 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2009-01-29 14:31
In the Eccles Sonata for Bass Clarinet you have to play C6 and the B and A below that.
My daughter does fine when starting on A going up to C but cant even get the sound out when she has to hit C6 cold.
Should I try alternate fingerings?
I know her embochure is screwed up a little. She put too much bottom lip on the reed.....
its frustrating and nerve racking because she has competition this weekend, and can play the whole solo except thos certain passages.
Another passage is from C5 up to C6.....tough..
any ideas? Ive told her to play those high notes more like the embouchure of a regular Bb clarinet and that helped a little.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-01-29 16:05
First of all, make sure that the throat Bb pad is closing firmly when you depress the register key for clarion notes.
Then follow my motto -- "air, not chops!" Usually, mechanical issues being eliminated, difficulty with the above-the-staff notes is from air moving too slowly and not deeply enough supported. Have your daughter slur up to the notes in question, then stop the air with her tongue while still maintaining pressure, then try to restart only by releasing the tongue.
Stronger reeds might also help.
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2009-01-29 16:12
Tom,
I've only been playing bass clarinet a year, but did major in clarinet in college back in the dark ages. It's been my experience that when playing the altissimo on a soprano clarinet one has to have a developed and somewhat firm embouchure with tons of focused breath support. I find the bass clarinet to be just the opposite. I routinely (in practice session) play scales all the way up to "super C" (the one that lives six spaces above the staff), but I can only get suitable response by playing with a VERY relaxed embouchure. I also think that proper voicing is involved in playing bass clarinet altissimo, but that's a whole other thread, but something you might find via the search function on the BBoard.
Best of luck to your daughter in her weekend competition.
Lynn McLarty
Austin, TX
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-29 17:51
""super C" (the one that lives six spaces above the staff)"
Just for clarification purposes, are we going to define that note--as we do for soprano clarinet--as C7 or as the actual sounding pitch C6 (transposition not withstanding)??
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2009-01-29 18:07
Im kicking myself to be honest.
There are tons of other level 5 solos I could have picked and NONE of them go up to the high b and c.
But its too late....I thought she could nail those notes.
She is using the Fobes mouthpiece and a Legere 2.5 reed...the legere 3 reed just seems way too hard.
TK
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-01-29 18:49
Legeres aren't always well suited to every mouthpiece. You're running up against a deadline and it may be too late to find cane reeds the right strength before the weekend, but it's something I'd at least try, even if you have to wait until after the competition, just to see if those notes improve.
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2009-01-29 18:55
Well, Ive got a new box of LaVoz Medium Hards.....I just used one with a student, had to shave a little and it sounded better than what she had...so yeah, Im going to have her try the LaVoz Medium Hard and maybe shave a bit if needed.
Thanks
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2009-01-29 21:47
Okay, daughter said the LaVoz reeds are better (I did much better on the high notes)
So we are going with the LaVoz and extra practice.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2009-01-29 21:54
FWIW, I'm speaking as someone who is not nearly as skilled as most who post, and play on a 60's Normandy single register bass bought very used and worked on by myself.
But..
1. Good mouthpiece if you can (Grabner LB for me)
2. Reed to match mouthpiece (Grand Concert or Gonzalez 3.0 for me, tweeked. I also get better performance if I don't play the same reed 2 days in a row. A good reed (selected from the box) makes a big difference for me) Also, check for reed alignment (making sure the reed aligns with the opening at the tip and is centered on the bottom of the flat part) in the mouthpiece. For me this was extremely critical in that range with a soft ligature, and I've found some 'unballanced' reeds that could be made to play very well in that range by slightly (fractions of a mm) moving the tip left or right out of alignment
3. Ligature - I had been using a Rovner Light, but just for fun, tried a stock metal ligature that came in a Yamaha 220, and the upper clarion became muuuch easier to jump to.
4. Angle of mouthpiece in the mouth to have the jaw lower on the reed (away from tip) helped me a lot. Since my BCl has the more perpendicular neck bend, I bring the bell waaaay back toward the rear of the chair - but doing this unfortunately puts weight on the fingers to hold the instrument, making neck strap adjustment to pick up the weight, tricky.
5. Pads to seal on upper joint holes. Especially under the fingers of the left hand, A & G#, register keys. If they are held closed by a linkage from another key, I do a quick test by pressing the normally open ones closed directly (to what I think would be a good seal) and then press the other key or linkage and see if the linkage also keeps the key as closed as I think necessary - if not, I adjust. Often the register/Bb switching mechanism is not adjusted to hold one key closed enough while the other register key opens. There also seems to be problems in sealing under the LH 3rd and 4th finger - sometimes I shim it with a thin piece or 2 of tape. But if you've had it looked at, this is probably a non-issue, but take a screw driver and an inch of adhesive tape along just in case. (also check all rod screws which if loose could cause the sealing to be unreliable)
6. I second all the comments re breath and breathing. Sometimes it seems completely counterintuitive.
If someone recommends something different than what i've said, believe them.
Best of luck.
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Author: Mark Horne
Date: 2009-01-29 22:01
What clarinet is she using? Some of the single register key basses can be difficult to attack in that range. Specifically, I have a Yamaha YCL 221 II that has a relatively low position for the register key and I find it nearly impossible to get a clean attack on the high C and the two notes below (slurring is no problem and sounds fine).
I have an older noblet with a single register (which is placed higher - closer to the neck) that does not present problems with attacking these notes. My double-register buffet bass also allows for clean attacks on these notes.
For the Yamaha, I have used a Fobes Debut mouthpiece with good results, but prefer the sound of the Vandoren B44. To help with the high notes I'll go to a stiff reed (3 1/2 or so) and sand it down until I get a reasonable balance of sound, high-note response, and resistance. Constant practice will help with this range, but it seems sort of silly when switching to another horn can solve the problem (for me, anyhow).
Good luck to your daughter.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-01-29 22:16
I know this is heresy, but how about making some minor note changes rather than going in knowing that certain notes are going to be clammed and making her a nervous wreck to boot?
Regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-01-30 13:17
The key to high notes is voicing.
Have your daughter breathe out without the instrument and without vocalizing, holding her tongue up near the top of her mouth to create a rushing sound. Listen for the resonating pitch of the air stream. It's like whistling without pursing your lips.
She'll find that she can raise and lower the pitch by changing her tongue position. The pitch goes up when she draws the tip of her tongue backward and down, raising the back of her tongue toward her soft palate.
Learn what it feels like to resonate the high C, and then do exactly the same on the instrument. It won't take long to get the proper "feel." It may help to imagine making room to hold an egg in the front of your mouth.
It's the same principle as the "bugle call" exercise I've described several times. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=113165&t=113147.
Good luck to your daughter. Let us know how she does.
Ken Shaw
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-01-30 16:56
i scanned this thread quick - i might have missed something -
did you have someone else play the instrument?
e.g., get a clarinet teacher to try the instrument - make sure its working properly.
a very minor leak and the higher notes won't speak.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-01-31 01:08
Try this:
Many younger students who have a hard time playing B and C above the staff, can often easily play a D above the C.
Start with the F below high C, then have the student half hole the first finger and tongue to get the High D.
Once they can do this easily, have them then slur down to the C. 9 times out of 10 the C will come out clearly. Do this a number of times daily over a few weeks, and the student will become comfortable with the embouchure and breath support necessary to play the high C.
Try it, it works.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New Buffet Clarinets
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Author: tkillian
Date: 2009-02-04 12:15
Well, my daughter got a 98!
She played all of her high notes cleanly and clearly.
I think besides practice she did the following
1. I told her to think of the regular clarinet embouchure for those notes
2. She used a CANE reed with the Clarke Forbes mouthpiece and Rovner light ligature. The Legere reed sounded great in the midrange but week in the upper register and she could not control it. It was a 2.5 ....so I might eventually try a #2 strength in the Legere.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-02-04 12:48
For some reason Legere reeds don't work so good on some mouthpieces but not others. Maybe it's the same reason that some cane reeds work better on some mouthpieces and not others, or maybe not. With my mouthpiece I had problems with Legere that I don't have with my regular reeds.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-02-04 17:08
Congratulations to your daughter.
Ken Shaw, your explanation of voicing is also quite helpful to me. I had heard the term, but didn't realize it was something I had long been doing instinctively on all sizes of clarinets. I now see that it's essential on notes that are otherwise difficult to attack. Now that I better understand the mechanism I can prepare my attack by deliberately tuning the cavity resonance. So far, it seems to work from bass to eefer!
Thanks, and best regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
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