 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-11-02 03:33
I'm currently in the process of changing my embouchure to double lip. I'm wondering how many people play double lip vs. single lip as well as is there a standard embouchure setting when doing double lip. I find that my double lip embouchure isn't the same each time i use it. I'm trying to take most of the guess work out and develop a consistent double lipped embouchure. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. If you're wondering why i'm changing my embouchure it's because i find that i have a warmer tone when playing double lip and there is less pinching and pressure on the reed which causes unwanted squeaking. The only problem in developing this embouchure is the work it takes to develop the upper lip muscles and fitting the lower lip muscles into the neat package called double lipping. It also takes a lot of the strain off of my lower lip and i find that i don't bite through my lower lip. I still play mostly single lipped but i am hoping that one day i will feel confident enough to play solely double lip.
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Author: Phil
Date: 2000-11-02 05:51
if there is a problem with biteing the reed, and through the lip. Your bottom theeth are probablly sharp, as mine are. This causes many problems.....the tounge drops to the back of the mouth.....tounging prblems...breath and reed support, and the list goes on...To help prevent this, i use a cheap denture pad...the EZO lower heavey denture pad. This helped me open my tone, and stop biteing and compesating for the problem..
The double lip embouchure is a good embchure to use..although not widely uesd. I on;y know of one person who uses double lip, and that Elsa Ludwig-Verdehr at Mishigan State. Wonderful player, and very well known. I saw the trio play at a masterclass last year at university of Kansas. The double lip really opens up tone and allows the reed and tone to resonate freely. My only problem was that my upper lip went numb when I was using trying this. It does work though...alot of work to change what you have, but the results are good.
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-11-02 12:10
Keil:
Richard Stoltzman, the world's most prominent clarinet soloist, plays double-lip and he always performs standing up!
The late Harold Wright, principal clarinet of the Boston Symphony from 1970-1995(?) played double-lip and was considered by many to have the sweetest sound.
Ralph McLane, the legendary principal clarinet of the Philadelphia Orchestra from 1943-50 played double-lip.
Augustin Duquès, principal clarinet of the NBC Symphony under Toscanini from 1937-49 played double-lip.
I applaud your making the switch!
A few words of advice:
Go slowly! Play for a minute or two and then rest.
You may have to lighten your finger technique-if you're too heavy, the clarinet will move around too much in your mouth.
You may have to lighten your tonguing.
You may gravitate toward a closer mouthpiece facing.
I switched 30 years ago and I have no regrets. It is more difficult to be "solid," but the difference in flexibility and "naturalness" of playing is worth it to me.
Good luck and be patient!
Sincerely,
Steve Hartman
New York City Ballet
New York City Opera
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-02 12:42
I started playing clarinet two months ago. I didn't know any better or worse, and I naturally or unnaturally started playing with a double lip embouchure. After joining the Sneezy board, I learned that most players use single lip. I tried it, but couldn't stand the vibration via my teeth. I spoke to Tom Ridenour, about a new clarinet last week, and he told me that he uses a double lip embouchure. So, based on this thread, so far, I think I'll stay with double lip. The only negative, for me, is that its "destroyed" the flute embouchure that took me ten years to develop. I don't care, since I now prefer clarinet.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-02 14:53
The embouchure works best when you believe in it. I play double-lip and I cannot play single-lip at all. But, hey, Jack Brymer and that Stubbins guy are single-lippers (yes, I do realize it can be a generational thing). I like that parting word of O. Lee Ginson about ligatures: the thing tends to work best that you use with the most confidence. There will always be fabulous players out there who will never use a reverse ligature, double-lip embouchure, or thicker reeds.
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Author: Lyn
Date: 2000-11-02 15:59
I play and teach both flute and clarinet, and use double lip. My husband also uses it, as did his teacher, Harold Wright. I switched to double lip 20 years ago, switched back to single, and decided that I was a much more sensitive player using double lip so I went back.
If I am just playing flute, or just playing clarinet, or switching from flute to clarinet, I am fine. If I have to go from clarinet to flute, it takes me a while to get adjusted -but I think that's just normal. To Bill: You might want to take some flute lessons from someone who doubles to see how they compensate for switching.
Tip for Keil: I hope your teacher has told you that you can rest your clarinet on your knee, which helps immensely with feeling secure in playing.
You can also get this stuff called Parafilm (If you search the message archives, you can find a post I wrote on this years ago with the address) from a company called Fisher Scientific. It's the stretchy plastic film they use to cover beakers and such. I don't use it much any more, but you can cut it into small pieces, double it if you want, or not. It's great stuff and pretty cheap to boot, comes in a big roll and you will never run out. 
BTW my husband had the corners of his teeth filed by his dentist so the sharp corners would not hurt his lip (no, he doesn't look funny, LOL, you can't even see it).
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-11-02 18:55
My private teacher had the corners of his teeth sanded too so that he wouldn't be biting through... I don't find it painful to play double lip. The only thing is that i have some major auditions coming up and though i prefer my tone when i'm playing double lip, i don't feel totally comfortable switching completely, especially before these auditions. I use a mouthpiece patch on the top of my mouthpiece which really helps to darken my tone when i'm not playing double lip, at times though i play double lip with the patch and sometime it can be a pain to have it there or a blessing... I so don't know what to do.... i love having my patch... i guess my question now is can i do double lip and still have my mouthpiece patch?
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-11-02 20:35
My private instructor told me that double lip was going extinct and that I shouldn't use it. I use double lip because my top and bottom teeth don't close in the front, so I have to compensate somehow. Single lip feels really awkward to me, and it's nearly impossible to do. Anyone else with a simliar problem?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-11-02 20:42
I use double-lip embouchure. The secret of avoiding painful lips, I believe, is to develop the "smile" muscles at the corner of your mouth. I can'tg explain it any better than that, but Keith Stein has a good apologia for the method in his "The Artof Clarinet Playing," a book of great wisdom IMHO.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-11-02 20:43
I use double-lip embouchure. The secret of avoiding painful lips, I believe, is to develop the "smile" muscles at the corner of your mouth. I can't explain it any better than that, but Keith Stein has a good apologia for the method in his "The Artof Clarinet Playing," a book of great wisdom IMHO.
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Author: Lyn
Date: 2000-11-04 02:58
Double lip is not "going extinct" LOL. A lot of the major players have played and will continue to play double lip.
I still have my mouthpiece patch on, it doesn't seem to hurt anything. It really doesn't make a difference.
Build it up slowly. 10 minutes here and there, and aim for 1/2 hour. Then longer. Someday you will have to jump in with both feet full time, LOL. But - If you don't feel comfortable with it, don't use it for the auditions. (When are they?)
That Keith Stein book is one of the best out there. I'd get it anyway, even if you decide not to switch to double lip. It's just a good all around book for any clarinetist to have.
Lyn
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-11-04 03:26
the auditions are between the months of December and Marchish!
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-11-05 07:39
I read the pages in Stein's book, and he does not convince me (maybe I am a bit sceptical).
I already tried to go to double lip but could not stand it. Even with very little, and even almost without any bite pressure, I got problem in the inside skin of my upper lips. My teeth however seem normal and do not have sharp edges as far as I can see.
Also, I keep asking myself: Shouldn't the right way to overcome hard biting not be some mental effort, and concious relaxation instead of a painfully reminder tool? Likewise, if side support is missing, why not take care of it mentally?
Rene
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Author: mary
Date: 2000-11-05 17:54
maybe, but after 20 years of single lip and 10 years of flute, I've been switching to dbl lip over the past 6 months. love it! same as you suggested, I started gradually, 30 seconds to a minute per five minutes playing, and I haven't noticed any detriment to my flute playing. I think, as a doubler, that it's important to play your doubles daily when making the switch from single to double. That way you compensate gradually on the flute.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-11-06 03:09
I double flute/picc/clar/4xsax, in shows, often changing 60 times in a performance. With practice I can change in seconds from clarinet to flute. I play clarinet single lip. I cannot see how there could be an added problem (given practice) for flute if I went double lip.
A big advantage for double lip: When I am in shows I often play dangerously (for my ears) close to brass or percussion. I use musicians ear-plugs, but the effect of these is that the loudest sound I hear when playing clarinet is the click of mechanism transmitted through my teeth to my ears. This would not happen with couble lip.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-11-14 12:09
When people compare the tone merits of double lip or single lip are they making the comparison as independent listeners.
The player certainly is NOT in a position to evaluate the sound heard by a listener because a lot of sound goes direct throught the teeth & bones to the ear when using the conventional single lip, so of course the sound is more mellow with a double lip. Why go to all the trouble of double lip if it doesn't actually sound any better.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2001-11-15 20:51
I've used double lip since I started many years ago. That's how my first teacher taught me to play and it wasn't until some years later that I realized some players put their top teeth directly on the mouthpiece. Occasionally I'll switch to single lip for high notes if my lips are tired but go back asap. I just read about and bought some of the EZO stuff and I think it will help the bottom lip as it does get sore sometimes. A hint,though, don't follow the package directions which tell you to put the stuff under your bottom denture! Maybe "duct" tape would work!
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