 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ashley
Date: 2000-10-22 20:29
Hello.. I just stumbled upon this page and found it of some intrest. I'm a high school senior, planning on majoring in instrumental music education with a possible minor in clarinet performance at the University of Iowa. I primarily play bass clarinet, as I switched to that 3 years ago from Bb. I'm trying to get back into playing Bb again, saving up for one of my own. (I only have a part time job though so it's not happening very fast). All-State auditions were yesterday, very unfortunately I wasn't accepted. My high school director is going to try to contact my auditor tomorrow to try to find out why I wasn't accepted. It's pretty confusing as I played the Ab major scale 3 octaves, and chromatic to the C above high C (on a bass clarinet), and played all my other audition materials extremely well. This judge also auditioned the trombones, tubas, and euphoniums, so he was probably a low brass specialist and wasn't as impressed with my range as a clarinet player would be. Too bad that nothing will happen of it, the best I think they could do is give me alternate status. Which would be ok. Something at least, right?
Well, I hope I learn something here, and hopefully someday maybe I'll have something to contribute. 'bye now.
-Ashley-
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-10-23 00:23
Ashley--one point of correction. You have something to cmtribute today. We all learn from each other. You are a long way in front of a lot of us. so jump on in and join the discussion.
One question? is the fingering on the bass the same as on the Bb clarinet?
Thanks
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2000-10-23 01:19
Question: Why was one person responsible for this decision? It seems more appropriate that there would be a judging panel of five for an important audition such as this. Olympic style judging throwing out the high and low would be advantages to avoid favoritism. This is the way most state audtion panels I've adjudicated have been done. Perhaps Iowa needs to investigate a better process if not, at least, to avoid some law suits over the outcome. It's been known to happen in other states.
J. Butler
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Author: Ashley
Date: 2000-10-23 02:18
Its nice to find a message board where people actually reply to your messages.. unlike a lot I've gotten really frusterated with. Yep, for the most part all the fingerings are the same, with the exception of everything above the C above the staff, where you have to keep your left hand first finger down, not covering the little bitty hole on the key. Depending on the instrument, the altissimo fingerings are different.. like when you overblow a high E, it should be the A above that, but it's Bb on my instrument because my horn has 2 openings for the register key. That's definately going to confuse me when I am either able to finally play up there on clarinet, or get a different bass that only has one register key opening when i go to college.
As for the all-state judging- I have no idea. It's completely messed up. Theres I think 6 instrumental centers, each has one judge, and theres one other person in the room who times the audition. You go in and play a prepared solo less than 8 lines, I played the allegro part on the first page of Sonata in A Minor/Marcello, 3 etudes or parts of them from the book, Advanced Studies for Alto and Bass Clarinets/J. Weissenborn, this year it was #s 7, 9, and 23. Then you pick a card that has 2 major scales on it, i got A abd Bb this year (no problem), and then you choose a scale - Ab for me this year, because I can play it 3 octaves. Finally the chromatic and youre done. This year my chromatic ranged from low Eb to the C above high C. Each judge judges more than one instrument too.. Trombone/Tuba/Euphonium/Bass Clarinet had the same judge, Bb Clar/Eb Clar had the same judge... I think flute and oboe were together, trumpet and bass trombone, I dont remember what all else. The low brass w/ the bass clarinets was what was completely out of whack though. The judges decision isn't settling with me this year at all. I'm not happy, mainly because I played better than probably everybody else, and there shouldnt have been any reason for me to not have been in. My director is going to contact the Iowa High School Music Association tomorrow, and see what she can find out. Although the best I think they could do is give me alternate, if that. It's really tough on me this year, I worked really hard and I definately deserved it. Plus, I'm a senior, I dont get another chance. I know colleges dont look at whether or not you were in all state, I just really wanted to make it. A girl that made it in place of me takes from my director (she's made it for 3 years now), last night on the way home my director said that she thought if only one of us would make it, it would have been me. Go figure. Oh well, we'll see what happens.
Another thing was the recalls with the trumpets. They recalled 10 of them, one of my friends was one of them. They met with all the recalled trumpets before they each played, and told them they had to play the D scale 2 octaves for recalls. 2 of them knew how to do it. My friend got the D out, messed up the 2nd octave of the scale but played to first octave ok, and got 2nd alternate. Another girl from my town but not my school, played the scale, also messed up the top octave, and couldnt get back on track to finish the first octave, and got 1st alternate. Rumor has it that one of the trumpet players that got in didnt even try to play it 2 octaves, just played it 1 and still got in. That's just wrong.
But I really hope something comes of arguing that decision tomorrow.. If only I didnt have to go to school and listen to everybody say they're sorry I didnt make it :(
If youre interested, the Iowa High School Music Association is at http://www.ihsma.org, and th Iowa Bandmasters Association (This site has more info) is at http://www.bandmasters.org.
bye for now, sorry that was so long,
-Ashley-
ps - the camp I went to is at http://www.uiowa.edu/~bands/asmc/index.html - where I'll be going to college
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-23 02:59
Well Ashley, even if you do deserve it, there isn't a whole lot you can do about it. Your director can complain, although from what I have heard about Iowa, you probably won't get too far. Being from Iowa myself, I know a little bit about what goes on, and how the process works. In the past, my director has argued for the same type of cause, but it got nowhere. I don't mean to be negative, but that's the way things work. Judges may not always be fair, or have standard criteria, it all depends what judge you get. Time of the day, mood of the judge... These aren't supposed to be deciding factors, but they often influence a decision. I tried out for allstate a couple of times, but I was busy with other things and never put enough time and effort into it. Even though I never made it into allstate, and was never serious enough about it, I still learned a great deal. You may think that it was a waste of time, I know I did at first, but it turned out to be a valuable learning experience. Throughout the process, you have become a better player. Also, you have a better knowledge of music, which is handy if you become a music major. Music theory becomes an easy thing if you know all 12 major scales like the back of your hand. Unless things have changed here in Iowa, there is still solo and ensemble contest coming up next spring. My suggestion would be to start preparing for this, and have fun with it. I may be a good way of getting yourself back into playing soprano Bb. Also, as a bass clarinetist myself, the most important thing that I have found in competitions and auditions is a BIG sound. I'm guessing you already know that, but from my experience, that can often be the deciding factor in situations such as these. All in all, I wish you good luck. Allstate is over, go on with the next thing and enjoy playing the clarinet. It is so much more fun that way. :-) -- Nate Zeien
PS - On a more humurous note, you should have seen how annoyed my former high school band director was when I auditioned on bass clarinet my senior year. I played a 3 octave C, 2 octave F, 2 octave G, and 2 octave Bb scales. He knew that I could play all 12 scales, and the G, F, and Bb 3 octaves, so he was a little disappointed. I also use only a fraction of the two or three minutes we had in which to play scales. I knew how many scales the other bass clarinetists could play, and beat that by a couple octaves. My reason for rushing through it was so that I could get back to playing pep band tunes, as auditions were held during "unimportant" music. Well, I suppose I should shut my trap now... :-)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-10-23 03:38
Glad you found our great BBoard, Ashley. With Bob, John and Nate's comments, I have little to add except to say that we discuss many things that are not entirely related to clarinets. I and many others greatly enjoy these contacts, quite world-wide, and exchange info to the benefit of all. Again, welcome. Don
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-10-23 05:59
Hi, Ashley -
I'd like to echo the other welcomes and welcome you to the neighborhood. Your contribution is very informative. Older, and I mean ancient, folks like me remember a time, before computers, when such experiences as yours were unavailable beyond the immediate locale. Your willingness to discuss the situation here will be invaluable to who knows how many others preparing for such events. I'm sorry your recent one ended on such a sour note :
I can only hope and wish, along with others, that college will be pleasanter for you. I can't go figure. Some things just don't add up right and never will. Had an experience eons ago similar to your recent one. You'll eventually win out... I know it.
ron b.
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-10-23 12:25
Don't be discouraged. I seem to recall that Michael Jordan didn't make his high school basketball team.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-23 23:07
Not to change the subject, but I believe that Scotty Pippen started out as the ball boy in high school... -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Ashley
Date: 2000-10-24 00:47
I just thought I'd say that I'm doing a lot better today. It's still really difficult, I think I'm starting to learn that the system isn't perfect, rather it's far from it. The best people dont necessarily get in. All-State auditions were just plain corrupt this year, with the situations with the trumpets, and with the bass clarinets being judged by the low brass judge. My director is going to call one of the "important guys" in the music association, and basically just express her displeasure with what happened. I asked if she could try to get me to audition for an actual clarinet player that would know more what they were talking about, she said she would ask but if they let me re-audition, they would have to let all the bass clarinets at my center audition again (even though I think i have a legitimate reason for thinking I was cheated out of making all-state).
Showing up at school for jazz band this morning was difficult, I was the second one there, one of my best friends was there first. She walked up to me as soon as i got there and gave me a hug, saying Ash, i'm sorry... But from talking to a lot of my friends around the state, they know that I'm good and how well I played, and it they said it's basically BS that I didnt get in. They've all been telling their directors and people at their schools how much crap it was that I didnt get in.
A positive thing came out of today at least. My director decided I (and our trumpet player) can go to the all-state festival with the other band and chorus people that made it. We'll just go, stay in the hotel with them, and just have fun for the 3 days we're down there. She said that all-state is a really fun experience, and we'll have fun even if we arent there to play. Which I hope is true.
So today is better, I have bad moments, I'm still really disappointed and discouraged. A couple of my friends have been telling me to stop hoping that they'll give me another audition, or alternate or something, that it's just making it harder on me. Which I suppose it is... but I just dont want to give up the hope that something might happen, and I might still get to be accepted, although I dont know how. I must get back to my jazz band music now, if I prove to my director I can play my part (which I can't at this time), she'll start teaching me another instrument that isn't a clarinet or a saxophone. Bye for now..
-Ashley-
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-10-24 02:44
Ash some times we are very thankful for things we did not receive. All prayers are answered--sometimes the answer is NO or not YET. The Lord works in differant ways. You will get yours--just keep working at it and keep having fun.
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Author: Cathy
Date: 2000-10-24 04:05
Hi Ashley! First of all let me say that you've come across one of the greatest clarinet websites ever. I'm currently a college freshman majoring in instrumental music ed. And while district and all-state can be fun, they're just a festival...nothing permanent. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be disapointed by not making it. If I were in your situation I'd probably be mad too. but what I found out when I came to school was that once you're out of high school nobody really cares if you made all-state or not. If you've got the drive and determination to succeed you should have no problem in a college music program. Good luck in whatever you do! -Cathy
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-24 08:47
Cathy brings up a very good point. It must be remembered that allstate is just a big honor band. Because it is big, it is harder to get into, but there are still plenty of excellent experiences out there. Honor bands are fun, but they come and they pass. I would concentrate on your college auditions now. Solo and ensemble competition is another thing that comes and passes. After time, one forgets about these things. They are less of a big deal than they are made out to be in high school. They are still excellent experiences, this should not be forgotten. On the other hand, you shouldn't worry too much about allstate or solo and ensemble competition, as in the long run, they aren't going to decide your college audition. I don't know about other states, but in Iowa there are quotas assigned for each rating. The thing that really matters, is if you enjoy what you are doing. If that is there, skill will develop over time. Oddly enough, I have enjoyed playing with a small town polka band more so than with one of the big fancy honor bands at times. Granted, they may not always look for this in allstate music auditions, but one of the most important thing in music is to put your heart into it. A good example of this is klezmer clarinet. If you don't put feeling and soul into it, it will go nowhere. Speaking of going nowhere, I think I'm starting to babble on a bit. You must think of personal satisfaction and enjoyment, rather than the auditioning or competition aspects, as these are the memories that will last a lifetime. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2000-10-24 14:27
Whether you were treated fairly or not, please don't get your expectations too high regarding getting into the All State Band at this point. In order to give you what you believe to be your just rewards, they would have to tell some poor kid who was already accepted that he/she is no longer going to All State, which would be an even greater disappointment to that person, his/her parents, teachers and friends. Try to be consoled that you may help make future auditions fairer for others. And, as suggested, concentrate on your future performances and studies.
BTW, welcome to the bulletin board.
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