 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-11 15:13
Anyone here on the BB play a German (Oehler)-system bass clarinet? I've started fooling around with one and am having a great time.
Other than the fingering differences compared to Boehm-system (which aren't as huge as they seem at first), the instrument has a much smaller bore than the French instrument, barely larger than a Boehm alto clarinet or basset horn. Anyone familiar with playing oboe will recognize the fingering differences, as they are basically 'oboe fingerings' done on the clarinet.
My initial impression (after just a week of playing time) is that the instrument plays with somewhat more resistance overall, and gets a more 'reedy' and focused sound but with a bit less volume -- however the nature of the tone seems to be more penetrating which compensates for the reduced power output (I write this after just two orchestra rehearsals using the instrument, during which neither the musicians in front of me nor the conductor had the slightest trouble hearing me!).
In our clarinet quartet, the German bass clarinet (as I expected) blended better with the soprano clarinets and wasn't so prone to overwhelm them as the French-system bass (of which mine is a German-made Kohlert, ironically).
I'd be very interested in hearing from anyone with experience playing such a beast, or having heard one played in concert, especially in an orchestral setting.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-11 15:22
Have they got a more compact sound (like a large Eb clarinet) instead of a spread or fat (heavy) sound that Boehm basses can often have (depending on the player)?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-11 15:35
That's a good analogy, Chris. Seems to describe my very limited experience so far.
Of course a big part of the equation is the mouthpiece -- my instrument came with two original-equipment F. Uebel mouthpieces of apparently similar design, other than one is made from wood and the other from a burnt orange-colored hard rubber (I'm not kidding!). I found both mouthpieces to be unplayable at first (way too close at the tip for me), so I've done some pretty extensive refacing along with interior rework (deepening of the baffles and chamber) and now they both play acceptably and feel pretty similar to each other.
I've been using the only reeds I've got that fit, which are from Gebhard Steuer (#4 in his German-cut "Schmal" style); I like these reeds and have been using his French-sized bass clarinet reeds for a while now on my Boehm bass (alternating them with Vandorens, Marcas, etc.).
It's really fun to try new things, especially when they're very different from what you are used to.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-11 15:40
What is it with Germans and orange ebonite? You often see a lot of older German system clarinets with orange ebonite mouthpieces and rollers, and Zinner still make orange ebonite mouthpieces as well as green ebonite. I liked Vandoren's Java and Jumbo Java mouthpieces in blue ebonite, but they stopped using that in the '90s in favour of black ebonite. Howarth use orange ebonite for the top joint tonehole bushings on cocobolo bodied oboes and cors as it matches the colour of the cut wood.
Here's some photos of a Heckel bass clarinet (in maple), although this is a Boehm system but still with the German bore: http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.worrell/gallery/heckelbassclarinet.htm
And you'll find more German/Oehler basses from some of these makers listed here: http://www.cs.ru.nl/~bolke/DuitseKlar/oehlerlistOld.html
Bunged the right link on this time round.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-03-11 19:14)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-11 17:36
Thanks for the info, Chris -- although you repeated the first link address instead of giving us a second link ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
By the way, my Uebel bass (courtesy of our good friend Ben, alias "tictactux") came to me having a range to low-D, with that lowest note emanating not from the bell, but from a mushroom-shaped vent at the bottom of the lower joint. Turns out that closing that vent produces a perfect low-C#, so I've added a single thumb key and linkage to close a pad over the vent. Thus I'm just one half-step short of the full range to low-C which one needs more and more these days. Adding that final note will be a bit more complex job -- I'm not sure yet how (and even if) I want to proceed with it.
Another interesting observation: As with my F. Uebel soprano Bb Oehler-system clarinet, the bass version has an upper joint made of grenadilla and a lower joint made of much lighter-weight (and color) rosewood. It's not noticeable because both are stained such a dark black that other than a faint grain difference noticeable only on close inspection, the upper and lower joints look the same. Between the rosewood (long) lower joint and the small bore, my German-system bass is a very lightweight instrument.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-03-11 17:40
Dave, Steve Bates of the Kennedy Center Opera House Orchestra plays a German system Wurlitzer bass clarinet. I'm sending you his email address off site.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-11 19:23
(corrected the link thingy)
Years ago I worked on a Moennig (Los Angeles) bass that was Boehm system to low Eb but German bore, and that too had the low Eb issue from an open mushroom-shaped vent inserted into the lower joint above the bell tenon that could be closed off by a willing participant (or a lump of Blu-Tack)for a (flat) low D.
The two Uebel basset horns I've seen were grenadilla throughout, though the leakier one of the two (with the porous white leather pads) played much better.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-11 19:38
Funny Chris, I too once overhauled a Moennig-Los Angeles bass clarinet just as you describe, with the mushroom vent. I did everything I could with that thing but in the end it was one of the worst-playing bass clarinets I ever tried. Stuffy, out-of-tune......but gorgeous to look at! The design certainly created some wasted length by not using the bell to produce the lowest note.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-11 22:12
They had an oval bore in the bell U-bend and the keywork would bend just by looking at it.
Made me feel I had telekinetic powers, unfortunately the keywork would only bend out of adjustment using telekinesis and not back again. That had to be done the old fashioned way time and time again.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hansdenijs
Date: 2009-03-23 22:12
Hello David,
I have seen this topic today for the first time. So here my late reaction.
I'm playing the German Bass clarinet, in fact a very nice Fritz Wurlitzer instrument till low C with Oehler system, build in 1969. Fritz is - as you probably know - the father of Herbert and he was in particular famous for the improvements made to the design of the German bass clarinet (Oehler system as well as Reform-Böhm system). You have described the characteristics of the German type very well. Due to the smaller bore (19,43 mm) and the smaller dimensioned mouthpieces the sound is very focussed, but smaller in volume compared with the Böhm bore, with an easy to play middle register and very consistent in sound quality. Specially the low register is very nice and focussed. I have attached a picture illustrating the high level of design and keywork, all hand-forged keys.
The traditional German Bass clarinet (profi level) is made nowadays by Herbert Wurlitzer, Leitner&Kraus, Reidel, Dietz, Huying, Nürnberger. This is no complete list by the way.
As main disadvantage i would mention the very high price and maybe less conveniant in playing modern music where the böhm bass is superior in the high register due to the many different possibilities (see e.g. the tutor from Henry Bok, which is written for the Selmer bass carinet).
This high price of the professional German Bass clarinets hinders the usage in the non-professional field, but also in the professinal orchestras some movements are noticed. For instance the clarinetsection of the Royal Concertgebouworchestra. This section uses Wurlitzer (and Leitner&Kraus) reform-Bóhm, and has used till recent days the Herbert Wurlitzer Bass clarinet. But i have seen this week that now a böhm bass clarinet was played by a new young player! The result in Wagner (die Walküre) was very nice.
I really hope that the German Bass clarinet will not die and will play a modest but unique position in the clarinet world. Finally an upload of the whole bass clarinet and the bassethorn, also from Fritz in Oehler system.
Hans from Holland
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Author: katzer
Date: 2009-03-24 08:09
What is the price of a German Bass Clarinet? are there any pro and non-pro models?
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Author: Lam
Date: 2009-03-25 14:58
Usually, a German Bass clarinet, made by the master workshop like Dietz, Leitner & Kraus, Huyng etc.. cost around Eur12000(student model) to 15000(pro-model). From these makers, they make only pro-quality model, their "student" model bass clarinet is actually pro-quality instrument, only with reduced keywork.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-12-08 16:06
There are 2 makers who make good quality German basses at a good price around EUR6900(student Low Eb) to EUR10100(pro Low C). Martin Foag makes a professional instrument around EUR8000(A443) and it can be heard in the Bayerisches Staatsorchester Munich, and a model tuned to A440 can be made at EUR9100. Another model is the Oscar Adler 500 which is a reduced keywork version of the 510 model which won the Deutschen Musikinstrument Preis(German musical instrument prize) in 2008. The 500 costs less than EUR10100 whether in A443 or A440.
That being said, as an advocate of German basses, I think it is not just price that made them unpopular, but lack of promotion. With mouthpieces adapted for alto clarinet reeds and improved volume projection, on the market, I think German basses will have the chance to compete with any French bass. It might could more than a subtle role.
Josh
Post Edited (2014-01-20 11:40)
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