 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Bill
Date: 2000-10-17 22:53
I have a burning desire to get a metal clarinet. I was hoping this urge would go away, but it's persisted for a couple of weeks. If I do get one, I plan to use my current mouthpiece.
From what I've read, I expect the sound to be similar to my current clarinet which happens to be plastic, except that the tuning may not be as good, and it may be louder. Is this basically correct? Also, does a metal clarinet have a different feel in the hands?
I found a music store that sells refurbished metal clarinets, and has a 7 day approval period, so the risk should be minimal.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-18 00:27
Bill, some metal clarinets are fairly good. Most of them are student model instruments, and don't play as well. If you can find one that plays well, any you like, then I'd say go for it. If this is a reputable music store, you shouldn't have much problem there. Maybe you could try it out in the store. The music store I shop at will even recommend that you do this if you seem unsure about the purchase. Unfortunately, not all music stores are like this. If you do try out a metal clarinet, keep a couple things in mind. First, it will have a different feel. If you are the kind of person who doesn't like the difference in feel between two wood sopranos, and can't adjust well, this can be a problem. Metal clarinets do have a considerably different feel to them. There isn't a huge weight difference between them, as one might suspect with metal. They take a lot less adjustment as far as feel goes than a bass clarinet or Eb sopranino. The second is, yes, there will likely be a few notes out of tune. The most obvious being the throat tones. If you have a decent metal clarinet, it isn't too hard to compensate. A refurbished metal clarinet is nice, but take care to look at the pads. Usually leather pads are better on metal clarinets. I won't bother going into that subject unless somebody wants to. Perhaps you could tell me what model it is, and how much they want for it. Some places want a horrible chunk of money for an "overhauled" metal clarinet. If the repair job is poor, the pads will probably leak, and you'll probably be able to tell when you play it. Another note, even if you have a good metal clarinet, and can play it well, some directors will frown upon using it in a band. Most of them have pretty good reason. I know a retired band director who fought to keep a bunch of beat up metal Bundys going. Eventually they found a one way trip to the dumpster. I myself am a big fan of good metal clarinets, but you still have to watch out for junkers. If you find one you like - go for it. :-) Nate Zeien
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Willie
Date: 2000-10-18 04:29
Nate pretty well hit the nail on the head here. With some tinkering with pad/key heigths, some of the tuning problems can be corrected enough to be acceptible on most. The altissimo though is a different matter as you have to lip most of them up a bit but this comes automatic with practice ( and a tuner ). There some brands that are hopelessly out of tune as most of the clunkers were just mass produced to fill a large market demand for a cheapo student horn. There are also some very good ones out there but these are getting hard to find like the Silver Kings. They are fun to play and even played my Elkhart at rehearsal a couple weeks ago and the Proffessor didn't know it till I stood up to get some music being passed out. He hates these things like other older band directors mainly because the reputation they got. Student horns+student MPc+student= questional sounds. Try different MPcs on it. Mine plays great with an old 2RV, but lousy with others.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-10-18 13:32
A good metal clarinet sounds like ... a clarinet! I have three in playing condition, an American Standard (H. N. White student brand) E-flat soprano, an H. Bettoney Silva-Bet B-flat soprano and a Selmer Barbier Bb soprano. The Bettoney is the best of the lot.
I do think the metal ones I've played are louder, with a more piercing tone, not because they're made of metal but because they were made specifically for use in bands, where they had to project against a lot of loud brasses. Metal clarinets have never been accepted in orchestras.
I've had a hard time adjusting to the feel of metal clarinets, because IMHO they don't balance in the hands quite as well as the fatter-bodied wood and plastic ones. The weight of the metal clarinet is much greater on the side with nearly all of the keys, and greater on the right side (in playing position). I've noticed that the metal ones feel as though they're going to roll around to my right in my hands. They don't actually roll, because I've got a reasonably secure grip, but I notice the "pulling". It distracts me. Maybe that's something I'd just get used to if I played a metal clarinet more often.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fred
Date: 2000-10-19 02:38
I really enjoy my Silver King - but I must confess that there is more going on here than musical purity. This is a toy . . . a wonderful toy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with big boys (or girls) wanting toys as long as the budget can withstand it. (If you can afford a metal clarinet, you can afford to support sneezy.org!!!) Be aware that there are only a handful of pretty good models available . . . the rest are purely beginner horns and not even up to the standard of today's beginner horns at that. Plan on at least a repad job. I didn't spring for special pads on mine, but the double skin bladder pads are working fine.
Good metal clarinets have class, style, nostalgia, and a BIG sound. People look - they draw interest, and they certainly get the job done. The Silver King was and is a very fine horn, but it is not the equivalent of my R-13 in terms of intonation and pure clarinet sound. But it's FUN. They may not be appreciated in a clarinet section or in an orchestra because they don't "blend in", but I can pick and choose when to play the Silver King and when to play the R-13.
By the way . . . the "barrel" on my Silver King has a slightly larger inside diameter than the barrel on my Buffet, causing all my mouthpieces to be loose. I could have one recorked to fit and dedicate it to the Silver King. But instead, I slip a band of paper toweling around the mouthpiece cork and it snugs up just fine. Sophisticated? Well, no. But after all, isn't the whole idea of playing a metal clarinet a bit irreverant anyway?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-10-19 15:36
I can't remember the thread about the stuck barrels any more. I think someone else asked the question about the stuck barrel, although I do have a clarinet with what seems like a tuning barrel that won't budge. No, I never did manage to unstick it. Maybe I'm mistaken in thinking it's a tuning barrel. I'm chicken to try to force it with a pipe wrench. If I break it, there are no replacements.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fred
Date: 2000-10-19 17:40
I've got the same issue of "maybe a tuning barrel" with my Silver King. It looks like it ought to turn, and definitely isn't corked or removable otherwise, but so far it hasn't loosened up. I have been informed that tuning barrels on metal clarinets were notorious for freezing up, but whether this means a broken mechanism or just unlubricated, I'm not sure.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2000-10-22 21:45
This is the story I have heard about metal clarinets... :
These were invented for military purposes... Especially for colonial country armies such as U.K. and France....
Why they were invented...? Because the standard wood clarinets would crack resulting of the very harsh climates in colonies..... Anyway.... the metal clarinet was pretty usefull because it had a powerfull sound and could "compete" with powerfull brass instruments.
The tone is unfortunatly pretty crap compared to a good wood clarinet.. but it was perfectly allright for the colonial army.....
Thus... at one point these clarinets were brought to the south of U.S and the confederate's armies used them into the army bands. At the begining of the 20th century... lot's of these clarinets were fore sale... for very cheap.... and black musicians could afford them and many of them bought these clarinets and used them for New Orleans jazz....
Woody Allen when he went to Buffet Crampon to buy a clarinet that would suit him saw the metal clarinet that was exposed at the entrance of the factory.... and said to Carlos (that's the technician at buffet.. really cool guy) "I wanna try this one"... he tried it.. and "that's perfect for me. I can get that old New Orleans sound I like"... But.. unfortunatly for him this clarinet was not for sale....
He finally ended up with a custum made 13 key wooden clarinet that had similar characteristics of a metal clarinet... thanx to Carlos, Pierre and René Hagmann of Geneva.... Anyway... he's totally satisfied with it...
I believe though that it's impossible to play a classical clarinet repertoire piece with a metal clarinet. Because these pieces were not written for these instruments...... If you're a new Olreans jazz freak.... these instruments must be pretty amazing... especially for the volume part.. (which is often a problem with the clarinet in jazz music)
Anyway.... if I had the choice.. I would go for wood.... if you have nothing else... good luck.
And if you have the money to afford a toy... enjoy..... and polish it well so you can eventually hang it on the wall in your living room.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-10-22 23:00
Strongly suggest you read Rendall's "The Clarinet" and other books on the history and acoustics of clarinets. Material has no effect on the sound of a clarinet.
1) Metal clarinets are not louder than wood. Loudness is a function of design parameters such as bore diameter, tone hole diameter, and mouthpiece selection.
2) The metal clarinets tone is like any other clarinet. Poorly designed and made ones sounded like crap. Well designed and manufactured instruments sounded fine.
3) The majority of metal clarinets happened to have been made by the ton as cheaply as possible for the student/marching band market. Thus the metal clarinet acquired a bad reputation due to these low grade instruments. There were some intermediate and pro grade horns made but unfortunately consumer resistance, much of it due to the reputation of the low grade student metal horns, killed them off. The pro ones were reputed to have been very fine instruments.
4) The pro grade and intermediate grade metal clarinets were designed for the orchestral player not the military or student or jazz player. In my little collection, I have a nice old metal Noblet with a fine tone quality and classical sound.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-23 02:07
I agree with the information that Dee has provided, except for a couple points. In my opinion, both plastic and metal lack that "woody" sound that you get with clarinet. As far as metal and wood go, I think there are a few minor differences in material, and major differences in the craftsmanship and design of most metal clarinets. A metal clarinet needs to be good to start out with, and in good repair to sound nice. Not all of them are meant to be hung on a livingroom wall. -- Nate Zeien
PS - Note that metal, too, can have a rich dark sound, rather than bright, as one might suspect...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (New Zealand)
Date: 2000-10-23 16:58
In my experience as a long standing repairer metal clarinets almost always leak - considerably!
This is because they are actually very flimsy and the tubing bends easily. The tone holes are soldered on and any jarring or flexing of the body breaks apart the soldering, but only part way around, so the tone holes do not normally fall off.
A contributing factor is the dissimilar metals (lead and brass) at the soldered junction, when in the moist environment inside the clarinet, encourage electrolytic action which erodes the junction allowing it to fail more readily.
Any leaks damage the response of an instrument.
It is difficult and unreliable to resolder the parted tone holes because the the heat required will very likely compromise the soldering of neighbouring tone holes.
Perhaps fiilling with 'super glue' is the best option to deal with the leaks, which can normally be detected as a visible line almost at the bottom inside the tone hole, usually only part way round the tone hole.
Very cheap (by Western standards) metal clarinets, as far as I know, are made and sold in Turkey. The quality is sufficiently low that they are not worth bringing up to reliable playing standard.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bill
Date: 2000-10-28 21:01
I just received a Regent Soloist, purchased via eBay. The seller said that it had been recently repadded, adjusted, and polished. This is obviously correct, by looking at the clarinet.
I like the way this clarinet looks, sounds, and feels.
Thanks to all for your comments.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
