 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Gordon (New Zealand)
Date: 2000-10-23 15:49
In the Le Blanc Adhesive thread I was comenting on the poor Le Blanc cork and pad adhesive from the perspective of a repairer of 25 years, and mechanical engineer, who has much contact with new instruments. It is common to find a third of the corks and maybe a couple of pads fall off in the first year or two. Buffet has been known recently to use a similar poor adhesive.
I think most of the problem is that hot melt adhesives applied with a glue gun to a cold (especially metal) surface actually have very poor adhesive properties. I very much doubt that the manufacturers are heating the keys.
Yamaha and Yanigasawa (also Japanese - sax) use a vastly superior adhesive which is unlikely to fail over at least a decade.
Buffet used to use a very high quality pad, but now use spongy felt. I suppose this is so that they can get away with less accuracy in pad/key alignment in an unskilled mass production line!
And I wonder why (French) Selmer in their 'Signature' model uses larger diameter tone holes without using larger diameter pads and key cups. This means that the pads are sealing in some cases VERY close to their edges - this is really bad for reliable pad seating.
Why do the top French makes have so much trouble now with swelling and jamming tenon timber. This is a problem on most new instruments imported here now, and was not a big problem a decade ago. Is the timber no longer aged.... or is it now a lower grade of timber?
The Selmer Prologue has an apallingly designed linkage from the (optional extra) left-hand D#/G# lever to the D#/G# key.
I could go on and on. The standard of manufacture and mechanical design of top instruments is, in my opinion, going dowhill fast. Yamaha is an exception.
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-10-23 16:45
I'm kind of busy at the moment and may comment more later, but Selmer has always been bad about making tone holes large. It gets almost ridiculous on some of the older instruments. I've had to put .5 mm over in some pad cups to make the pad seat properly, however I can only do this using cork pads that I can bevel the backs to make fit the pad cup. Buffet has been using Lucien pads for clarinets delivered to the states and it is a good pad. Are they putting in another brand of pad for use in New Zealand?
J. Butler
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-23 23:18
Some of the old metal clarinets can be funky in that respect of pad size. I've seen this in the student models though, and not the better ones. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-10-24 01:32
I bought a Selmer Series 10 Bb clarinet new once. I was so excited! Then I started to have problems with swelling tenons, then the thing cracked. I've never bought a new horn since, and I'm very prone to using bore oil and having tenon caps fitted to the tenons. I tend to believe that if an old horn hasn't cracked, and you don't give it any cause to crack, that it won't crack. With new horns I don't know what to think, but if I saw the tenons swelling I wouldn't be comfortable. I would definately put a dealer on the spot before buying and insist that if the tenons swell I get a new horn, and for sure I get a new horn if it cracks. One year warranty should be plenty.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-24 04:30
Generally, I think it would be very hard to argue against these comments. here in the States, we have accepted the status quo by creating a higher class of instrument which is "customized" by the Brannens', Jacobi's, Clark's, Yan's, Chadash's, Fobes', etc. This "custom" work consists, in many cases, of better pads installed with good adhesives, new corks, key alignment and regulation & adjustment, and anything else that needs "getting".
I wasn't playing better quality clarinets 40-50 years ago, so I can't comment on the status quo then ... but 'customization" is certainly getting to be the status quo today. mw
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Author: Gordon (New Zealand)
Date: 2000-10-24 06:21
I hear of individuals going to instrument making factories to try and select the 'best' instrument from perhaps a dozen or so. Surely this eventually leaves a heap of 'duds'. What does the manufacturer do with these?
My cynical answer is that these instrumetns are sold to New Zealand, as far away as possible, so that the backlash is minimal.
If this is so then perhaps this internet may cause them to think again about quality control and follow the Japanese model of high consistency.
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Author: Robin
Date: 2000-10-24 07:33
Yes, Gordon. I, too have noticed this tenon-swelling phenomenon. It would be a pity if the conspiracy theory of dud clarinets being sent to the Southern Hemisphere were correct. I also wouldn't be surprised.
But maybe the tenon swelling (I had to get mine 'trimmed' and I've seen many clarinets here with the same problem) is more to do with the climatic conditions down here, and in shipping. After all, we are on a similar latitude and you get our whether conditionsin NZ!
Robin
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-10-25 05:05
I think we get a fair share of the duds here in Texas too! As for the hot glue for adheisive, I use this a lot, but only the high temp sticks because of the hot summers here ( hit 112 F. this year). Non of my pads have ever fallen off but I did have a couple that reset themselves after being locked up in a car all day where the temps were extremely high for hours. I might add one of these was done with French shellac. I think the main cause of loose pads is surface preparation. I try to clean the pad cups with acetone very thoroughly. So far, so good.
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Author: Gordon (New Zealand)
Date: 2000-10-25 12:35
The shellac based pad glue expands when heated so the pad can be 'sat' on the puddle and then helped into the key cup as the glue cools and shrinks. This process excludes air,
I consider that it is very difficult to exclude a patch of air behind a pad if glue gun glue is used because the gl;ue does not swell. Part of the difficulty is because we try to avoid using too much glue because the air under the pad creates pneumatic pressure and forces the glue out around the pad as the pad is pressed into the key cup. This mess is almost impossible to clean up.
A buble of air behind the pad, especially if it is off-centre, results in a pad which may continue sinking into the pad cup during use, resulting in leaks.
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