richer, I will probably get myself a Fox, simply because I find it easier to play on a standard Bb mouthpiece. I also like the sound of the narrow-bore a bit better. But for the money, the Leblanc is the best bargain, being several thousand dollars cheaper than anything else. The craftsmanship is better than anything else, too. The keywork is exquisite.
For anyone who is looking for a little help with the basset horn, Eddie Palanker has a nice web site with lots of tips on how to conquer the difficulties of the large clarinets. Check it out at http://eddiesclarinet.com.
Nancy Buckman
AACC Symphony Orchestra
Opera AACC
Early Music Society of Northern MD
(and a lot of other ensembles, too)
nebuckman@gmail.com
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-04-18 13:31
Nancy,
Great descriptions and thanks for the link to Ed's site too. Lots of good stuff there too.
I have tried a Selmer and a Buffet, although this was a while ago. The Selmer was a good horn too, although as you said the LeBlanc plays easier and has more of a clarinet feel to it. My only complaint would be an additional low D on the RH thumb like the Buffet bass, but yor model might have that. Mine is from 1988.
I went through the Concert Pieces last night on the alto, playing the D's and C's up an octave (as read not transposed). It is still pretty even with the octave jumps. Beautiful pieces.
Eefer guy
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Author: eefer ★2017
Date: 2009-04-18 21:00
Because I am so new to this instrument, I chose not to have anything "done" to mine to change it. I find it interesting that basset horns really aren't like clarinets at all, when one gets into the actual playing of the instrument. The only commonality is that many fingerings are similar. After that, no rules apply.
I have been fortunate to have had the help of some very fine players, too. I never would have conquered any part of basset horn-ing without the help of Morrie Backun, Keith Bowen, Tom Puwalski and Dan Leeson. Clarinet was not my primary instrument. I have specialized on eefer, so making the leap to a large instrument was done with trepidation. And being self-taught didn't help either!
Nancy Buckman
AACC Symphony Orchestra
Opera AACC
Early Music Society of Northern MD
(and a lot of other ensembles, too)
nebuckman@gmail.com
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Author: larryb
Date: 2009-04-19 15:08
A note about the Leblanc basset horn: according to a Leblanc rep on a recent thread, Leblanc has discontinued its basset horn and plans to reintroduce a new design in the future. Finding a new Leblanc will be very difficult for a while, and who knows what the new design will bring.
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Author: farabout
Date: 2021-06-14 01:18
Given the fact that the market for Bb/A/C/Eb clarinets has rather matured to the point of a limited future growth, whoever can first scale up manufacturing of the standalone lower basset horn joint that would be compatible with remaining sections of the standard A clarinet (upper joint, bell, barrel) of established brands, and offer it at a profitable price below $1k, will make the killing.
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2021-06-14 03:12
You are confusing the basset horn with the basset clarinet.
Since this thread is from 12 years ago, it probably doesn't matter.
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