 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-03-22 12:33
I know that we all like to discuss Mozart, Beethoven, Brahams, Hindemith, Poulenc, Copland, etc. Sometimes we discuss jazz and klezmer. Here's my question to all of you: How many of you really know, listen to, and follow today's popular music scene?
When I was younger (in the 60s and 70s) I'd listen to some, but now I'm so out of it. On occasion I'll listen to a little, but I really don't care for most of what I hear. What about the rest of you?
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-03-22 12:56
I actually like the vast majority of music styles. Although I'm not a major fan of rap or hip hop, I do listen to it on occasion (usually when friends are listening to it). What I cannot stand though is modern "alternative rock," and I almost never listen to that.
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-03-22 13:02
The question posed by clarinetguy:
How many of you really know, listen to, and follow today's popular music scene?
"Really know" is a key phrase. I "really know" nothing about today's popular music scene. In fact, I was probably never adequately indoctrinated into my generation's (early baby boomer) comfort level with rock and all versions that followed. My mother listened to a classical music station all day and evening (WQXR in New York). She was an opera devotee, as well. And while she rarely attended while I was growing up, she always tuned in on Saturdays to the Texaco Met Opera broadcast.
I was never able to easily equate the Shirelles or the Four Tops--as entertaining as they were-- with Mozart. I liked the Beattles, still do. And that's roughly where my contemporary music education stopped--my college years. Until my kids were in high school and then college themselves I was nearly oblivious to the music rage of the moment.
Now, I find that my kids have pretty good taste in pop music. Although both played instruments for 12 years--violin and trumpet---they've put them aside. Yet their training informs their listening in wonderful ways. For a recent birthday, my daughter and her boyfriend burned a CD for me that included 25 tracks of their favorite music--something I'd asked them about. It's great to play on the car stereo. I even bought a CD to hear more of one particular artist, who interestingly has a sound that seems to be a mix of early rock and 50's pop.
I'm curious to know how others have experienced popular music. On the poetry thread, clarnibass contributed an amusing version of a rap number---of all things.
Post Edited (2009-03-22 15:21)
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2009-03-22 14:25
Since I teach general music as well as band and chorus, it's necessary to know what the students are listening to, so I try as much as I can to listen to their radio stations. Sometimes I report to them that I can't listen to hip/hop because I'm not old enough to hear such language. That gets them laughing, but it's really not funny because some of that stuff is shocking. I can only hope that most of them don't understand it.
There was a comment made earlier about Alternative Rock, which one of my kids listens to, and I have to say that what I respect about it is that it tends to be more creative, in my opinion, than other styles that are out there. It's easy to do what everybody else does but more difficult to buck the trends.
I've listened to some country, too, because some of the kids do. It's inoffensive for the most part.
Pop and rock styles are pretty diverse and not easy to get a handle on from a short listen on one radio station. It's pretty tuneful, although I object again to some of the language and subject matter. It's pretty telling that, although the kids listen to it outside of school, much of it I could not play in school without getting fired.
Sue
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-03-22 14:29
I grew up listening to folk music more than anything, with the occasional "Longines Symphonette" for classical. I migrated by my young teens to rock music (any genre), and wanting to make some money to buy a car and other things my mother couldn't afford for me, learned to play guitar and bass. I kept up with the music scene more or less constantly for the next 15 years because I was playing rock & CW from the late 60s to the early 80s, along with learning and playing polkas (the best paying gigs I ever had bar studio work!). I dropped out for the next 10 years, then started appreciating classical music because of a wonderful station and announcers that used to exist here in Detroit.
However, during some of that time I was bringing up 3 wonderful boys, who introduced me to some of the groups that are or have been popular during that time. While they've done a good amount of pre-selection for me (they know my tastes) I've found some amazing musicianship and found that the song writing abilities to be just as good if not better than the groups I grew up with. It's also been fun to listen to my kids tell me how much they enjoy the groups I grew up with
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2009-03-22 14:45
In my teens (late 70s, early 80s) I was kind of up on who the cool performers were, and also the popular ones. Nowadays I don't care to hear recorded music at all. In theory I can enjoy most any live music*, but in practice rock/pop/rap/etc tend to be amplified too loud for my comfort. (*Another exception: I'm usually really annoyed by whiny singing with strummed acoustic guitar accompaniment.)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-22 15:06
I'm 51 years old and totally out of touch with current popular music. I spent five years in the Navy during the early 80s and lost touch with the whole music scene during that period of my life. After returning to civilian life I spent very little time listening to current music and have continued in that mode up to the present. What little I do hear on the radio or being played around me, doesn't interest or impress me at all. In other words, I have become.......
.....a fogey.
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-03-22 15:38
What I find interesting is that quite a few of my students (I teach high school music) don't like the music that is out today, whether it be hip hop, rap, rock, techno, etc. They prefer the music of my teens (80's) and earlier. One student I have in my guitar class, enjoys music from the 40's on up. I quizzed her on the spot in front of everyone and she recognized, with bad singing, Frank Sinatra and Cole Porter songs. She nailed it.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-22 15:42
I don't listen too much new "popular" music. I dislike Rap and don't consider what I've heard of it as music in the true meaning of the term. It's more like poetry set to rhythm, sometimes not even that but again, since I don't like to listen to it I don't have that much to base that opinion on.
I keep 5-6 CDs of Oldies, music from the 50s and 60s along with the old swing players, Goodman, Shaw, Hermann and several more contemporary jazz clarinetists in my car. I also keep a collection of Klezmer CDs, The 6 Bach Suites played by Yo Yo Ma, a dozen "classical" selections and several movie and musical CDs. I even listen to the local classical music station when there's something I enjoy hearing is on. When I travel in my wife’s car, she has the SUV; we listen to a lot of folk music too from the 60s and 70s. So I guess you can say that I listen to many types and styles of music when I drive but not the new "popular" music unless it's on Leno or Letterman, when I can stay up that late, and then half the time I change channels because I can't stand it. Please note, only half the time.
I play so many concerts that I rarely come home and turn on a CD or radio.
ESP (Peabody/BSO)
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-03-22 15:43
I would say I know a bit about popular music today. After all, I'm 16½. I pretty much listen to any time of music except for three. I can't stand country, screamo, or rap/hip-hop. Country just because I don't like the style, but the other two are just garbage. Then again, I'm not a typical teenager either because I can listen to classical and not go crazy. My favorite genre of music is probably somewhere between pop and light rock with maybe a little classical mixed in.
- Martin
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2009-03-22 16:12
In reference to my earlier post, I wanted to add that I am 52. I vowed that I would not become an adult who completely ignored the music of today and only listened to what was popular in my youth. So I make the effort, so as not to become a dinosaur.
As musicians, we more than anyone know that when a new style is introduced it is historically met with scorn. Look at Stravinsky, Goodman, early rock and roll, even the beginnings of Beethoven. If artists weren't encouraged to push the envelope we'd still be listening to Greogian chant. We owe it to new artists to at least listen to what they have to say.
That's my speech -
Sue
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-03-22 16:46
Thanks for your interesting responses!
I was quite excited about ten years ago when the swing revival movement started. I really enjoyed groups like Cherry Poppin Daddies, Squirrel Nut Zippers, and Big Bad Voodoo Daddy. It was music that my wife and I and our kids could enjoy. This music is still out there, but it's a shame that the swing revival movement didn't last longer.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-03-22 16:49
Buddy Holly
Perhaps it's his simplicity. Perhaps it's because it was music I grew up with.
Perhaps it was from a gentler, more innocent time. Perhaps because it was the beginning of a new era of music.
Either way - his songs and style continually move me.
...GBK (who is also huge fan of the early British rock groups and a closet Country music listener)
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-03-22 16:58
Yes, I agree with Sue. I still find it hard to listen to lots of todays rap and such, especially, with the language used. I grew up listening to a lot of hip hop and rap. As I think back to my days as a junior high kid, break dancing with friends, there was some great stuff that folks consider "old school" now. Times now, there is so much to listen to. The writers of gangsta rap of today may be considered pioneers of a greater appreciated genre when I am 65. I wont listen to them but good or bad, they are following in the footsteps of Elvis and Hendricks, both of which multiple generations enjoy today. This revelation with gangsta rap is recent and was passed on to me by a colleague of mine. It was a hard pill to chew but he made sense to me about the whole issue. I believe our work as musicians and music teachers is to give young (and old) people the tools and opportunities to better understand what they are listening to and possibly creating on their own.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-03-22 17:08
jsc wrote:
> I still find it hard to listen to lots
> of todays rap and such, especially, with the language used.
I listened to a lot of blues; the language was no better then than it is now - you just had to understand the language. Or not. Read the lyrics to Led Zeppelin's "The Lemon Song". Then read the lyrics of some of its roots (from Howling Wolf and Robert Johnson) from the 30s.
Nothing changes, except we understand the references in modern music, don't understand the references in older music (or choose to ignore them).
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2009-03-22 17:22
Mark, that's very true. Don't you think, though, that they used more euphemisms "back then"? Maybe you're right - but I can remember digging for real meanings in songs when I was younger, and now- well, they are pretty clear. My dad would say, "no class".
Sue
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2009-03-22 17:26
And - the prevelence of the "f" word alone is disgusting. There are certainly more words in the English language...
Sue
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-03-22 17:38
Recently, I was in a car with some colleagues and the younger one of us, put some interesting music on. It was some rap by someone whose name I forget and although I didn't care for the lyrics, the feel of the music was cool. That's another thing, not everyone listens to the actual words. In many cases, you can't hear the words because of how it's played. This can be said about a lot of pop music. That is, the part of people listening to the actual words. The deeper meaning thing is important to a lot of artists but I couldn't tell you the lyrics to most of the music I've listened to. It just sounds good to me.
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Author: Arhoolie
Date: 2009-03-22 17:41
The f word is ok as a exclamation but not as a comma.
I can find something I like in virtually every style of music. There are certain genres that contain a lot of very poor music - country, hip-hop and heavy metal spring to mind. But there are artists I love in all of these areas. I think people get too hung up on labels. There is really only good and bad music. Disposable pop music can be just right when you are in the mood, or at other times only something with depth will do. Sometimes you want burger, other times steak.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-03-22 17:46
3dogmom wrote:
> And - the prevelence of the "f" word alone is disgusting.
But why? In context it makes sense. It's not a word I bandy about lightly, but it sure makes sense when I'm working on my car.
When I was a sailor, words we're talking about were contextually appropriate in almost every sentence. The movie "The Last Detail" ius the only movie I've seen about sailors that got the language right, and it's nothing that I would have "banned" my children from seeing as long as we were past the "repetition" phase of learning language. There was a scene or two that I might have been a bit uncomfortable seeing with them, but that's just my own prudishness.
So, in the context of Rap music, the F and W and M and C words are contextually appropriate. Irregardless of whether you like them or not.
What we do musically depends on context the same way. We might not understand or like some tonalities or phrasing in a piece of music, but we have to remember the contextual appropriateness of what we're doing.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-03-22 17:56
Most of my music sampling I find happens in my car. On a sunny day that calls for the windows to be rolled down , I listen to the top 40 station, and can actually sing along with some of the songs (much to the surprise of my husband and kids), but I also tire of that fairly quickly. When I'm in a good mood and have a little ways to travel, I stick in some James Taylor or the like, or sometimes find the '90s station. On the way to church on Sunday mornings, I listed to the local bluegrass station. If I need to think or to chill out, I listen to classical/public radio.
I enjoy playing clarinet, but find that I rarely, or purposefully listen to clarinet music. Never listen to opera on purpose, and get worn out with symphonic pieces after a while. Complicated music only adds to the stress of my day. Simple, straightforward music like acoustic guitar, piano, Celtic music and varieties of world music really float my boat.
In my opinion, the use of terribly foul language is just not necessary. Many of the most poignant, emotionally-expressive and heart-tugging music has been written without the use of any curse words. Some may argue that curse words are appropriate in certain contexts, but I disagree. It's kinda like the fine line between nude art and pornography. At what point does music become pornographic and is no longer artistic?
Post Edited (2009-03-22 18:06)
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2009-03-22 18:18
Mark,
You are also right about that, and I have been known to, ah, use that word on occasion. And my kids have heard me. Chaucer used it, it's not that big a deal.
So I thought about what exactly my problem was with some rap. I guess it's the overtly sexual use of the word as a verb in a context which views women as objects. There is a place for everything and I don't believe in censorship - but I don't think that young children should hear this or see the videos. But they do. My opinion is that we're going to see a negative backlash from that population of kids when they grow older. And I don't think the music that you and I grew up with had that effect, even though our parents felt it would. Remember how risque they thought that Elvis was? And the Rolling Stones?
And as an answer to the original question, what do I listen to, I do make myself aware of that music to be current. I like the beat - but there is no melody and I just don't like the language. There is one particular artist that one of my kids got into listening to some years ago, and I tried to listen - man, was it foul. Just not my taste, I guess.
And when was the last time we heard the clarinet on the Top 40? Beatles "When I'm 64"?
Sue
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Author: Arhoolie
Date: 2009-03-22 18:56
Certainly the unrelenting sexualisation of EVERYTHING in pop music is something that concerns me. If I go to a gym and there is a video channel showing it quickly strikes you that every song is accompanied by nudity and suggestive dancing. I'm all for naked ladies but when money is changing hands it makes me uncomfortable. And a music video is just a sales thing so money is changing hands. Going back 20 years you never saw that sort of thing. We have gone from the odd risque moment, which is kinda nice, to constant booty in your face. And pole dancing is the new rock and roll! Worrying.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-03-22 19:24
3dogmom wrote:
> And when was the last time we heard the clarinet
> on the Top 40? Beatles "When I'm 64"?
The Beatles used clarinets on 6 different recordings:
1. When I'm Sixty Four - 3 clarinetists: Robert Burns, Harry MacKenzie and Frank Reidy
2. Honey Pie - 2 clarinetists: Raymond Newman and David Smith
3. I Am The Walrus - 1 clarinetist: Gordon Lewin
4. Good Night - 1 clarinetist: name not archived
5. Here Comes The Sun - 1 clarinetist: name not archived
6. A Day In The Life - 2 clarinetists: Basil Tschaikov and Jack Brymer
...GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-03-22 19:56
Arhoolie wrote:
> Going back 20 years you never saw that sort
> of thing.
You most certainly didn't go to the same concerts I did in the
60s, 70s and 80s. The only difference was that the writhing was live on stage instead of being mass-produced videos.
You mean you only watched "Soul Train" for the music?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-23 05:07
>> How many of you really know, listen to, and follow today's popular music scene? <<
Really know and follow today's popular scene? Not so much. Really listen to? Yes. I sometimes listen even to pop or rap songs and even the stuff that is on radio/tv. But actually it was modern music, improvised music, avant garde, etc. that is the reason I also listen to this pop and rap. Might sound strange, but by understanding that music I also learned something global about all music and that is to sort of "bypass" the "bad" associations and not judge music like that, and instead stay objective. I think a lot of people like music a lot for very general reasons, as opposed to specific reasons.
I think this is why some people don't like, for example, rap. It reminds them a lot of things they don't like and they can't listen objectively. Sure, a lot of it is not good, but some is and it is possible to look beyond the "problems" but you have to WANT to look at it this way, which of course you don't have to.
Of course it's also ok not to like some styles, there is nothing wrong with that. But better not to judge too much about those styles.
Re rap, I actually don't like MOST of what I hear on radio/tv from American rap (the most common on tv). But this is the most mainstream Ameircan rap. I especially like one local rap group, and I've heard some great rap groups from many different places (including America).
Re the curses, I think it's a much bigger deal in some areas/countries than others. I know most Americans that come here (there are many) are usually shocked from what we have on TV, even during the day. Cursing is just not a big deal here usually, but it depends on context also.
About the "f" word..... it's just a f***ing word!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-03-23 12:13
Though my favorite musical genre is classical (including contemporary), I do keep up with modern non-classical genres, up to a point, because I compose music as a hobby and because in real life, if any, I'm a movie critic. I write for a film magazine ("Scarlet"); I frequent the magazine's chat site; I'm working on a book about dark musicals (influenced by film noir, horror and surrealism); and I don't like making myself look any more ignorant than necessary when discussing a soundtrack. My editor probably doesn't want to see me writing rubbish on the subject, either...!
Keeping up isn't a chore, because I like most types of music, except dumbed-down elevator music or so-called "Easy Listening." Also never much cared for the CW sound. My favorite rock and soul music era is from the 1950s through 1960s but I think there's a lot of good stuff happening now, especially in alternative rock. Jazz -- love it, from the 1920s to now. Blues -- love that, too. Mixed feelings about rap. I don't dislike the genre as such, but I've got no respect for the violent, anti-woman and racist lyrics of gangsta rap. The cusswords don't bother me as long as they're meaningful and not just used robotically to fill out a rhythm.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2009-03-23 12:15)
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-03-23 12:32
I think music today can be compared to prime time TV today. We have become de-sensitized and what used to be frightening and vulgar are now commonplace and we think nothing of it. When I was growing up, prime time programming included Little House on the Prairie, Fantasy Island, Nova, and various sitcoms that were very funny without the use of vulgar language or shocking, bloody crime scenes. Now, my 14-year old watches Heroes and Hell's Kitchen with us. Part of me thinks that I should not be OK with this, although I admit I love a good CSI or 24 episode.
In my opinion it just shows that we have lost some level of respect for ourselves and for others when we casuallly throw around curse words in front of our children, our elders, our friends. Or, when we purposely put them into music just for shock value. It takes more and more to shock us now.
I am NOT a prude, but I do think that it's time we bring respect back into our core value system, and changing the way we view language is just a piece of that. Without respect, it's a very selfish, sad world. Kinda makes me think of the Star Wars episode when Aniken goes to the dark side...lack of respect causes fear, fear causes anger, anger causes violence...violence causes death...or something like that.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-03-23 13:33
Though I left my heart in 1986 :-) there's an odd contemporary group that still interests me... some with a lot of radio play, some more minority.
I even went to a real live gig the other day.
About the only thing I avoid these days is the painful angst of groups like Coldplay. Also, the coolest jazz often leaves me... cold.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-03-23 16:07
I listen to Beethoven Bruckner and Mahler alot...
David Dow
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-23 17:17
Funny thing..I almost posted this question myself the other day. We talk so much about matters of musical taste on here with regard to classical music, I thought it might be interesting to see what everyone had to say about popular music and how their popular music preferences might reflect their ideas about classical music and vice versa.
I actually listen to quite a bit of popular music, but most of it is older than me or at least sounds like it is. My Dad had rather eclectic taste in music, and I acquired many of my own musical preferences from listening to his record collection. I listened to a lot of big bands when I was kid--and later, modern jazz. I taught myself to play guitar from listening to Dad's Kingston Trio records.
Not to say that my musical tastes are 50 years out of date--I do like a lot of stuff from the 60's and 70's, too--Crosby, Stills, and Nash, Elton John, Paul Simon, James Taylor, Stevie Wonder, and Fleetwood Mac, especially. So my musical tastes are really only about 35 years out date.
Don't really listen to much country, but I went to college at Texas A&M University, and my friends and I would go dancing every Thursday night, so I'm pretty well acquainted with that world, too. I generally like bluegrass better than "modern country."
As far as "current" (and almost current) artists/groups go, here are a few I like:
Dave Matthews Band
Norah Jones
Buena Vista Social Club (Cuban jazz)
The Chieftains (from Ireland)
The Tannahill Weavers (from Scotland)
Speaking of popular music liked by classical musicians, I have a somewhat unusual (and quite good) album of Beatles tunes performed by the King's Singers (a male a capella singing group from England, and another favorite currently-performing group of mine). I didn't realize this when I bought it, but I later learned that it was a favorite album of Hungarian composer Gyorgy Ligeti (of "Atmospheres" fame), who had a particular fondness for their rendition of "Penny Lane." I have to say, I rather like it, myself, although I never would have guessed it would have been one of Ligeti's favorites, too.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-03-23 17:22
mrn wrote:
Crosby,
> Stills, and Nash, Elton John, Paul Simon, James Taylor, Stevie
> Wonder, and Fleetwood Mac, especially.
As long as Peter Green was with Fleetwood Mac ... Santana's cover of "Black Magic Woman" is almost as good as Peter's original
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-03-23 19:05
I really like Pink Floyd and Led Zep...Steely Dan when I am in a more urbane mood.
David Dow
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