 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: musica
Date: 2009-03-13 12:48
Before I have cork put on my A/Ab keys is it a good idea? I've had two rehearsals
in the past week that I've had water in these keys and the pads have swelled
making it not playable until they reseated themselves. I've tried to swab often so
it doesn't happen but it still does. It's not the pads since I just had them replaced
and they seem to be seating well when I do the suction test.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-13 12:51
I have every pad on my upper joint corked except for the bis key, and I have this on all my horns.
The upside outweighs (for me) the downside.
I would wonder, however, if the wood of your upper joint is a little dry?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-13 12:53
It is a good idea as cork pads won't swell when they get wet.
And also consider having cork pads fitted in the low lying keys, such as the C#/G# key, the side Eb/Bb and F# keys and the Eb/Bb 'sliver' key, and on the lower joint B/F# 'sliver' key too if that tonehole collects a lot of water.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-13 15:02
With cork pads, have the spring tension reduced as they don't need to be strongly sprung to seal (eg. side keys and throat A key).
Provided they're seated properly against the tonehole, they will seal well and remain closed with much less spring tension than clarinets are often set up with.
Heavy spring tension can cause the face of cork pads to crack around the area seating against the tonehole rim, so reduce the spring tension if it is too great.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2009-03-13 15:20
On all my clarinets I replaced the synthetic and bladder pads with cork and kid leather. Much improvement.
richard smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-13 15:21
Cork pads are the future.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-03-13 15:23
I've always had cork pads on all of my soprano clarinets. Moisture still accululates in the tone holes, but the cork never swells and loses its seal. Also, the tone quality is improved with cork vs skin.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-13 15:32
The biggest misconception with cork pads is people think they're meant to reduce water in toneholes.
Water will always collect in toneholes regardless of the type of pads used, though porous pads such as some leather pads that aren't waterproof or punctured skin pads will absorb water into them, whereas cork pads won't do this and will give the impression that they cause more water to collect, but it's still the same amount of water collecting but there's nowhere for it to go.
In any and every case, always have a strategy so you can deal with the inevitable consequenses of water collecting in toneholes to reduce the likelyhood of embarrassment - keep a pullthrough to hand while playing to dry the bore with, shake the offending joint (and keeping a good grip so it doesn't go flying), have a sheet or two of absorbant paper on standby (such as Bounty or whatever it's about to be rebranded as) and when blowing water from toneholes, please do it quietly!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-13 15:39
I believe that cork pads actually contribute slightly to "water-in-tonehole-burble" because they're TOO waterproof. One of the many reasons I like leather pads (even on soprano clarinet top joints) is that the material is slightly permeable and seems to absorb just enough moisture to reduce burble (specifically on the C#/G# where the problem usually manifests itself).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-13 15:44
It's all a matter of the conditions we're all expected to play under - they're usually too cold so condensation is always going to be a problem (as well as tuning).
At best we will still get condensation in the bore and there's very little that can be done unless someone develops a mouthpiece or barrel with a condensation trap!
Or the double-walled metal clarinet plumbed into the central heating system.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-03-13 15:46)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-03-13 15:49
Chris wrote, "Cork pads are the future."
That is definitely not written in stone. For all we know, the future may be Kraus's Omni pads, and similar.
Post Edited (2009-03-13 15:49)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-13 16:20
Sorry Gordon, I can't quite convey the humour in that comment across so well in writing than if I was actually saying it. Think of tasting some new and exotic meal for the first time and being overwhellmed by the unusual but exquisite flavours.
Something that did make me laugh was a local repairer who told me while inspecting my own clarinets (which I cork padded almost throughout) that 'cork pads are an old-fashioned way of doing things'. And there he is poorly seating leather pads on clarinets!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-13 20:53
I agree with most that cork pads are very good in the top joint of the clarinet. I like them in all the pads except the one and one key. BUT, you should be drying them with pad or cigarette paper when any pad gets wet. That way they won't retain water. First blow out the excess water, then swab and then dry the pad until dry, cork or otherwise. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-03-13 22:47
Cork: good idea, but they won't keep water away from the tone hole. SIGH
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-13 22:56
Clarinettists have it easy compared to conservatoire system oboists whose C and Bb toneholes and 8ve vents block with condensation.
Back in 2006 I was playing alto sax outdoors in June, and even then the crook 8ve vent was gushing like a fountain every time it opened when I went above upper register A.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-03-13 23:02
>It's not the pads
if they are swelling, there is a problem with the pads
they should not swell , even when wet. especially if they are new.
if they are swelling up, then there is a crack in the membrane
that being said, cork pads are worth every penny - go for it.
what mrn said - my horn is older than he is - the cork pads last for years and years and years
also, oil the bore - that will reduce the moisture in the tone holes
fwiw, i use the doctor's products 'bore doctor'
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-03-13 23:23
My repairman who mainly does oboes installed cork pads on all the upper joint including the 1 and 1. There is even a cork pad above the first finger lower joint. This took some getting used to, but after having the pads there, I am quite happy with it. The firmness of the cork feels fantastic. I asked him about this, as usually clarinets have skin pads there, and his reasoning was that it is common to use cork on the open keys on the oboe so why not on the clarinet? I think maybe that we clarinetists are accustom to a little "play" on those keys and to feel the firmness of the cork just feels off.... at first. Now when I pick up another clarinet, the first thing I notice is the squishiness of those pads...
FWIW, I have a friend who had all the pads of his BASS clarinet corked! Top joint only, tho.. but still!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-14 00:18
It makes the action feel more switch-like as the keys are either open or closed and no half measures that squishy or poorly seated pads tend to feel like under the fingers. I've championed cork padding on clarinets since 1988 when I repadded the top joints of my Centered Tones with them and never looked back.
I've even cork padded the top part of my soprano sax down to the double C# vent as the leather pads bulged in the area within the impression. If I could get good quality cork large enough, I'd use them in the largest pad cups on clarinets and the top part of the body on alto saxes. Though I do like to use cork pads on sax 8ve keys as they don't stick.
Cork padding the top joint on bass clarinets sounds pretty good - only the LH3 pad cup may be too large for a decent quality cork pad. Though you could always use a standard leather pad with the centre stitched and waxed like some do with bassoon pads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-14 01:28
Hi guys,
Bill Brannen corked the upper joint of my bass and I have always been pleased with the work.
In my first post I mentioned that I did not have the bis key corked...I would imagine that it would work well as long as BOTH the bis key of the upper and lower joints are the same (as described by Dave). So either both corked, or both regular pads, but not a mix...I think that would be asking for regulation issues, as well as tactile inequalities.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-14 10:57
On my CT and full Boehms I've cork padded as much as is possible including all the main action pads and the articulated G# pad, and haven't had any trouble with the long Bb on these.
The best way I've found to set the main action if you have cork pads in all the ring keys is set the LH2 ring key pad to have slightly more pressure than the RH ring key pad when being closed by the RH rings, and set the rings so they're sitting slightly higher than the tonehole chimneys. For the long Bb link, use felt or ultrasuede on the upper part of the linkage as this will be silent and have a small amount of give to it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-03-15 05:41
I think a good quality felt has its place for silencing in linkages, but I have found no use for ultrasuede because the material is actually springy, and springiness in linkages is the last thing I want.
It means that the two ideals of simultaneous closure of two pads, and equal pressure of closure of those two pads, are even more mutually exlusive, than they would otherwise be because of minuts play in pivots, and because of flexking of the metal of keys.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-15 06:11
I think cork pads are also a cultural thing. I know I don't like them, and I don't know anyone locally who wants them. IME they don't have any improvement for water in tone holes. In some areas/countries they are considered pretty much a standard thing and probably this is partly why some people recommend them. If you like them then great and you should consider them.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-15 18:18
Cork pads don't prevent water in tone holes, as far as I can tell. The pads that get water in them seem to go bad more often, though. With cork pads that just doesn't happen--properly installed, they last for decades. That, to me, is the #1 benefit of cork pads.
The main thing is to make sure you have a good technician put them in carefully, because it takes some skill to do it properly.
Also, some technicians will put a beveled edge on cork pads, while others don't. I think the purpose of the beveled edge is to make the pads less noisy. I'm not sure what I think of beveled cork pads, because the only time somebody's done this to my instrument (when I had mine overhauled a few years ago), I had to have some of the pads redone because of very slight leaks. I never had this problem when I had non-beveled pads (of course, I have just been the victim of a sloppy tech.--not sure about that). Seems like the sort of cracking Chris P was describing might be more likely to occur with beveled pads, because there's less material there near where the pad makes contact with the tonehole rim. I'm curious to hear what others' experiences are in this regard.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-03-16 12:34
I don't think bevelling is responsible for the leaks, nor splitting.
AFAIK its purpose is to slightly enhance venting, by reducing the turbulence created by the air passing over sharp edges.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-16 13:45
I only bevel the speaker key pad but leave all the others with square edges after having ground them flat.
I notice Buffet use cork pads with rounded edges and a slightly domed surface.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-16 15:26
I don't think a bevelled cork pad is more likley to split. Actually a square edge seems more likely to split for example if the edge accidently rubs on something that starts the split.
A bevel won't have any affect on the pad sealing as long as the tone hole impression is not affected i.e. the bevel touches the seat.
The cork pads I've seen on Buffet clarinets all had square edges and none had a domed surface.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-16 15:33
My basset horn has the slightly domed and rounded off cork pads as does a Tosca belonging to a bandmember.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-03-16 15:46
While I have many cork pads, I am also a fan of the synthetic pads. They seal very well and are a touch less noisy than cork.
I know some who don't care for them, but I have had good success all around with them.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-16 17:12
The success of pads of any type is not only how well they're installed and set up, but also how well they're maintained throughout their life.
Give a perfectly well padded clarinet (or any instrument) to someone who doesn't give a toss about how to look after it and they'll be having problems soon enough compared to someone who has a tried and tested maintainance routine.
It's up to the owner to honour the time and work spent on making an instrument for their benefit, and not for them to neglect as that's a slap in the face.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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