 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-02-20 16:44
Just a general warning.
In my shop, I have seen four cracks in as many days, in both new and older clarinets. In each case the crack has started in the tenon. In each case the corresponding barrel, bell or lower joint ring was loose.
Please, don't put your clarinet together if your rings are loose, you are just inviting a crack and an expensive repair.
It's that time of year again when indoor humidity is at its lowest.
Please keep your clarinets humidified to the best of your ability. We have discussed many ways of doing this on this forum. If your rings are loose, you haven't done enough.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: Clip
Date: 2009-02-20 22:40
You're scaring me. My lower barrel ring fell off yesterday.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-02-21 02:19
Since Clip brought up a ring's having fallen off, it might be worth mentioning, too (it came up at a student's lesson last week), that those rings (at least the ones on Buffets and Selmers) only go on one way. My student had put it back on with the beveled end out and it was a chore to get it off again. Once off, I put it back the right way and sent her off after her lesson to look for a Dampit or some orange peels.
Karl
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Author: clarinetdude108
Date: 2009-02-21 03:17
This has me worried. The lower joint tenon ring on my bass came off last week, and my tech used epoxy to reattach it. If my bass cracks, I will probably die shortly after.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-02-21 12:56
>The lower joint tenon ring on my bass came off last week, and my tech used epoxy to reattach it.>
That comment brings up the related question of what (if anything) we should do if we buy an old clarinet with the rings already glued on by someone else. The wood is in excellent condition and I would never have noticed anything unusual about the rings, except for the fact that I can see the telltale shine of glue peeking out in a few places at the edges of the metal.
I bought this clarinet (the 1951-52 Boosey & Hawkes "Special" I asked about on a different thread) at a local auction and don't know what glue someone used or how loose the bands may have been when they were glued. In Virginia, keeping the clarinet hydrated in the future will not be difficult. The glue doesn't appear to be a gap-filling adhesive. The shiny spots are flat and thin, without obvious lumping. I'm tempted to try giving the bands a sharp twist to see if the glue is some simple old type that's dried out enough to give way easily, but I'm leery of causing damage if I do some overly-enthusiastic Mama Gorilla maneuver -- and the glue holds.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2009-02-21 18:55
I removed the rings from my Eb barrel so that I could use Bb reeds without trimming them, which is worth the risk of a crack to me...
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-02-22 09:52
Lelia,
I wouldn't concern myself with seeing glue under the socket rings provided it forms an even coating and has maximum contact with the inside of the ring. This is not uncommon to see on brand new clarinets either - most manufacturers will apply glue to the sockeys before fitting the rings.
Have a look at a Leblanc Opus that has loose socket rings - chances are you'll find superglue has been used, though Leblanc are by no means the only makers doing this.
Provided it equalises the pressure under the ring, there is no harm done, and if there's glue under the rings but they fit well, then I wouldn't remove the glue that's already there as it's been applied purposely.
But if you see glue on the sockets that has formed several ridged high spots and a lot of low areas that don't make contact with the ring, then that's a cause for concern and you will probably need to shim the socket ring back in place, or shrink the ring by cutting a small section out and silver soldering it back together (and then replating it if you need to) if the shrinkage is that drastic.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-02-22 09:56
There is a very thorough thread somewhere here on the relative merits of glue and other methods of securing the rings.
Whatever the method, if a ring is secure right around the timber, a crack does not start from this location.
Shellac is a well-tried traditional approach.
Epoxy ... hardly a problem.
Paper, cloth, etc: much the same providing the gap is firmly filled.
All these still enable the ring to be removed should this be needed.
If the clarinet is moved again to a more humid geographic location, ideally the filler should be removed to allow the timber to expand again. Some would argue that making the rings tighter in such a way actually constricts the bore and theoretically messes up the way the clarinet plays. But perhaps this may make the clarinet play better!
Of course some people are adamant that every loose-ring condition can and should be cured by humidifying &/or a thorough treatment of appropriate bore oil.
Whatever takes your fancy. As long as the rings are tight, there is little danger of socket splits.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-02-22 16:00
Hefty garbage bag (lawn & leaf thickness) works really well as a shim from what I have heard.
They take a really long time to break down.
One of the very few things that gets me angry at a student is when they don't bother to refill their
Humistat humidifier.
Loose rings can be easily prevented!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-02-23 11:42
In 40 years of playing and repairing, I don't think I have ever seen a dehumidifier (other than swabs etc) used in a clarinet case where I am.
Occasionally I see mouldy or dehydrated orange peels in sax cases.
Post Edited (2009-02-23 11:44)
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Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2009-02-26 03:02
Interesting topic. My instrument has two loose rings, the hygrometer in the case reads 40-45%, and a local repairman didn't seem too worried about them. His thinking is that when spring comes around, it won't be a problem. With the wood in good shape in February and a humidifier in use, how concerned should I be?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-02-26 12:33
Some people will swear that orange peels never rot. I'm willing to believe they don't rot in some homes and in some climates, but I've seen cases and even clarinets damaged by forgotten orange peels. In climates where the summer gets seriously humid, as in Virginia where I live, it's important to take those orange peels out of the case once they're not needed -- and make sure no clarinet is ever stored for months or years with orange peels forgotten in the case. I've seen such smelly, messy results in flea market clarinets and saxophones that I'm leery of anything organic that's aromatic. I think it's safer to humidify with one of those pro case humidifiers, or with a Dampit with plain water (in the parts compartment, not in the clarinet).
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-02-26 13:15
<< With the wood in good shape in February and a humidifier in use, how concerned should I be? >>
If the rings are just a fraction loose, then probably not a problem.
However if they are loose enough to fall off, you run significant risk of cracking the timber beneath when you assemble the clarinet. The timber there is very weak, you have a lot of leverage, and the rings need to provide support for the timber.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2009-02-26 15:55
The middle tenon ring of a bass clarinet is really really important and sometimes you don't notice that it is loose given all the attached hardware and screws that go into the horn body. On my Buffet the clamp was completely closed and the ring was loose. I removed the ring, filed a bigger gap and now check to make sure the clamping screw is tight a couple of times a year.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2009-02-26 16:27
A big "yeah" to Bil28099. I have an older Selmer bass, and the top ring on the bottom joint is tightened with a setscrew, and not only surrounds the socket, but holds a post for the left-hand lever keys. Only after the left-hand lever keys went "sproinggg" on me and fell on the floor did I notice the ring was loose, and the socket, sadly, had cracked. I check that screw obsessively now.
The older thread that Gordon alludes to is MUST reading as far as I'm concerned--a whole bunch of exprienced, smart people (including repair people) discussing the issue thoroughly. I think the thread's from last fall sometime.
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