 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2009-02-22 21:46
Hello---any suggestions on where/how to grip the various clarinet components so as not to bend rods/do damage during assembly/disassembly of the clarinet? Thanks.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-02-22 23:00
Ok, the left hand holds the top joint and the right hand holds the lower joint - the same hands that operate the main action keys will hold the relative joints when assembling/disassembling the clarinet.
With the right hand palm downwards, place the thumb over the two large open pad cups and close them down and wrap your fingers around the joint. This will hold the keys closed so you won't be bending anything on the lower joint.
With the left hand held palm upwards, wrap your fingers round the joint so your fingertips close the rings down. This will raise the linkage between the joints and prevent the ring keys getting bent.
Then twist both hands in opposing directions while pushing together or pulling apart both joints.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-02-22 23:01)
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-02-23 00:15
Chris, of course, is correct.
If you'd like to see photos of the process, take a look at a section of the Muncy Winds Web site, at:
http://homepage.mac.com/philipmuncy/PhotoAlbum28.html
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-02-23 18:25
Perhaps an equally important point to help prevent damage is the application of a top quality cork grease before each assembly (little and often).
And that excludes the stuff sold as "cork grease"!! by 95% of music stores.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-02-23 19:48
Although I have the highest respect for Doc and his products I doubt that ....all things considered.....that the typical lipstick tube commercial product does that much harm. I say this partly because most (?) serious clarinet players have their tenon corks replaced before a commercial cork grease would damage them significantly. (and the non-serious one probably don't grease as often as they should).
wjk I'm curious why you are asking this question as I was under the impression you'd been playing for quite a while. And I'm assuming your question is for Bflat sops only.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-02-23 23:13
But why replace corks needlessly?? Using my homemade grease for many years before discovering the Doc's product I could easily get 10 or more years out of my corks, one of my A clarinets still has good fitting joints after 25 years.
for the record just today I have replaced about 8 tenon corks on three customers' clarinets and in each case the cork grease in the cases was the usual "commercial" type, most of which looks, feels and smells identical regardless of the brand name on the tube.
All the corks were dark, hardened and had lost any semblance of resilience.
I see this repeated every week, every month, every year, so I know the damage to cork that these petroleum based "gooes" do.
Arguably one might see this as being good for trade !! but with good quality cork becoming increasingly hard to find then doing a good job when replacing tenon cork is actually becoming harder all the time.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-02-24 04:22
It really doesn't matter how you assemble the clarinet as long as you don't uin something. I do completely different than the photos on Muncy's website, and more like what Chris P wrote.
Muncy's website says: "Grease all tenon corks thoroughly before putting the instrument together"
The question is, what is "thoroughly". This definitely implies "a lot". If you have good fitting tenon cork and you good cork grease, only very little is necessay, and you definitely don't have to do this every time before assembling. I put cork grease only a few times a month or sometimes less. The cork greases I like are the natural from Doctor and the synthetic from Alisyn.
I agree with Norman. I've seen corks getting ruined from bad cork grease. The worst type is the regular vaseline. It can ruin the cork but also the glue (of course this depends on the glue also). I've seen corks that are still in decent shape simply fall off without a trace of glue behind them. I can't know for sure it wasn't just a poor glue or poorly glued cork, but in every case I've seen this the person was using vaseline or one of the regular cheap cork greases.
You can also connect the bell and barrel to their joints first, and then you can hold the parts easier when assembling the main joints. Usually I hold lower joint with right hand, closing F/C and E/B keys with fingers, and pressing F#/C# with palm, and hold upper joint with left hand, pressing rings keys with fingers. Usually my thumbs are parallel with the body and don't really press anything (except the body) and that's enough. If I need mroe force, I wrap my thumbs around and just notice that I don't bend something with them.
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Author: Earl
Date: 2009-02-24 13:57
Here's another good site with photos of what chris is talking about.
http://www.zacharymusic.com/Zachary_Music/ClcarePics.htm
I just got a "new" old '72 E13 that spent 30+ years unused. The joints are really tight mostly from hardened corks but the center tenon has some wood to wood contact and I bent a key taking it apart. Ouch. That brought me to this post. I needed to review how to do it right, again.
Earl
Post Edited (2009-02-25 04:33)
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Author: wjk
Date: 2009-02-24 14:05
Bob--Yes---I've been playing clarinet for quite a while but I've learned alot from this fascinating discussion.....
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-02-24 14:21
Earl,
Tenons should really be designed to be a good wobble-free fit without the tenon cork fitted, so wood-to-wood contact is important to prevent the tenon from rocking which will cause problems with the long Bb linkage on clarinets (and at least triply important on oboes due to the various linkages), but the problem is when tolerances are tight, humidity changes then causes the wood to swell and the tenon to bind in the socket.
To cure that when it happens (and chances are it will happen on new clarinets within the playing-in period), a very SMALL amount of wood is shaved off the tenon rings (only removing a small amount of dust from the high spots) until it becomes a good and wobble-free fit in the socket.
The danger with tight tenons is a lot of repairers sand the tenons down way too much so the tenon is a lose fit in the socket and it's only the cork keeping the joint together and allowing it to rock, and they can also leave the ends of the tenons rounded off with excessive sanding which doesn't look good.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Earl
Date: 2009-02-25 04:25
Thanks Chris, I used some 400 grit and took off just enough to make it come apart with out geting a hernia and there is still a solid contact in the last 1-2 mm. What' are your thoughts on cork grease?
Earl
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-02-25 04:56
Earl, in those last couple of mms, is there contact between the side of the tenon and side of the socket, so it is hard to insert/remove, you can feel the friction, and possibly it makes some sort of squeak...? If this is the case, it isn't good. Cork grease is not for this, it is only to overcome the friction of the tenon cork, not the wood.
One method I was taught is that the parts that have too much friction will then be shinier on the tenon after you remove it, so you know where to remove wood. Usually only a tiny bit is necessary to remove. Some do this with a lathe but I don't see a reason to remove more wood than necessary, and removing from all way around might do just that.
In your last question to Chris "What' are your thoughts on cork grease?" then I'm not him, but if you meant for the wood contact, then above is an answer. If you mean generally what cork grease is good, then as I mentioned before IME the best ones are the natural type from Dcotor (Doctor Slick) and the synthetic cork grease from Alisyn. You only need a tiny bit. Another two types that some people like are the synthetic type from Doctor (Doctor Syntek) and the Ultimax cork grease. I don't like these two so much, the former for being too greasy, and the latter for being too sticky, but like I said, some people like them.
I hope this helps.
Post Edited (2009-02-26 05:09)
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-02-26 02:52
Chris, have you specifed in your will who'll inherit that tub when you're gone? Sounds pretty big. Everyone'll want it, you know! (Sorry, working with all sorts of people in a tax office makes us find humour in some pretty strange things!)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-02-26 10:01
You think that's big? You should see the mother!
They also supply a large tin of the stuff (about the size of a tin of peaches or small tin of paint) and that lasts for decades!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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