 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-02-19 21:39
This is something that has confused me for some time now. Why is it that on average Eb clarinets seem to cost more than their Bb conterparts, even though they look only aobout half the size (requiring half the material). Are they harder to build? Do they require better quality materials? Thanks for any insight.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-02-19 21:42
My guess is that they are not produced in such high quantities as Bb's, so the cost per unit goes up.
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Author: DixieSax
Date: 2009-02-19 22:05
Bluesparkle has half the answer.. the other half is that Eefers are harder to produce because the tolerences get tighter in a smaller instrument - the tonehole diameters and separation must be more precise as the measurements decrease. A micrometer off will represent a larger deviation from tune the shorter the air column.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-02-19 22:51
At least for the big makers, their cost of making drills, reamers, keys, etc. have been fully amortized by now, and the tolerances needed are fully within the capabilities of modern equipment.
I think the higher price is due to the cost of setting the equipment up for small runs (which must be recovered over fewer units) and the time cost of money for storing slow-selling instruments.
Ken Shaw
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2009-02-20 00:39
disclaimer: I have been an in-tune Eb soprano player for 32 years.
The TIC answer is that the high prices help to assure that only those who are not just casually attracted to the cuteness of the horn can get them readily. You can't be an excellent Bb player and expect the skill to translate directly.
The real answer is much closer to the other replies.
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2009-02-20 00:51
Another real reason is that the longest piece of wood required for an eefer is longer than any piece on a Bb. Wood basses have gotten very expensive because they use two giant chunks of wood.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-02-20 02:55
All new clarinets, of every size, are WAY overpriced, in my opinion. It's just a matter of degree. Maybe eefers are a bit more way overpriced than Bb clarinets, which are also way overpriced, along with bass clarinets, which are WAY WAY overpriced, etc. Fight it! Buy used.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-02-20 09:33
Why do they charge so much for an Eb?? Because they can- people that want an Eb usually need it for jobs they have or hope to have, and they won't let a little thing like price get in the way.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-02-20 15:39
Jobs was certainly not my motivation for buying a fairly expensive eefer. If I ever get a dime for playing Eb it will be because I was careless about where I left my hat lying. I bought a pro quality horn simply because it was too frustrating trying to play the intermediate I learned on. Life is too short....
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2009-02-20 21:08
David Spiegelthal said, " All new clarinets, of every size, are WAY overpriced."
On what basis? I don't believe any musical instrument manufacturer is extremely profitable in comparison with other businesses. They do have to make a profit or they will cease to exist. Can we show that the owners of these companies are living luxury life styles feeding on the gross profits they are accumulating selling at these absurdly high prices? I don't think so.
I agree that you can save a lot of money buying used, and sometimes you can get wonderful instruments this way. If you are lucky enough to do that, congratulations, but that doesn't make the cost of new instruments overpriced. After all, the costs to the company for the manufacturing have to be covered by the initial sale and cannot be recovered on the secondary market.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-02-21 03:22
"I bought a pro quality horn simply because it was too frustrating trying to play the intermediate I learned on. Life is too short...."
Well, maybe "jobs" is not the reason for everyone, but what I mean is, the people that want an Eb are not casual. They really want one.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-02-21 05:24
The difference in the cost of the amterials is probably very small and not a big factor in the price. The keys is only just slightly smaller, but making them is probably as much or more expensive. The wood cost for a huge company for one clarinet is really not a huge part of the cost of the instrument (I've seen blocks the size for a clarinet joint sold for not much at all). The highest cost is probably (like in just about every company) the paychecks for the workers. Add to this the additional designing and tooling they need for the Eb, it's not surprising they cost at least as much as a Bb (I'd be a little surprised if they cost less).
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2009-02-21 18:58
> Another real reason is that the longest piece of wood required for an eefer is longer than any piece on a Bb.
This is exactly what I was going to say. They seem smaller, but the piece of wood required is actually larger than for a Bb. That and the supply and demand argument pretty much sums it right up, I'd say.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-02-21 23:24
To respond to Bubalooy about why I think ALL new clarinets are overpriced: The design of what we think of as the modern Standard Boehm clarinet has not changed one iota in about 100 years -- that's right, a century. I have plenty of experience renovating and playing on clarinets dating from as far back as 1910 and I can tell you that in every significant respect they are IDENTICAL to brand new clarinets. So, the tooling for these instruments was amortized at least 50 years ago, other than periodic renewal to replace worn-out equipment. There is no new design work involved. There are no research costs. The only real costs are those of materials, labor, and MARKETING. I surmise that the material costs of a Bb clarinet, for example, would be on the order of $100 US or less --- there's just not much there. The labor costs, as Nitai wrote, are probably significant. But I'm sure that automation has (or could) reduce labor costs considerably. So what makes a new R-13 cost $3K? If the manufacturers are not making exorbitant profits (and I have no doubt they aren't), then probably their biggest cost, outside of labor, is in persuading YOU that you NEED a brand-new instrument in order to be a successful musician.
We are starting to discover that Far Eastern manufacturers are capable of making clarinets for about a tenth of the cost of the traditional European manufacturers, and it's just a matter of time before they do so with a level of quality equal to that of the French and Japanese makers. So Buffet et al had better stop resting on their laurels and wake up, or they will price themselves out of what little market there is left (if they haven't already done so).
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-02-22 23:45
DS- Only 100 years?
To give you more fule for your point- I have a Buffet that is over 110 years old that has no mechanical difference from a modern clarinet except for the single rod screw for the 2 LH pinky keys. Also, I have done some research on a museum piece- 140+ years old from Buffet. Mechanism was exactly the same as today's (other than the single screw for the LH pinly keys. Keys and wood wre different material, though.
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