 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dawn Anthes
Date: 2000-10-31 02:35
Hi All,
On a whim I bought a junky old horn off of Ebay. It was advertised as an alto, but the neck seemed a bit odd for an alto, shorter and pointing more upward than any alto I'd seen before. I've recieved it now. It is made by Coueneson. It's very old, it has two separate keys to play the Bb and to function as the register vent. I'd read about that before but had never seen it. It is in need of some care, but it has rather lovely wood.
Anyway, I'm a bit confused as to what it actually is. Comparing the pitch against my keyboard it seems to be pitched in E! I don't think such a thing was ever made, but I could be wrong.
I have a few possible explanations of this:
1. It didn't come with a mouthpiece. A regular Bb clarinet mouthpiece nearly fits. It's a bit loose. I added a bit of rolling paper and it is nice and snug. The neck looks too small for an alto mouthpiece, but I haven't yet been able to compare it with an alto mouthpiece. I've heard that some old horns need special mouthpieces otherwise the pitch is a bit wacky. Could that be the case here?
2. It could be a low pitch F basset horn. (was such a thing ever made?)
3. It's a very messed up Eb alto.
4. It is actually pitched in E.
Any thoughts?
-Dawn
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2000-10-31 12:19
You can normally tell a Basset Horn from an Alto Clarinet from two things:
1. Basset Horns have keys which allow you to play down to (written) C at the bottom of the range. Altos normally only go to Eb.
2. Basset Horns normally have the two hands in the same position as a soprano clarinet, with a huge extension down below this. Alto clarinets usually have the right hand much further down the clarinet. Look at photos.
I think the Basset Horn is designed to be played with a mouthpiece very similar to a soprano mouthpiece, so it sounds like you've got a Basset Horn.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-10-31 13:32
Dawn, You do have a very interesting problem, I'm reasonably knowledgable about alto cl's, but have only slight acquaintance with the basset horn. First, is it an extended range cl, ? the lower joint should have several inches more length and have at least one additional key for each little finger, to be a "basset" [IMHO]. Otherwise I'd consider it as an alto. I have an old Conn alto with the 2 [separate] register keys [and open holes] which dates in the early 1900's. Having several alto cl mp's, they generally are longer [1/4 -1/2 "] than a sop mp, and would lower the pitch slightly, perhaps that's your "in-between" uncertainity. If you dont have one, get an alto mp [from your friendly repair shop's junk box] and have the tenon shaped to fit the neck and then try it for pitch. Look on the horn for {HP or LP], prob LP, about A=435 for early 1900's. You might consult Brymer and/or Rendall's books for their learned discussion of the larger cl's. Please let us know of your conclusions-research!! Don
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Author: Dawn Anthes
Date: 2000-10-31 14:16
Thanks for your thoughts!
No, it doesn't have the low C extension on it. The top joint of the instrument is several inches longer than the lower. Unfortunately it doesn't have any discernable markings on it other than the maufacturer name, and that is very faint. There isn't even a serial number, which I find quite odd! I suspect that a different mouthpiece may solve my problems. I'll start my hunt this weekend for an appropriate mouthpiece for this thing.
thanks-
Dawn
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-10-31 17:56
It sounds to me as though you've probably got an old Eb alto clarinet, built to what's now known as the "High Pitch" standard. This pitch varied from place to place, but it can be as high as concert a=457 Hz. Instruments built in the 1920s and 1930s often have either LP or HP marked on them somewhere, in the vicinity of the serial number. If a High Pitch alto clarinet is out of adjustment (as most clarinets on eBay are) and perhaps not equipped with a soprano clarinet mouthpiece, instead of the larger alto mouthpiece, it could sound as though it's pitched in E instead of Eb by modern standards. LP, the marking for Low Pitch instruments, indicates modern pitch, set by international convenant in the 1920s at concert a=440 Hz.
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Author: Dawn Anthes
Date: 2000-10-31 21:35
Interesting. I had thought that pitch had been rising over time, not lowering.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-11-01 00:22
Dawn Anthes wrote:
>
> Interesting. I had thought that pitch had been rising
> over time, not lowering.
It has varied constantly up and down over centuries and from country to country. If you search you can find quite a bit of documentation. Strings tend to want to keep raising the pitch while singers fight against it.
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2000-11-02 08:33
Well, Dawn,
just for couiosity I once tried the opposite connection - I put an 'alto clarinet' mouthpiece (for my basset horn with approx. 17 mm bore diameter) on my A clarinet (bore diameter approx. 15 mm) - low E and low clarion B were approx. one semitone too low, while throat Bb was allmost 2 semitones too low.
Knowing this, your instrument could also be a standard ("low pitch") Eb alto if the bore diameter of your instrument (and the mouthpiece your have to search for) is large enough.
Until now, I didn't check the pitch results using a sop. cl. mpc. on my basset horn.
By the way, do you have a slide caliper rule to mearuse your instruments bore?
Arnold, the basset hornist
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-11-02 16:02
Dawn, If you wish to measure your alto's bore size, and make comparison to "modern" altos, you can find [what I refer to as "nominal" bores, likely measured at the bottom of the lower joint] in the supplier's and major mfgr's catalog-brochures. I'm sure a number of our reader-posters can give you more definitive advice, but I believe LeBlanc made altos with larger bores than the others, giving [in my limited experience] a much bigger sound. Some bores are given in inches, some in millimeters, so the conversion is based on 1 centimeter [10 mm] = 0.393700 inches, whereby a .70 inch bore is 17.78 mm. You no doubt are aware that the bore sizes generally increase as the cl's length and depth of pitch increase, so one would expect the alto to be larger than the basset, BUT, interestingly, LeBlanc's models 315 [basset horn] and 300 alto cl have the same listed 18.0mm, [.709 in ] bore in my older catalog. Have fun with identification!! Don
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-11-02 20:52
Don -
Leblanc's alto clarinets and basset horns have the same bore because they're made with the same reamer. All that differs is the position of the holes. The AC low Eb is a step lower Db on the BH. They lengthen the bottom of the lower joint about an inch to hold one extra key to reach the BH low C.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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