 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-03-10 03:54
Interesting. For one, have they considered the industry or industries that would use this cane? I don't know how much is harvested in the US for reed making but it could be significant.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-03-10 04:04
In the wild, it's an invasive species that ruins native habitat. Seems like a perfectly reasonable goal, though I don't particularly approve of releasing a wasp to do the dirty work... things like that have a tendency to backfire.
I don't think this is cane that would be used for reeds.
I would guess that the amount of destructive donax in nonnative habitat in the wild dwarfs the amount used for reed cane by several orders of magnitude. Reed cane tends to come from cane farms, does it not?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-03-10 04:07
I looked on wikipedia and a. donax is reed cane.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-03-10 04:19
It's reed cane, yes, but the vast swaths of wild invasive reed cane are not being used for reeds. There's too much of it, and it's located in all sorts of places that are quite far from reed factories. If someone actually wants to make cane out of it, they can plant it quite well near where they want it, seek out good soil, etc.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-03-10 11:28
I doubt that intentionally planting it is a good idea since, like bamboo, it will probably take over the area. I am against, in general, the introduction of any non-native insect species for such a purpose since my impression is that there have been past such inroductions that went wrong. Can' t recall offhand what they were,however, but the African bee may have been one either intentional or not and it has essentially wiped out native bees.
Bob Draznik
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-03-10 11:46
My wife's aunt has done work with invasive species. Biological controls are generally best (beats trying to drown them in chemical herbicides, for instance); of course they have to be managed carefully, but biologists are a lot more knowledgeable and a lot more careful about such programs than in decades past.
(As for Africanized honey bees, they have not wiped out native bees but hybridized with them, and their introduction into the wild in the Americas was accidental.)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-03-10 12:55
rsholmes wrote:
> My wife's aunt has done work with invasive species. Biological
> controls are generally best (beats trying to drown them in
> chemical herbicides, for instance); of course they have to be
> managed carefully, but biologists are a lot more knowledgeable
> and a lot more careful about such programs than in decades
> past.
Accidents happen ... and we're woefully unaware of system interactions. Chaos theory abounds.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-03-10 14:00
Rabbits were introduced in Australia over 200 years ago. For about 70 years they were not a problem. Most were kept in cages and the ones that escaped didn't get out of hand, probably because local predators were able to keep them in check. Habitat destruction and hunting caused the predator population to collapse, and when one farmer released a couple dozen rabbits for hunting purposes, they flourished.
There's really no comparison between that and modern managed biological control programs.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-03-10 14:26
rsholmes wrote:
> There's really no comparison between that and modern managed
> biological control programs.
Yes, there is. Each generation of (farmers, scientists, hunters, etc.) think they're so much smarter than the last generation. It just takes longer now to find out that the results are still flawed - they're just better at 1st order problems.
Hubris.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-10 21:26
According to Wikipedia (A. donax article), they plan on importing this wasp from Mediterranean Europe. I take that to mean that these little guys are already established there in southern Europe (where most of the cane for clarinet reeds comes from). If it hasn't become an ecological disaster over there, maybe it won't become one here, either. (Although it kind of makes you wonder how much trouble these wasps make for the Var cane growers in France).
I guess it's a little like what they're doing here in Texas with the red-imported fire ants (RIFAs). 90 years ago, South American fire ants smuggled their way into the port of Mobile, AL on a cargo ship, and they've been a major nuisance to the southern and southwestern U.S. ever since, because they came over here without the natural predator that keeps them in check in their native habitat. Now they're introducing the predator (the South American ant-decapitating phorid fly) in selected counties, and it seems to be having a positive effect so far. We'll keep our fingers crossed. Apparently there is also a Texas-native fire ant and a native phorid fly that attacks the native ants, but the flies are very particular and won't attack the imported ants like the imported flies do. (I this is the key to this sort of thing's succeeding or not--they have to do careful studies to determine how the new bugs will function in their new environment along with the native species.)
Speaking of Texas, France, and stories of transplanted species (this one has a happy ending, fortunately), one little interesting bit of local trivia (local to me, that is) I learned recently is that virtually all wine grapes grown in Europe today are grown on rootstocks originally imported from Grayson County, Texas (where my orchestra plays--see, there is a clarinet connection here ). Apparently in the late 1800s there was an epidemic of an insect-borne disease that seriously threatened to wipe out European grape production. A local horticulturalist from Denison, TX, T.V. Munson (by some accounts, the leading authority of the time on native American grape varieties), was engaged by the French government to identify and supply them with disease-resistant rootstocks that would be well adapted to grow in French soils. Munson's research was a success and vineyards throughout Europe (and eventually the U.S., too) grafted their traditional varieties onto Texas rootstocks. In honor of his service to French agriculture, the French admitted Munson to the Legion d'honneur (only the second American so honored). Today Denison, Texas and Cognac, France are sister cities.
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2009-03-10 21:51
Introduction of non-native species is not always bad. Our choice of food would be quite limited otherwise. The honeybee is an introduced insect in North America.
The Medjool date was introduced in the United States in 1927, as they were being wiped out in the Old World by the Baioudh disease. These Medjool offshoots were quarantined as a precaution, even though they were thought to be disease-free. We are now the leading producer of Medjool dates.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-03-11 10:48
I don't see that one can make any valid comparison between the introduction of non-native Plant Species and Animal Species. Using the honey bee is especially non-valid since it is currently gone thanks to the African Bee. And who will eradicate this wasp when it decides it likes , say American corn or soybeans, better than a.donax?
Bob Draznik
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-11 15:36
BobD wrote:
> I don't see that one can make any valid comparison between the
> introduction of non-native Plant Species and Animal Species.
Why not? With imported fire ants and A. donax, the problem is essentially the same--you have an already-introduced invasive non-native species with no ecological controls. The proposed solutions to both problems are to introduce the same natural biological controls that keep these species from being invasive in their native habitat. Doesn't mean the solutions are a good idea--it's the same basic problem though.
Invasive plant species can be every bit as troublesome as invasive animal species because they can crowd out native plants, destroy animal habitats, and, as in the case of A. donax, even pose a fire danger.
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Author: Mike Johnson
Date: 2009-03-11 15:56
I say mix it all together. Survival of the fittest.
Mike Johnson
Napa, California
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