 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: PhillipS
Date: 2009-03-19 04:28
I'm currently playing a YCL-622 low C bass that belongs to my university. After some 15 nutcrackers and more gigs than the soprano has gotten me (I spend the majority of my time on soprano), the middle clarion register remains treacherous. Altissimo, no problem, the low register rocks, but the top staff G and G# remain tentative and stuffy. Slurs and long phrases pose no trouble, but articulation with those notes can be something of a terror. I'm playing on a Hite mouthpiece with Vandoren 3's or 3.5's.
In high school I had the good fortune of being able to use a Buffet Prestige which sang beautifully with a C* but had no luck with the Hite. (No clarion problems there!) With this Yamaha it is just the opposite. The Hite rounds out the sound, but the C* and the Vandorens feel even more insecure. I am beginning to think that maybe the horn itself is trouble, despite the fact that I've taken it to the school's repair guy (whom I trust and has done wonderful work) numerous times.
So we're playing Prokofiev's Cinderella in April (great part!), and I really want to find a setup that will help focus the middle and lower clarion. Does anyone have any insights toward a mouthpiece that might be inclined toward this particular horn? Has anyone else had similar difficulties? I'm thinking of biting the bullet and ordering up a Grabner to try. But any insight as to the stuffiness on this horn or mouthpiece/reed combos that could compliment the horn or alleviate this trouble would be greatly appreciated!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-19 04:42
You say there is no problem when playing anything legato but I'm curious what about playing legato like this:
You can ignore the tempo, it doesn't really matter how fast (or slow) you play this as long as the intervals from low to clarion are completely legato (just pressing register key). Try both loud and soft.
When playing like this, do you notice any problem in response for some of the clarion notes compared with others?
As far as mouthpiece, I've tried many that improved response and many that didn't. But I found that when there is some sort of 'quirky' area for a bass clarinet (and pretty much any bass has that) then although some mouthpiece made it worse, no mouthpiece completely solved the problem. OTOH, when this 'quirk' was improved by other methods, almost any decent mouthpiece felt much better. Though I'm not familiar with the bass clarinet model you have enough to say anything specific.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-03-19 13:37
Clarion G and G# are problematic on almost all bass clarinets. It's part of the beast.
Walter Grabner's bass mouthpieces would be worth the price. When I tried his contra mouthpiece, it immediately solved the same problem on a BBb contra.
We could use Ed Planaker's advice here, on how he teaches his students to play these notes securely, particularly when slurring up from the low register.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-03-19 14:27
Tks [again] Ken, for your contributions. I just Search[ed] for YCL-622's description and re-found your comprehensive "dissertation" re: register keying on many basses, back in 2004. I have been wondering if PS's problems may be due to lack of or malfunction of any double register keying mechanisms. Yamaha did some research-patenting on this a few years back, and I never did find out, or have a playing opportunity to compare Y's mech's with my Selmer 33 and later Sels. AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-19 14:39
Although I don't believe there is a magic bullet for this problem (although a top tier bass would help!) I will agree with Ken that Walter's mouthpieces can greatly ease you experience.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: William
Date: 2009-03-19 15:32
I had thought that my new Pomarico "jazz 1" crystal mouthpiece had solved the "grunt" problem on my Prestige low C, but when I tried claribass's intervals (a while ago) I discovered that there still was a problem with the upper note response. However, it was very much minimized by the Pomarico--and a little moreso after returning to my great Walter Grabner CX_BS mouthpiece. The Pomarico is good, but the Grabner is great, and I offer this only in support of Ken's advice that using a quality mouthpiece helps to improve the clarion G#5 & A5 note responses on the bass clarinet. But still, dealing with those notes is a necessary "evil" in learning to play the bass clarinet.
Afterthought, part of your problem may be the bass itself, especially if the octave mechanizm isn't properly adjusted or if there is any small leak anywhere.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-19 16:46
That's a common problem on the bass, the resistance of the notes above the treble clef, G to B, some worse than others. It sounds to me that it's a problem in the instrument. No one mouthpiece will solve this problem though finding the right one might make it easier but probably at the expense of something else. The only way you will know is to try several. I recommend several mouthpieces for students to try. I use a C* touched up by Dave McClune my self, it plays great but that does not mean it's the right one for you. The first thing you should do is take it to a professional bass clarinet player and ask them if they can identify the problem. You will find some help in some of my bass clarinet articles in my new web page that have appeared in the Clarinet Journal over the years. If you need additional advise feel free to contact me via e-mail. ESP (Peabody-BSO)
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-03-19 17:35
Just a minor point about the Hite mouthpiece. When I switched from a Vandoren b44 on my Leblanc 400 I found it much easier to control the instrument throughout its range. However, the Hite (mine, at least) is smaller in diameter than the Vandoren and it was impossible to clamp my Optimum ligature close enough to the window to get a good seal. I corrected this by cementing strips of cork to the back of the ligature, allowing it to clamp higher up.
Best regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: sultan
Date: 2009-03-19 19:14
The design of a bass clarinet plays a large part in your problem. Double register basses generally switch registers between clarion G#/Ab and A, with the G# (and G) being the most awkward because they are at the limit of the lower register clarion. In single register basses (like the "poor-man's" YCL-220 bass that I play), there is no sudden jump in quality between G# and A because there is no register switch - it is just goes from hard to harder. If you try a single clarion register student bass, you'll find the upper clarion near unplayable without a really good mouthpiece and reed.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-03-19 20:12
"In single register basses.....there is no sudden jump in quality between G# and A because there is no register switch."
Register switch on double register key bass clarinets is between D# and E!
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Author: sultan
Date: 2009-03-19 20:40
I guess... but I saw one somewhere where it switched between G# and A. I don't remember what make it was.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-03-19 20:41
Tks, Larry, I noticed that diff. from what basses I had experienced. The G#/A switch is a saxophone switch , which I recall finding once on an alto cl, which worked OK. I'm not familiar with present-day mfgr. "structures", but the D#/E complications [two bridge linkages] might induce the higher switch-over. PM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-19 22:31
Of course Larry is correct, at least with the major brand bass clarinets. The switch is as he said, at the D key. As a matter of fact, it's the third finger in the RH that makes that switch. ESP
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-20 05:25
>> "grunt" problem on my Prestige low C, but when I tried claribass's intervals (a while ago) I discovered that there still was a problem with the upper note response. <<
That's because your instrument is the new Buffet which has this specific problem. Another instrument might have a different problem/compromise (in fact other models do have different compromises). I've tried the top model from Yamaha but don't remember enough to comment anything specific (why I asked Phillip to check the same excercise). But I might be able to try it again in about a week.
>> We could use Ed Planaker's advice here, on how he teaches his students to play these notes securely, particularly when slurring up from the low register. <<
Since PhillipS never mentioned a problem of slurring up from low register I assume you meant that in response to my post. But actually this is not a problem on many instruments. It is on some Buffets but for example not on most Selmers. On many models those slurs are considerably easier than starting clarion notes.
The problem I was talking about has nothing to do with playing ability. Sure, it's possible to improve and have better control, but it is very obviously a design issue when compared with an instrument with a different compromise (where other things will be harder instead). This is a different problem than starting clarion notes.
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Author: graham
Date: 2009-03-20 12:42
As others have said, join the club!
These are nasty notes to get right. If the part allows it (I have not played this one) then maximum preparation for the note tends to improve matters. If you build the air up behind the reed/tongue a while before releasing the tongue, and then release that precisely but not violently, then this gives you the best chance. The alternative which so often suffices in an ordinary clarinet, to breath out at the same moment as releasing the tongue from the reed seems much more dangerous on a bass.
Then there is a possible "cheat" (though this works best in the lower register). A bass will play the note subliminally under the tongue. That is, if you put the tongue on the reed, not too tight, and exhale, then you hear the note very faintly. The audience does not hear it. But the note has started. The instrument then tends simply to contimnue to play that note when you release the tongue. It is far less dangerous than starting it at full volume.
In certain stacatto lower register passages I have often simply played the passage legato, in the sense that the sound never stopped. All I did was damp the sound to a very low volume with the tongue betweeen notes. The audience hears a strong stacatto passage.
Don't know about mouthpieces except I suspect asymetrical lays don't help.
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