 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Jeanie
Date: 2000-10-29 22:06
Hello. I just went clarinet shopping today cause I am looking for a professional clarinet to upgrade to, and I think I found a really good buy. I would just like to make sure it is. Ok, it is a Buffet Paris line clarinet, and it seems like it is a professional instrument. It is an older
instrument but is in like new condition, and has been refurbished. No scratches or anything that would compromise it's sound or the way it looked (besides a slight amount of tarnish). I didn't like the
mouthpiece that came with it so the seller agreed to switch mouthpieces to a selmer HS Star mouthpiece which I like better. Also he threw in on top of all that a Rovner ligature. It costs a total of $1,300. I'd say it's a good buy, but I have not bought a professional line
instrument before. Input is appreciated. Thanks
-Jeanie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-10-29 23:16
http://www.woodwind-shop.com/clarinetnumbers.html
I've listed a web address which should enable you to learn a bit about the horn by means of the serial number. Beyond that, I can't advise you. I play an R13 and like it a lot, and if I needed another horn I would probably either buy another one, used, or maybe one of the new Greenline horns by Buffet. Best wishes to you with your new horn!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-10-30 00:21
The mouth piece is worth about $25 and the lig is another $15. No big deal either way. if it is an older R13 it may sell for 6 to 7 hundred bucks. may teh seller an offer and see what he says.
Best of luck
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anji
Date: 2000-10-30 00:25
Jeanie,
Did it play well for you? Any chance to play multiple horns in comparison?
Have you a familiar mouthpiece that you trust? Too many variables will smear the comparison. Could you audition this with your teacher listening, you know for guidance?
There are some pages devoted to auditioning horns that I could send.
The disadvantage of older Buffets is the design differences incorporated after the mid 1960's. Some of the modifications made the horns more flexible in many settings. Alot of the really old horns (Benny Goodman's era) had wonderful atone but wer hard to tune and had odd "points" of resistance.
Ken is right on the money with a recommendation I would make, the R-13 "Greenline" horns are a real solid value (more than your current item) and well worth an extended practice session.
Will you get a warantee on this horn?
http://www.boosey.com/Instruments/Startframe.htm under tips and more can offer a serial number search to estimate the age of the horn. The page also show alot of the features of different models.
This is more about finding an instrument that you want to live and work with than the money... there are lots of choices from $1000 to $2000 dollars.
Good luck
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-10-30 00:54
The Buffet list actually contains some interesting errors ...
There's a pretty complete list of numbers right here on Sneezy. In fact, it's under serial numbers in the pull-down menu at the top of the page!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-10-30 01:59
Check the serial number and then find out its age (serial number list is right here on sneezy). This price may or may not be reasonable depending on the age of the horn.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-30 03:49
Bob, respectfully, $600-700 for a refurbished Buffet R-13??
Refurbished means new pads, tenon & key corks, bumpers, springs replaced as needed, keys regulated, keys swedged as needed, etc. AND, this is a LOCAL BUY .. where you can touch, feel, blow, etc. And if its a serial number, say above 115,000 (1971 or 1972) ... its probably worth, minimum, $900 as a starting point.(I am still dying to get my hands on one fo the "old" 150th Anniversary clarinets. Folks like Clark Fobes have very nice things to say about them) Agree that the mouthpiece & ligature are $40-50 items. ((Of course, this one has tarnish? Since when do we have tarnish on a refurbished instrument. Maybe it was a lazy man's overhaul???))
Seriously, too many of us watch UN-successful ebay auctions and I think we get lose track of value. Check the last 60 days & see how many R-13's sold under $700. That's R-13 as in poly-cylindrical bore, not a pre-1955 "wanna be" R-13. (Many, many of the clarinets listed on eBay are listed incorrectly. Like "C-13/International" !)
Could be a real good clarinet. GET IT CHECKED OUT BY ANOTHER LOCAL, UNAFFILIATED REPAIR TECH OR YOUR TEACHER.
Best of luck.
mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeanie
Date: 2000-10-30 19:31
LOL wow I didn't know I was being ripped off. I'm only 16 and I am getting a pro horn because I plan to go through college and ever further (if possible). I don't get to do much compare shopping because I live in a little country town in Michigan. I checked out the
internet and THOUGHT I had a pretty good idea what a nice pro clarinet would cost, but I guess I was wrong. If you know of any shops that would have a pretty good variety of pro clarinets that are cheaper in Michigan, please tell me. Thanks again for all your help.
Also another thing that is making me frustrated is my dad doesn't trust anything on the internet, and I haven't tried a ton of instruments so I wouldn't know which one to pick. So I have to try them out and see how their sounds are and resistence ect ect. If you have any ideas for me, please respond or you can email me if you like.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-10-31 02:26
http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/Equipment/Intonation.html
Here is another web address from Clark Fobes website. It discusses characteristics of Buffet clarinets from different time periods. It would be useful in assessing the worth of an older horn.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jodi
Date: 2000-10-31 03:31
Keep in mind that if you are going to be paying $1300 for a USED horn, you could be getting really nice new one for only a few hundred dollars more. Maybe you should wait a few months and save a little more to get a new instrument. (You can get an R13 new for around $1800 through Weiner Music, I believe....)
Best of luck,
Jodi
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-10-31 15:16
Jeanie -
There's a huge variation among instruments, even of the identical model. The challenge is to find one that's in tune, responsive and feels good to you. It's easy to get confused when you play a bunch of them, particularly when you compare brands.
Probably the best way to get a good horn is to go to a top player and ask for help picking one out. They do this all the time for their students. Your teacher may be able to make an introduction. Otherwise, just call up and ask nicely. If you're near Detroit, try one of the players in the Symphony. If you're up north, try Interlochen. Mark's son went there, so he may be able to introduce you.
One thing you can be sure of. If you become a professional player, you will probably not stick with the clarinet you buy when you go off to college. The pros go to a small number of expensive, specialist setup people, who get clarinets (mostly Buffet R-13s), sometimes in semi-finished condition, and do many hours of hand work.
When you get to college, your teacher there will probably recommend that you get a new mouthpiece, and probably a matching barrel. Assuming your present clarinet is decent, these will make a lot more difference than getting a new instrument. You can't go wrong with a matched moutpiece and barrel from, say, Greg Smith, but you may want to wait to see what your college teacher recommends.
The only exception to the above process would be if you can afford a Rossi, all of which are hand-made. And even there, he makes several models....
Finally, take some comfort. You can do very well with, say, a Buffet E-13 coupled with a decent mouthpiece. A couple of years ago, I played (BBb contra) in the clarinet choir at the Clarinet Fest. The first-chair player had a battered R-13, and the third section was full of college kids playing brand new Selmer Signatures, Leblanc Opuses and even Rossis, and many of them could hardly play a note.
A new, top of the line clarinet is a joy to hold and play, but it's *you* who make the music, and you can do that on almost any instrument.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-31 19:02
Jodi is correct on the $1800, but lets consider other ASSOCIATED costs.
Shipping $30 to $60
New Mouthpiece - $50 (assuming Vandoren 5RV, etc. not a high-end mouthpce)
New Ligature - $20 to $75
(Additional Weiner) Crack guarantee - $100+
Sales tax, if you try out in person - $150 (give or take)
Shipping of "try out" clarinets, if not in person - $50 to $100
Case Cover - $50 (its new, why let it get all scratched up)
*Warranty for 1st year from Buffet - $0*
To the $1300 used R-13 we would have to add:
Sales Tax - $100 (you wouldn't want to buy it out the backdoor w/no receipt, right)
IMO, apples-to-apples we are probably talking about $1,400 v. $2,050. The $1400 would be a little high for an R-13 w/some OXIDATION ! : - (
mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2000-10-31 21:53
Getting a baby is a difficult thing to do....
it's all a question of taste.... Some guy could fall in love with a clarinet, as another could throw away the same instrument....
I don't know how you're with about money, but my opinion is that, once you have a good baby, you keep it for long.... whatever you do to get it.... if you really wanna get to professional level, you need a baby that suits you.
Anyway..... Buffets are probably the most popular instruments worldwide .....
The professional models include :
normal models :
R13
R13 Greenline
RC
RC Greenline
Prestige models :
Festival
RC prestige
Vintage
Elite
www.boosey.com
All models are of similar quality of construction... the basic difference between the normal and prestige models is the wood..
The normal models have stained wood and the prestige models have unstained and better quality wood.....
What I have noticed while trying buffet clarinets at the factory in Mantes La Ville (near Paris), was that prestige models had a very good "good instrument" average..... and the normal models had a lower average..... But.... sometimes you could fall on the rare one that would beat the prestige models....
That's my baby story :
Played 4 years on an old Boosey&Hawkes Regent.... Then got myself a buffet E13.... which I played 5 years.... and with which I have been very happy.
Last year for my 18th birthday, I decided to get myself a pair of factory buffets.
That's how I got my babies...
I went to the local shop... tried everything they had... Selmer, Leblanc, Buffet..... I liked the Buffet RC model....
But wasn't satisfied with it....
I went to the buffet Factory near Paris.... (4 hours in the train from Geneva)... spent 3 days with Carlos...... trying all their Models.... from R13 to Elite.....
I liked the RC model and the Elite....
Hum.. Elite was a bit too expensive... 3000 $ + 3000 $ = 6000 $ (yep... no....)
So.. I decided... RC.... I tried at least 50 instruments..... all of them were RCs.. I compared prestige and standard models.. and decided prestige was better...... till.... I saw Monica and Erica (these are my instruments)..... These babies were hidden in some corner of the factory..... They are normal RC's but when I tried them, they were just the best I had tried.. most cool sound... most cool everything..... I fell in love with them...... I decided I wanted to get them.... I spent another day... making mechanicall adjustments with Carlos (the engineer at buffet).... and Hupetsikee back home.. with my new toys... they costed me..... 2500 $ each... but it was worth it..... I know I will still have these two babies when I'm 80 years old...
Anyway..... don't buy any instrument before having tried it..... go to a dealer which has a big choise of instruments..... compare models.... and get the one you find the coolest..... Even if you have to pay the price.....
If you're not ready yet to have YOUR baby.... get a model that you like which has a good price.... and get your final baby when you can afford it......
I don't believe it's necessary to get through the long selection procedure if you're not gonna go for a professional carreer...
Don't rush.. take your time to choose the right instrument.... it took me more than a year to find Monica and Erica...
Money is not important you can allwayz find some..... a good instrument is much more difficult to find.....
But... :
It's not the instrument that makes the music, it's the musician..... Give a plastic @!#$ to Sabine Meyer and it will sound beautifull.... Remember that !
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-10-31 23:11
Jeanie,
If you can afford a new instrument then you could visit International Musical Suppliers in Chicago (it ends up being a long day trip from most of lower Michigan) or hit The Woodwind and the Brasswind in Indiana. You can try out the instruments right there (and they have a great selection) and buy it - or have them ship it to Michigan so you can ... ahem ... pay the sales tax on your Michigan Income Tax form ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeanie
Date: 2000-11-01 22:03
I have found out new info, it is a buffet made in 1969, I still don't
know the actual model, alls I know is it sounded good to me, and I like it. Also I know it's a paris line wooden clarinet from
buffet. We talked the price down to 900 instead of 1300. Thanks for
the advice.
-Jeanie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
