 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: blackbird
Date: 2009-03-11 17:23
Hi All,
I just got my clarinet back from being overhauled and I seem to be having issues with some notes. The pads on the upper joint were replaced with cork. The first A, B, and C above the staff are very squeaky. I can play them if I roll up to them, but even then there is a warble and then SQUEAK!
To complicate matters a bit, the clarinet was overhauled by a repairman in my hometown hundreds of miles away, so I can't really go back to see him. He and another friend of mine who is a professional player tested the instrument before it was sent to me and they both said that it played beautifully, so I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.
Any ideas or solutions?
Thanks!!
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-03-11 18:21
Contents may shift during shipping?
I'd take it to a good tech near where you are, get a second opinion.
ALL of the upper-joint pads were replaced with cork? Perhaps one of them isn't sealing properly. I think I only have the pads that are closed in a resting state corked.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-03-12 00:21
It's a little hard for me to imagine of an air leak that would interfere with the notes you're talking about and not affect the D, E and F a twelfth lower. A leak should have more effect the lower you are in the instrument's compass. How are those lower notes to play? The ones that are fingered the same but without the register key? How about the rest of the chalumeau going down from D4 (thumb and left hand two fingers)?
Sometimes you can get instability from a key that doesn't open far enough. The only hole that's open for those three high notes (A6-C6) that is closed for D4-F4 is the register vent itself. Check to make sure it's opening a reasonable amount (you'll have to use your own intuition) and, if you can, remove the register key and check to make sure there's no dirt, or even water, in the register tube itself.
Good luck.
Karl
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Author: blackbird
Date: 2009-03-12 01:08
Alex: It's possible that something happened during shipping, but it was packed very well. Unfortunately I can't afford to spend any more money on it, so I'm hoping to find a fix myself.
Karl: I couldn't find an obvious leak, but I don't know what else could be going wrong. The D, E, and F sound fine as do the rest of the notes. It actually feels wrong to play the G, A, B & C. If I play the notes while slurring, they sound but with a bit of a buzz/warble, but I I try to play them individually the C especially won't do anything but warble and then squeak unless I clamp down and blow very hard. The register key looks good and I cleaned out the tube again to no avail. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-03-12 01:29
It seems like an obvious question, but how many different reeds have you tried with the same result?
Karl
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Author: blackbird
Date: 2009-03-12 01:57
Hi Karl,
It's actually a really good question because buzzing sort of feels like a reed problem, but 5-6 reeds, and 2 mouthpieces later and it problem is still there. But it actually feels like it may be improving a bit. Is it possible that there is a settling in period?
Thanks again,
Kimberly
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-12 02:51
Have someone press each pad down while you play those problem notes and see if the problem goes away when one or the other is being pressed down. Start with the side trill keys then go to the A-G# key. One on those is probably not sealing. If all else fails take it to a good player and ask them to try it for you to see if they have the same problem. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-12 06:44
Check how the instrument seals. Do you know how? In case you don't: take each joint seperately, finger the lowest note on that joint, by closing all the holes and pressing all the keys (don't press harder than you do when playing). Then with your other hand, close the other end. Put your mouth to the open end, and then, the best method is IMO to squeeze air out of your mouth using your cheeks. This gives you the best feel. But also try to suck, and see how the joint holds a vaccum, and just blow if you can't manage the squeezing from cheeks. sorry if this is over explaining to you, but I don't know if you already know any of this or not.
Also, one possible problem that for some reason causes the notes you mention problems more than for other notes is: The top ring key has the arm that connects it with the thumb ring. You will see this arm goes under a "bridge" that is in the two top right side trill keys. The problem is that when you press this key, this arm touches and raises a trill key. You can try pressing the the first ring key hard and look if you see if the arm touches a trill key or if one of them is moving.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2009-03-12 18:44
My guess- the side trill key(s) leak. Second guess- the G# and or A keys leak.
richard smith
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-03-12 21:57
To everyone who has suggested looking for leaky keys all over the upper joint:
Why would a leak cause notes in the upper clarion to squeak but have no effect on the same fingerings with the register key closed?
Just wondering what I'm missing.
Karl
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2009-03-12 22:14
There probably is an effect on the lower register as well, but since the lower register tends to play slightly easier, maybe the player can compensate for the leak.
Edit: Hmm, I just realized you were the one who told me that, Karl.
Post Edited (2009-03-12 22:19)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-03-13 02:15
Well, if this is what you mean:
<<Are you having any squeaking issues or response problems at all in the clarion or chalumeau? Sometimes leaks that you can accommodate in the lower registers become unmanageable once you get into the third (altissimo) register.>>
it's true enough, but Kimberly says "The D, E, and F sound fine as do the rest of the notes." I guess the question is whether they really are responding well or Kimberly just isn't noticing the problem in the lower register. The other thing is that altissimo notes tend to be much less stable inherently than the ones in the clarion register. Almost anything that isn't optimal can make those notes hard to play (deagle was talking about altissimo D6, E-flat6 and E6 in the other thread). A6, B6 and C6 are much more stable in general.
Still, you could be right that there *is* a problem in the lower twelfths that Kimberly just isn't detecting. I only wondered if, absent any response problem anywhere else, what could be leaking that would only affect the upper 3 clarion harmonics. :-)
Karl
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-13 05:45
>> I only wondered if, absent any response problem anywhere else, what
>> could be leaking that would only affect the upper 3 clarion harmonics.
Maybe you missed my previous post, which had an example of that exactly.
It might sound strange, but SOME leaks, for example on the top two trill keys, can cause only the top clarion to have a noticable problem. I know because I had this problem exactly as the one I described. If pressing the first ring (or thumb ring) very softly there was no problem but pressing slightly harder (i.e. happens normally when playing) then there was a problem especially on the top clarion B and C, and also A and Bb slightly.
You might think that this causes a problem in the lower register too, and it is just hard to notice, but I did a lot of experiments by purposely creating especially small leaks, on both soprano and bass clarinets, and I found the same result. But the leak has to be very specific size and location for this effect. I assume the OP didn't create a leak on purpose so the first upper stack key linkage arm touching the trill keys is one suggestion.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-03-13 08:24
I can happen that one plays on a poorly regulated instrumet for a long time and they learn to compensate for it. Then, when the instrument is fixed properly, the player has trouble because they are still putting in all that extra work.
This would explain why others can play it easily.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2009-03-13 11:34
Hello,
If your ISP doesn't lie, and you live in/near New York, I would suggest visiting Wojtek Komsta, my repairman. He lives in Jersey City. He's very honest and will look at your instrument while you are there (the best way to have your instrument repaired) and, if there's an easy solution, he won't charge you very much to fix it. If you'd like to pursue this, e-mail me directly for contact info. Good luck.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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