 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-02-08 15:37
Hi Everyone,
I have an Ubel Eb clarinet which has served me quite well professionally but I wanted to ask about the best way to tune the E6 (thumb, speaker 0xx/000 Eb key). It is quite a flat note, about 15 cents flat. I have gotten by with vent fingerings such as the G# key but at speed this is not really practical.
I have tuned the instrument with the aid of blue tack and was wondering if I opened up the hole just below the third finger would that bring the E up?
Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-02-08 16:00
Check to see it the key pad just below the E is not opening high enough, that could be part of the problem but that would also be effecting the C-G 12th as well. You could have the tone hole just below the high E undercut to help raise the pitch but that too will effect the C-G. I'd be interested in hearing if someone else knows a solution to this problem. I have the same problem on my Selmer Bb Signature and just always play the high E with the side G# opened. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-02-08 19:15
Sometimes I put the RH sliver key down for that note to bring up the pitch (with or without the RH Eb key).
(I don't know if that's a practical solution for you or if you've already thought of that, but I figured there's no harm in mentioning it.)
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-02-08 20:16
I too use the right hand sliver key on the lower half between the 5th and 6th tone hole. Just make sure to relax your embochure when you do this or you might climb too high, depending on your horn. This does help though.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-02-08 21:25
Thank you for your replies. I am aware of those vent fingerings and have used them often in slower music and especially when tuning with the piccolo.
What I really want to know is if I open up the hole, with a file say, directly below the third finger will it make it sharper?
Ed, thanks for the advice, I did check to see if it was to low but it seems okay. The 12ths below are 'in tune', it's just the E.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-02-08 21:40
I've misplaced it, but somewhere I have a fingering chart of recommended fingerings for altissimo on Eb clarinet, that differ quite a bit from the standards. One time, sight-reading Candide, I was pretty easily able to play nicely in tune with the piccolo at high E and above by simply playing a half-step higher than written. I'd look into different fingerings before taking to tone holes with a file.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-02-08 22:05
Thanks Alex,
Candide Overture was my first professional date with the CBSO. Richard Stolztman was soloing in the concert so got to have a nice chat with him over tea as I was only required for a few pieces.
With respect I don't need a fingering chart, I'm passed that. I have coped for several years but recently in an audition situation it was suggested that I should perhaps look into sorting it out. I have worked on the tuning of reproduction classical clarinets so I know what I'm doing.
Before I do anything I wanted to know if this would work or not.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-02-08 23:09
In the altissimo register the most critical notes for intonation on an Eb-clarinet are always Eb6, E6, F6 and F#6 since they are the thirds in their harmonic series and tend to be flat. D6 is often on the high side so what I often do in an ascending scale over the break is to play D6 without using the R-pinky at all and Eb, E, F and F#6 adding the F/C-key instead of the Ab/Eb-key, depending on the situation. Usually this brings the critical notes up on most instruments. To my experience it’s only the Buffet RC concept that has come close to even this problem out.
Alphie
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-02-09 00:46
I think Ed's answer is on the money - undercutting probably will bring the E up but will also make the C-G twelfth below it sharp. If a firm embouchure and maybe a small adjustment of the instrument angle and tongue arch don't bring it up enough and, especially if the notes around it are not as flat as the E (if they are, of course, it's a whole different problem), you're probably going to have to do the best you can with fingering kludges and hope that maybe the piccolo player can help a little in unisons.
Karl
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Author: marshall
Date: 2009-02-09 06:55
Try this fingering:
register key, thumb, Ab key, C#/G# key, xxx|ooo, Ab/Eb key.
It's generally in tune and speaks really well. That's the one I use whenever I have long, extended E's that need to be sustained at all dynamic levels.
It's also really good on Bb for leaps from the octave below (or other wide leaps) where you just need the E to 'pop' out without the typical 'pop' sound (think Night on Bald Mountain). On Bb, it almost has the feel of the long fingerings for F and F#. I think the stability comes from having the index finger down. The Ab and C#/G# keys make it speak and put it in tune.
For the record, I drop the register key for everything between clarion G and altissimo Eb, then will usually drop it for altissimo F and F#, but I only know tuning tendencies on Buffet Ebs and don't know if that will help on any other brand of instrument.
Post Edited (2009-02-09 06:58)
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-02-09 13:40
Life's too short. Buy a different horn. I have had many E flats and none of them had that problem. Sure they each their own quirks, but that would be a deal breaker for me. That note is just too prominent. The only solution I can think of would be to play it as an overblown Bb, or of course, get another clarinet.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-02-09 17:13
Peter, today I was rehearsing Schönberg's "Pelleas and Mellisande." First page in the Eb part moves around much in the register we are talking about just above C6. Thinking about this thread I did exactly what I explained in my earlier post; D6 without pinky and adding the F/C key onwards up to F#6. G6 I played xoo/xxo coming from F#. These notes are not a problem on my instrument normally, a Buffet RC Prestige, so I had to lip down. I was just curious as to what effect it would have. I would say that this technique works if you get used to it. If the E6 is the only problematic note I would recommend you to do nothing, except correcting with the sliver key or the throat Ab key being it exposed. Undercutting the hole below to make a difference in this register would definitely ruin C4 and G5.
Alphie
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Author: Veldeb
Date: 2009-02-10 13:56
Ok - I'm fessing up here...after years of bloody lips trying to lip the altissimo up...and having spent years transposing by sight into C on the Bb - i committed heresy and continue to commit it weekly on my Eb.
I take the note up a half step or even a step and don't vent with the Eb key or any other key and lip down.
Less blood, better pitch, and I don't have to destroy my horn to do it with undercutting etc.
The conductor doesnt care what fingering you're using, as long as its in pitch.
There.. I feel better now. I've confessed. :-)
Blake Velde
www.dcdd.org
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Author: eefer ★2017
Date: 2009-02-12 00:56
For what it is worth, I got tired of that and some other issues and sent mine out and had it fixed. Haven't had a problem since.
Nancy Buckman
AACC Symphony Orchestra
Opera AACC
Early Music Society of Northern MD
(and a lot of other ensembles, too)
nebuckman@gmail.com
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-02-12 22:27
My teacher played under Tosanini and did several of the big Eb places under the maestro. He had a Penzel- Mueller that had a lovely sound. I've used these fingerings on several different brands of Eefer, including a Selmer, a Noblet, a Buffet R13 and my present Prestige. These were his two suggestions, which have also been noted above.
He liked an overblown G# xxx + G# key when you have to make a JUMP to an E (as in Candide or in El Salon Mexico) and if you had to play a sustained note with the piccolo. You can add the RH G#/ Eb key to adjust.
He liked adding the sliver key to the standard E fingering for most other passages as that fingering transitioned a bit better in scales and runs.
Maybe because I started on Eb not Bb I hsave not had a problem playing the high notes on Eb and in tune. All my Bb friends seem to have a "pinch and blow" mentailty on Eefer but I don't think this is the best approach to get a pretty sound. If you're having to pinch and blow maybe you need to think about a different mouthpiece. Those of you who transpose a note higher and use a loose embouchure might like it but I can hwere my teacher SCREAMING as POOR TECHNIQUE. Of course bottom line is THE NOTE.
Interesting series of posts.
Eefer guy
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-02-22 16:40
Hi Everyone,
Started to practice Eb today for an audition and wanted to say thanks for the posts. They were helpful, especially Alphie, I tried what you suggested and found that it worked quite well on my instrument. So i'll be re-learning that with regard to the E and F in alt and no worring about taking a file to the tone hole.
Peter Cigleris
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