 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2009-02-17 07:04
Can anyone please share with me your observations on the vintage Pan American (by Conn) hard rubber clarinets?
There were apparently several versions produced in different years but mine I guess is model 74N according to 'The Conn Loyalist site'.
I don't know anything about it's playing characteristics as I'm in the process of overhauling the clarinet but I wouldn't expect much from a student line horn.
However I would really appreciate your input on the design of this clarinet. It's a sturdy built clarinet with what appears to be good hardware. This clarinet even has a separate stopper post for the G# pinky key. It has what I consider usual presence of Conn set screws for the pivot screws although my Conn HR Albert doesn't have them.
It has brushed HR appearance which looks very much like wood. If I didn't know it's HR and if I knew a little less about clarinets I would easily confuse it with wood. Especially after... I washed it.
And here is the funny (sad) part. I already read on this board (in fact there is some scattered info on these here and there) that one should be very careful when cleaning these horns as the finish will easily come off.
Honestly I didn't take those comments seriously and decided to wash it under the tap with slightly warm water and dish washing detergent. And the finish came off!
But it wasn't what I would think it would be. When I read the warning about being careful with the finish I got an impression that what could come off would be thin black film like on those artificial leather old camera cases.
No, it wasn't any film and it turned out that the clarinet was finished with a thin black dye layer. I don't think it originally was water solvable dye but it has probably deteriorated over the years and with the help of detergent came of so easily, not completely since clarinet still has dark grey tint but uniformly.
Before washing the clarinet looked black and after washing it became pale grey-brownish very much like some sort of natural wood after (improper?) aging.
Here is the question. What do you think or know about this finish?
What would you use to make it black again? I wouldn't like to invent anything or experiment as I'm not much concerned with it's color but if the original Conn dye formula is known to you please let me know what it was.
Second question is what metal is the keywork made of? When I got the clarinet it apparently was sitting in the case for several decades. The keys had grey oxidation on them.
They polished up nicely and when polished the metal is shiny white. It resembles polished silver.
Is this the notorious pot metal or some other alloy?
In my understanding nickel-copper alloys aka German silver would have some yellowish tint. Not on this one. I corrected a few bent keys and the metal has a little more sprigy feel to it than German silver which is more pliable I guess.
Last question I have is do you know if all Conn hard rubber early clarinets were produced with silmilar dye finish that comes off so easily with simple washing?
I'm planning to clean my Conn HR Albert and now I hesitate to wash it.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-02-17 16:09
Hi Noverbuf - I have a Conn [ logo 12] of approx. the vintage of your Pan Am, which I briefly described in the "Valentine names" thread below, which might interest you. We have discussed the "propellor wood" Pan Ams [laminated wood multi colored, but poor playing cls in early threads, which are available via an archives Search [above. A bit of info, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2009-02-20 06:29
Thanks Don for your input but my questions was about a little different thing.
May I shorten my question so that someone who is familiar with this could answer without reading my essay above?
Was anyone here owning old PanAm (maybe some Conns) hard rubber clarinets being successfull with cleaning that black finish that comes off so easiy when washed under the tap?
I can't imagine anything less harmful than water.
If you washed it off as I did could you restore that finish with some dye that apparently was close or at least looked like it was something similar to what Conn used to finish those clarinets?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-02-20 14:37
Hi Nb - I sure dont know re Pan Am cl bodies, but "coloration" has been a topic of earlier mp discussions, so perhaps a Search of Mouthpied Color[ation?] will give some info. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2009-02-21 07:33
We've just been discussing hard rubber finishes over here: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=294984&t=294984
I don't know if that helps or not. I also have an old Pan Am. It's an Albert from the 20s and says Zyloid on the bell. I think I used a little soap and water on a cloth to clean it but it didn't turn color. My big problem with it was getting pads to seat tight. The tone holes or cups are pretty out of wack and may have other leaks somewhere. I put it aside and will get back to it someday when I feel ambitious.
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