 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2009-04-14 16:41
Jerry
The Villages, FL
Post Edited (2009-04-19 19:42)
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2009-04-14 17:13
Jerry
The Villages, FL
Post Edited (2009-04-19 19:44)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-04-14 23:41
Maybe just the novelty of a different feel. Or maybe what you actually like better is the E-11 barrel.
Karl
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Author: Jacob S
Date: 2009-04-15 02:17
I've heard that different models just mean different stamps... Certain quality horns that come through get different stamps, if they aren't as good they're an E11, if they are better, maybe an R13... I'm not sure how accurate that is, but that seems like an easy enough explanation for how a lower end model could play better than the higher end. I play an E11 (I was new to buying horns), and I prefer it (by far) over my teachers' R13's, some R13's and Festivals I've tried, and a few higher end Selmers. Quality control, in sight of how everyone must try as many horns as possible before buying because each one is different, can't always guarantee the best clarinets out there.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-04-15 02:45
Maybe it's not all about the hardware. What about the acoustics of the throat, gullet, etc? A given instrument can couple very differently to different players and playing approaches.
Jim Lockwood
The Villages of Rio Rico Arizona
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-04-15 12:09
"Certain quality horns that come through get different stamps, if they aren't as good they're an E11, if they are better, maybe an R13... I'm not sure how accurate that is, but that seems like an easy enough explanation for how a lower end model could play better than the higher end. "
If you have ever held the two instruments in question, you can tell the obvious differences between them in a second. The E11 is a nice beginner-intermediate instrument, but it pales when you play a good R13. Additionally, there is a difference in the keywork. Not to mention whatever that "finish" they put onto the wood of the E11. There are literally at least a dozen differences when you inspoect and play the two instruments side by side. Enouigh so to discredit the statement that they are the same instrument. They (until very recently) didn't even come from the same country. Now Buffet is hypping an "E-11 France." We'll see if it's an improvement.
Jeff
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-04-16 21:17
All other comments aside, my guess is that you have been playing exclusively on those instrument/mouthpiece/reed combinations for so long that any step away from them feels better.
I had this happen 20 years ago, when I got an R-13A on approval. "This isn't that great," I thought. "But I have it on trial for a week and might as well use it." After 4 days, I switched back to my old A, and my response was "Jeez, how could I play on that thing? How do I pay?" I bought the new instrument on trial, looked back a couple of times, ever verifying a proper choice. While this is perhaps the reverse of what the two of you see, please consider that your first impressions may be hampered or enhanced by whatever rut you are in.
The only adequate test is if you *keep* each others instruments for 4-5 days or so, then trade back to your own instruments, and see what you think then.
-----
"It is also their general practice to deliberate upon affairs of weight when they are drunk; and then on the morrow, when they are sober, the decision to which they came the night before is put before them by the master of the house in which it was made; and if it is then approved of, they act on it; if not, they set it aside. Sometimes, however, they are sober at their first deliberation, but in this case they always reconsider the matter under the influence of wine." - Herodotus, "The Histories". c. 430 BC
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-04-17 10:55
>> Buffet is hypping an "E-11 France." We'll see if it's an improvement. <<
I recently tried a bunch of those. Funny that they have a website just for that model. I don't remember enough to get compare specifics with the older E11, but I thought it was a decent instrument.
I liked it less than all their pro models (and I mean all, they had all of them there to try also). However I'm skeptical about the throat A key of the new E11 France. It is in an awkward (i.e. uncomfortable) position and it's possible that this alone can be a reason that I'd recommend a different clarinet instead, eventhough they played pretty nice.
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-04-17 11:43
Hmm...I say it's probably the mouthpiece and instrument.
At Muncy Winds, I tried some of the Vintages, and on onee, I sounded really constrained, and it was much more difficult than playing on an E11.
I've heard it said that the clarinet is just an amplifier for the mouthpiece.
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-04-18 05:40
I bought an E11 years ago after comparing it against several other E11's and several other R13's. It played better than all the E11's and all but three of the R13's, two of which played similar to it. Even the owner of the shop, an accomplished clarinetist himself, told me to get it after he checked it out. Said that it was probably stamped wrong and should have been an R13.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-04-18 06:22
> I've heard it said that the clarinet is just an
> amplifier for the mouthpiece.
I on the other hand have heard:
A clarinet is an instrument with a reed attached.
A bassoon is a reed with an instrument attached.
Doesn't apply to any bassoonists reading this, obviously. ;-)
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2009-04-19 15:01
The idea that a an E-11 was accidentally stamped as a R-13 is really far fetched.
That's like saying Simon Cowell hasn't known about Susan Boyle all along and the whole thing isn't a contrived fantasy. Everything is a fake but her voice!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-04-19 15:17
Mixing up an E-11 and an R-13 at the factory? Pretty much impossible, given that one is/was made in Germany, and the other in France.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-04-19 15:17
I understand now that the E11 wasn't stamped wrong. But put into consideration some of the inconsistencies from one instrument to another -
1. Wood
2. Keywork
3. Craftsmanship (or lack thereof)
Now, even with the major brands, they cannot guarantee exact 100% consistency instrument to instrument even under the same model. Everyone tries or should try several of a given model to find the best pick available to them. This in mind, I just lucked out with a very very good intermediate wood clarinet. Back in college, my teachers even said it was a good horn, just had to find a good mouthpiece. That's a whole other story.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2009-04-19 18:36
I actually have a friend that likes E-11's over R-13's. In fact, I've heard her play some R-13's, and a couple of High End Yamaha's,a nd her E-11 sounds just as good, and actually a little better than the R-13s and Yamaha's. I have another friend who plays the Yamaha's, and was only 2nd in the studio next to a post grad student. But my friend with the E-11's owns 3 (Eb, Bb and A) and no one here at the school can really say anything about her sound, and they all own R-13s. Even her teacher said she should stick with the E-11s. (Actually all 3 of the clarinet teachers that have been here in the last few years that have heard her play say that.) It's all a matter of who's playing and their set up. My setup feels great on her clarinets (we actually have the same MPC, she just uses harder reeds) and vice versa. I'm playing on a set Couesnons (Bb and A).
Most people that I know that own a R-13 have had so much work done to it just to make it sound the way the want, which is the same with any instrument. I'm primarily and oboist, and no one really figured out that I owned a Fox until they closely examined my instrument after trying it and noticing it was heavier than their Loree's.
With a decent MPC and barrel, a decent clarinet itself can almost be just thought of as a piece of wood there for fingering. just think about how some students sound on their clarinet, and then when a teacher plays it with his/her setup, how they sound just the same as they did before.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-04-19 20:21
How those instruments are set up can have a tremendous effect on how they play. An R-13 with an factory setup or typical school overhaul may compare very unfavorably with an E-11 that has been gone over extensively with cork upper joint pads, springs all adjusted, etc.
One pro comment to me that his E-11, modified by Morrie Backun, was an "awesome horn". The level of acoustic mods done here makes this an unfair comparison, but I have played on some really great and some really sorry R-13's.
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