 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Emily's Dad
Date: 2009-01-31 03:01
I often see the term "professional setup" when referring to a clarinet. My understanding is that this entails cork pads on the upper joint. Does it mean anything else? Also, what is your experience with the cork pads-does it just "feel" better or are there improvements in the sound, etc. Give me you thoughts!
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-01-31 05:37
Cork pads last longer which is why I use them on the upper joint. I think my Bb R13's cork pad's are about 6 years old with little visible signs of wear. I've replaced the bladder pads that remain at least once on that instrument in that time frame. And I play that instrument most days. On an instrument which you'll keep for years, like an R13, cork makes sense. I don't think I'd bother with cork pads on student model instruments, with the possible exception of the upper joint C#/G# key, which tends to get wet and have more frequent pad failures.
Also note that most instruments come with a cork or synthetic register key pad. E-11's for example come with a synthetic register key pad.
'Professional setup' means different things depending on which salesman or repair technician you ask. I'm not touching that one... I'll let the pro repair techs on the board answer that part of your query.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: kdolan01
Date: 2009-01-31 12:17
ive tried many different pads, the goretex, fish skin, blah blah, the best pads for me are the cork, i feel there is less chance for leakage, and for me it gives me a sort of "crispy" end to my notes that i really enjoy
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-01-31 12:50
I agree with kdolan01. It is the crispness that one achieves with a pad that seals completely and quickly that allows the best sound. In other posts of the past I have seen some that contend slightly leaky pads even out response. I could not disagree more. Your clarinet will respond and sound best when an ideal seal is achieved.
That said, the material of the pads can affect the sound, and crispness moving from note to note. For example, the mushiness of the Valentino pads may give a wonderful seal but the damping properties seem to make the sound less vivid and the note to note movement less distinct particularly with the side key notes.
I have had equal success with cork and the Lucien Deluxe pads of Yamaha. The downfall of the Yamaha is that they really only last a year of hard playing. So the bottom line is that cork is still the best material for me.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-01-31 14:56
The only thing I can add to the use of cork pads, and I love them, is that some players say there are noisy, I don't notice that. The quality of the cork pad is very important. The tech needs to use high quality that does not have tiny pores holes in them so they have to be somewhat particular when they choose them. Also, the only pad in the upper joint not recommended using cork is the 1/1 fingering so that the material for that pad and the first one in the lower joint are the same material so they "seal" the same way. Other than that I don't think professional set up means anything else other than maybe a quality mouthpiece, ligature and reed. Maybe a quality barrel as well. That all depends on your daughters level of playing of course. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
PS. Not all professionals use cork pads so that really doesn't make it a "professional setup"
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-02-01 15:44)
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Author: Emily's Dad
Date: 2009-01-31 22:30
We have "tinkered" with all the other factors (mouthpiece, reed, ligature and barrel). We will taking the clarinet in for a check up soon, and I was considering the cork pads. I do have one related question. Why only cork on the upper joint? I have never seen them on the lower, but would wonder why not?
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-02-01 00:39
the lower joint pads are too large, very noisy if you put cork pads on the lower joint. i've seen a few instruments with gortex pads on the lower joints and a few with leather on the lowest 4. i use cork on top, bladder on the bottom FWIW.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-02-01 11:34
I once saw a very high end oboe that had cork on all the pads from top to bottom.
The noise of cork on big pads may be a problem, but it is also hard to get real quality cork at that size without defects.
My personal favorites (for now, at least) are synthetic pads. Long lasting, consistant quality, good sealing, quiet, and no "singing pads" or crunchy dry skins.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-02-01 12:38
A professional setup (in the clarinet sense, as opposed to a mouthpiece/reed setup) is probably just a clarinet setup done by a professional. Professional is a problematic term though because of the simple fact that there are professionals in many fields who don't necessarily do a good job.
A good setup is what's important, and would include checking the instrument, finding anything that isn't working the best, and correcting that so the clarinet can play the best. This can include correcting spring tensions, venting of keys, leaks, adjustments, improving linkages, etc. etc.
I definitely wouldn't say a professional setup includes cork pads. For example locally no one is ever interested in them and I don't like them so much either (except for register keys where they are used often). Pretty much all pads have advantages and disadvantages.
>> My personal favorites (for now, at least) are synthetic pads. <<
What synthetic pads? I've tried three types of synthetic pads, more if considering different specifications in the same type, and definitely they are not all the same!
Post Edited (2009-02-01 12:41)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-02-01 13:03
"I definitely wouldn't say a professional setup includes cork pads."
I agree.
"What synthetic pads?"
I wondered the same. They are certainly not all equal.
"Lucien Deluxe pads of Yamaha. The downfall of the Yamaha is that they really only last a year of hard playing. So the bottom line is that cork is still the best material for me."
It is possible that there are different grades of pad, all named "Lucien Delux". I regularly use high quality bladder pads made by the manufacturer of "Lucien Delux", i.e. Music Center of Italy. Some of my customers play pretty hard. I don't think I have ever had to replace one in a year. 5 - 8 years would be more common, considerably longer for lighter use.
Perhaps these Yamaha instruments had an extra sharp or abrasive edge on the tone holes, which the technician did not attend to. The pads on Yamaha student plastic clarinets (padded in Japan) traditionally last many years (with student use) if the edges are not abraded by the player while cleaning.
It is entirely possible that players who like their cork pads like them in part because the technician has done perfecting work on the tone hole edges before installing these pads, and a higher standard of perfection of alignments, pivots and linkages, all of which make a noticeable difference to a player. The player may have noticed the same difference if the same attention were given in conjunction with firm, high quality bladder pads.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-02-01 13:34
I have some Valentino green backs on a couple clarinets, but I mostly use a pad of my own design that is made basically of natural rubber. It works beautifully, but only if the tone hole edge is perfect.
I would like to try the synthetics from Krauss sometime, also.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2009-02-01 20:46
Hi Emily's Dad:
Lots of good answers for YOU, but where's Emily?
She should be on this valuable BBoard if she's the young Clarinet player with the questions!
Let her ask the them, and then let her get the answers herself. If she is to become a good Clarinet player, you must let her find the answers for herself.
I appreciate your Fatherly help, but now let her join the discussion, and the BBoard, and ask the questions herself...even if she's only 10!
I'm a Father of 3, so I know where you're coming from...
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2009-02-02 01:56
Emily's Dad wrote:
>>>"I do have one related question. Why only cork on the upper joint? I have never seen them on the lower, but would wonder why not?"<<<
My "Artist Overhaul" includes cork pads on both joints.
In comparison to the leather pads cork pads are noisy, but they are just slightly noisier than the bladder pads.
Couple of reasons why you don't see them on the Lower-Joint:
1. Very hard to find premium quality cork sheet for the large key cups.
2. Large size cork pads are expensive.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-02-02 08:11
Music Center, world's "largest" pad maker, has listed cork pads up to 17 mm diameter for a long time. In my experience the quality has been impeccable.
I suspect they are "hard to find" because technicians and dealers don't stock them, because there is so little market, because players don't like them in the large keys.
Also, the larger a cork pad is, the more difficult to get it to seal really well with low finger pressure.
In my most recent catalogue from Music Center, 17 mm cork pads cost 5.26 times as much as 9 mm cork pads.
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Author: ned
Date: 2009-02-02 08:46
JJM says: ''Hi Emily's Dad: Lots of good answers for YOU, but where's Emily?''
Maybe ''Emily's '' is the first name, and ''Dad'' is the surname of this correspondent!
I wouldn't be surprised actually...............I spoke to a bloke the other day by the name of Darius Family.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2009-02-02 16:00
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
"Also, the larger a cork pad is, the more difficult to get it to seal really well with low finger pressure".
That's BS! Clarinets done entirely with cork pads seals like a bottle with the slightest touch. Finally it's not about cork pads but the skill and technique of an installer. The only drawback with the largest cork pads on a clarinet is that they are a bit noisy.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2009-02-02 21:33)
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Author: Emily's Dad
Date: 2009-02-03 23:31
In response to JJM's question, Emily can access the Board anytime she wants-she just doesn't want to! She is 13 and really enjoys playing, but right now isn't interested in most of the other things discussed here. I am sure things will change over time-so for right now, this is Dad's contribution!
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