 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JJsmom
Date: 2009-01-29 02:01
I need some feed back regarding balance within a section. I play in a community band and I don't think the balance in the clarinet section is appropriate. 5 on first part; 2 on 2nd part; and 5 on 3rd part. I'm one of the 2 on second and seem to be left in the lurch when the other player is absent. Either we are great players who can handle it alone or the 2nd clarinet section is being ignored. Comments please.
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Author: DixieSax
Date: 2009-01-29 02:22
You are correct. If you have 12 players in the section, I would seat
3 firsts
4 seconds
5 thirds
All the parts are important or the composer would not have included them, and the first part will be heard from the reality of the register. This is actually one of the biggest gripes I have with community bands.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2009-01-29 03:08
Does your band do auditions or are people allowed to sit wherever they want? How was it decided who plays what part? Is your conductor okay with how it is now?
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-01-29 08:05
I'm sure a quiet discussion with the conductor after rehearsal would be welcomed, raising the possibility of some 'help' with the second part. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get one of the first players to volunteer to help out on the second part to balance the band.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-29 09:16
Band politics generally tend to dictate where certain players think they should be, regardless if they can play or not.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-01-29 11:59
The band I'm playing in right now passes the parts around, so I'm never sure what the distribution is, since the players don't move around. I discovered someone in the back row was playing first on a piece at the last rehearsal.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-01-29 13:58
The balance isn't right, but the reason why it's so out of whack may be more important to the director than the musical effect. I'd agree that either 3-4-5 or 4-4-4 would be much better. Are the thirds players the conductor doesn't trust because of sound or range and wants to hide? Are the firsts people who have made it plain they don't want to play second and the conductor is giving in rather than lose them completely? Were the sections at one time balanced and attrition has affected the second section more than the others?
Ask the conductor about getting help for you, but be ready for any answer whether musical or not.
Karl
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Author: NHClarinetLady23
Date: 2009-01-29 14:05
i'm not sure but maybe they are going by sousa band seating? he usually put more clarinet on first and fewer on the other parts.
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2009-01-29 14:18
In my band, where the first few players are SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than the last, I would probably even seat them 2-4-6. If they're all strong players, 4-4-4 is ideal.
I used to direct a community band, and the politics of who got to play first on which tunes was left up to the individual section leaders. Some were fair, while others hogged the juicy parts for themselves. Often the section leader was someone well past their prime, who just refused to give up their seat - it was a hot mess, to be honest. I would talk with the director, although his hands might be tied, like mine were.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2009-01-29 14:46
I think my band's clarinet section is...
1st part - 3
2nd part - 5
3rd part - 6
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2009-01-29 16:16
FWIW:
The clarinet section which I lead also has 12 players.
The distribution is either...
1st - 2
2nd - 4
3rd - 6
1st - 3
2nd - 4
3rd - 5
A degree of re-shuffling can occur depending on the repertoire.
>>> Either we are great players who can handle it alone or the 2nd clarinet section is being ignored <<<
5/2/5 would appear to be a little lumpy. However, the players' abilities may well be the justification for this. If you and your (2nd) partner were very strong players then the line up could be forgiven, but is still a little confusing; why wouldn't the strongest players be playing the first part?
Not that the best players should always be assigned the more prestigious positions. I try to have at least one strong player in each section.
Section balance is an art, and no prescribed and simple solution is the definitive answer, as no one here knows the context of your situation. Because you "...don't think the balance in the clarinet section is appropriate" then it's a fair bet that this is the case. The EXACT solution, however, cannot be provided by anyone here.
Regards,
- Liam
Post Edited (2009-01-30 00:43)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-01-29 21:27
I have a real problem with band directors who are always shushing the first clarinets, not realizing that they are right under his/her ear while the brass section is 20 feet away. I've attended too many high school band concerts where the top clarinets are inaudible to me in the audience at the same time as they are being throttled from the podium.
Having an odd number of players on any part reduces the product by more than a half when there is a page turn requiring one player on each stand to stop playing to turn the page.
Certainly there ought to be more than only 2 second clarinets in JJsmom's band, but i don't have any problem with there being 5 or 6 first clarinets. Can you imagine a symphony orchestra with only 2 first violins?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-01-29 21:53
I wouldn't have a problem with 5 or 6 first clarinets, if there are at least as many on second and third. First clarinet parts tend to be in a loud, projecting range, where second and third are generally in throat tones and low notes that do not speak as well. It's very rare, in my experience, to find a wind band where the second and third parts are represented with nearly enough oomph in relation to the first. When you do find that ensemble, it's glorious.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: JJsmom
Date: 2009-01-30 04:22
Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my post. You've confirmed what I thought.
We do not have auditions for seating. I've never heard the first chair clarinet say anything about it. As far as I can tell, it's decided behind closed doors at the "board meetings" and I don't know if the director attends. I've begun to dread the start of a new season because I never know what changes will be made. I've seen a not so wonderful 3rd clarinet moved to 1st part over members who play better and were members longer. I was told another 2nd clarinet was needed when I joined and in my opinion, at least, am capable of playing 1st and have done so in other bands. 2 new players were at the first rehearsal at the start of this season and were put on 1st. One of them even asked to play 2nd and was told no. I really enjoy 2nd part, so it's not that I resent the firsts. I have a blast playing the part well. I think that every part should have a mix of strong/not as strong players but even that doesn't mesh with what is going on here. I'm going to have a talk with the director now that I know I'm not way off base. Thanks again for the feedback and I will update if any progress is made.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-30 23:53
A lot of good thoughts above, here's my 2 cents:
The section distribution should be determined by what the ENSEMBLE needs and not what the MEMBERS want. Obviously no situation is perfect...but 5/2/5 is a ridiculous balance problem. Are the second players amplified in some way?
If the director is not involved with these determinations I would be suspect of the musical outcome in the first place!
It sounds as if you have stumbled upon a dysfunctional performing ensemble. I do think it's fantastic that you are able to enjoy as much satisfaction as you do!
In the (high school) ensemble that I direct everyone swaps all parts between pieces, as Merlin described...except I make them get up and move around.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: JJsmom
Date: 2009-01-31 02:58
Tobin, let me clarify. I should have written "enjoyed" as in past tense because until this season there were only 3 first players. My fellow 2nd player and I were strong enough to hold our own but I doubt that will be the case with 5 players on 1st. I agree that placement should be based on what is best for the organization and not always what we want. I should have questioned the decision to move the 3rd section player to 1st part over better players who had been in the band for a longer time but I would probably been seen as whining since he was moved ahead of me.
We did a clarinet choir last season and the 2 other players on 2nd with me rarely showed up for rehearsal. I realize that this is an adult group and everyone has other priorities, but it still left me in an uncomfortable position at times. It's great to be able to take a breath once in a while without leaving an extremely noticeable gap! That is something that I intend to make an issue of if we decide to do a clarinet ensemble again. I suppose I should take all this as a compliment in a way. At least, I'm trying to tell myself that since the part has been covered and the director hasn't had a problem, the 2nds must have been doing well. On the other hand, we are beginning to feel a bit taken for granted.
Good for you for letting your students play all the parts. I mostly played 1st part before and have found the 2nd part to be a challenge and I think have liked it so much because it was so different from what I played before. The blending of the different parts that has so good up until now is going to be lost in the imbalance and the director will have to notice.
Thanks for letting me rant!
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