 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-23 18:50
Well, I'm progressing ok on my dixie playing. I still suck, but I'm comfortable with my sucking and I enjoy trying instead of feeling nervous. But right now, the problem I'm finding is I'm getting asked by another person who plays and enjoys dixie clarinet that they problem they have with my playing is I sound, and I quote, "too pretty". lol. I worked so hard on getting a good sound and . . . darn it! It worked!!! Well, I'm working on roughening it up, but does anyone have any tips? Currently use a Ridenour Zinner mouthpiece. I'm thinking about going with the widest Greg Smith cause I like his mouthpieces and the wider one will allow me plenty of flexibility for my scoops, smears, etc. while still being able to be played in my chamber ensembles and marches. Any other ideas or thoughts? Thanks.
Alexi
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-03-23 19:28
Don't forget about the "growl." Evem a lot of Benny Goodman's earlier playing (circa '34-'38) used extensive growling (a judicious use of a grating sort of flutter tongue).
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-23 19:41
Hmmmmmmmm. Ok. I'll give the superlight reeds a shot. Don't have them nor do I have access to getting them, but I can shave down my old reeds a lot, keep them around for a while, and see what that does me.
Alexi
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-03-23 20:50
Those Brilharts make a great "bad" clarinet sound for those interested in ethnic music too. I switch styles too often to use them though...
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-23 21:33
I don't think you need soft reeds or a different mouthpiece. You can might want to "loosen up" a little, but you don't need to sound "bad" or "rough." I've always played on medium hard reeds and a closed mouthpiece and have no problem sounding jazzy.
The main thing is to listen to enough of this music that you get a feel for the way it's accented and phrased and the way jazz players mess around with tone color. For instance, accents and articulation tend to be on the heavy side in this style. You can let notes "pop out," as long as it's the right notes you're allowing to pop. You do a lot by just trying to sound "gutsy."
One of the things that New Orleans-style players like Pete Fountain often do is use a very quick, but relatively wide vibrato as a kind of accent on certain notes. This is an important technique to pick up on in that style.
Another thing is that jazz players do is that they are quite variable with tone color, which they alter using their oral cavity and tongue--different vowel sounds, basically. There's a difference between "AH" or "OO" notes and "EE" notes, especially when you get up high. If you really open up your oral cavity, you can create growl-like sounds. Like I said, you have to listen to this music to pick up on this stuff.
By the way, a lot of the scooping/bending is really a just way of playing blue notes (flattened thirds, fifths, and sevenths). Somebody may disagree with me, but I think bending/scooping is probably less important to this style than it is to, say, klezmer.
Post Edited (2009-03-24 04:33)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2009-03-24 03:10
That's crap, you don't need to rough up your sound for any particular type of music. I hear that crap when people start playing klezmer. You need a pallet of tone color to play any piece of music. If you are producing your sound in the correct way, you will have access to these sounds with just about any mouthpiece and reed combination that works well together.
Pete Fountain is on my short list of "great" sounds and his sounds would work on just about any type of music. Be careful who you listen to when it comes to about sound, especially when if comes to "non standard" off legit playing, The people that I think play all these various styles have really nice sounds.
Tom Puwalski, Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer", "Clarinet Basic Training" and "More Klezmer Gig Tunes"
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2009-03-24 14:50
"Growling" is not produced by "flutter tonguing"-- just hum while blowing and you'll get the growling sound. It's actually quite easy. Some players are able to hum in tune or in harmony with the note they are playing, producing some very interesting effects!
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2009-03-24 22:55
what mrn wrote!! your current mouthpiece/reed combo is very likely just fine for dixieland. I played dixieland and orchestral music for years on a B&H 926 with 3.5 grade reeds. Worked fine. It's more in the phrasing and tonal coloring. Then just listen to some of the greats like Ed Hall, Peanuts Hucko. Please don't try to sound like Acker Bilk though (or Woody Allen) - that's just too individual. Anyway what's wrong with sounding "pretty"?
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Author: ned
Date: 2009-03-25 03:53
Alexi -There's no need for an artificial distinction of sound between music genres (i.e. roughening up my sound for dixie) .
You should ignore suggestions such as ''.......don't sound like 'bill smith' or 'joe bloggs'......... '', everyone has his/her story to tell, listen to as many players from 1917 onwards as you can, and develop your own style.
In a word or two - ''just play''.
chris mofffatt wrote: ''Please don't try to sound like Acker Bilk though (or Woody Allen) - that's just too individual''.
There's enough said about these two, but that last phrase! What do you mean? Is there some particular jazz player whom you deem to be the ideal? What's wrong with individuality?
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2009-03-25 13:58
Alexi,
Your sound is your sound. It's my personal opinion that thinking that one needs to have a "rough" sound to play jazz is an insult to jazz. If one listens to a good sampling of clarinetists throughout the history of jazz you'll hear a wide range of sounds. I would describe most as having a pretty decent sound. There are any number of fine jazz clarinetists you can use as a role model -- Bob Wilber readily comes to mind. However, each of them had their own sound.
It's my suggestion to stop worrying about your sound and, instead, focus on the style, feeling, and expression of the music. THAT is what's most important in jazz. Simply put, you have to have the music inside you.
It seems to me that it would be helpful to spend more time listening to a number of great jazz clarinetists and do everything you can to internalize the music and how you feel listening to it.
You can't go wrong with listening to Barney Bigard and Pee Wee Russell. There are so many fine jazz clarinetists. Barney and Pee Wee readily come to mind...as well as Bob Wilber.
Good luck!
Roger
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-03-25 14:03
Tom P is on the money here. Play with a good sound, great style and when you get comments like that smile and nod.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-03-25 14:35
Roughening up the sound..... try playing louder. It may be more of the issue. In this line of thought perhaps there isn't enough rhythm in your playing ...more accents might help...make the meter obvious to the listener.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-03-25 14:58
For me, the same mouthpiece/reed setup that works well for growling also works well for bending the pitch: open, free-blowing mouthpiece, with a reed a little less stiff than for classical music. I think the Hite Premiere is a brilliant jazz mouthpiece, for all that it's sold for students.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-03-25 18:00
V G comments above, partic. Lelia [thats what I like], Tom P, et al. To hear some Great Dixie/Jazz, I like the Riverwalk Jazz programs, [for us, 9PM on our NPR FM, Friday nites, 1 hour] live? from San Antonio, Ron Hockett on cl, Selmer 10's I believe, sure wish I could approach his technique, improvising and altissimo playing. Comments? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-25 18:06
Ron Hockett has some recordings on iTunes. I agree with Don; he's got a great jazz sound (which is not "rough" at all).
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-25 19:42
Yeah. I'm kinda on board with the thought that just cause it's jazz doesn't mean it has to be rough. And my favorite player (Paquito D'Rivera) has a GREAT tone and is an AMAZING jazzer.
On the other hand, I will definitely be working on manipulating my tone to be able to get that rough sound if I want it.
Thanks very much for the thoughts. I'm really enjoying playing dixie (although I use the term "playing" loosely!!!) Fun stuff!!!
Alexi
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-26 04:42
Another thing is, some people, some musicians even, are very familiar with a style, from listening a lot, so they can recognize when something sounds not in that style, but they are not especially good at understanding WHY that is. So it is possible that someone will just say "the sound" when they can't realize what the actual problem is. Maybe this is the case here (but maybe not).
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-03-26 11:10
Alexi,
Actually, it's all about your ears.
If you do not have a mental concept of the sound you are listening for, you will never know when you have gotten it. If you want a rough sound, listen to Woody Allen (not my choice at all). If you want a great sound playing dixieland, check out all the people that have been suggested above.
But I really like the sound of Eddie Daniels and Ken Peplowski. Nothing "rough" there.
HRL
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