 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2009-01-27 22:09
Clarinet BBoard,
Syllable choices aside, which have you had more success with:
1)
Da Da Gah - Da Da Gah - Da Da Gah
2)
Da Gah Da - Da Gah Da - Da Gah Da
3)
Da Gah Da - Gah Da Gah - Da Gah Da
I've heard of people doing all three, however, I've only had success with the first. Success meaning triplet sixteenths at 126 for a measure or so.
I've found a thousand posts in the archives regarding double tonguing; triple tonguing is only briefly brought up in these threads.
Can the "flip" method I've read about be used for triple tonguing?
Regards,
- Liam
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-27 22:27
I can't triple tongue, though I've had most success with 2 when I have tried it - which is odd as I can't do 1 so well which is the same as 2, but the emphasis has shifted.
3 to me feels more like sextruplets - fine if it's long strings of tongued triplets, but they do feel like they're grouped in 2s in a hemiola-type manner as the triplet feel (with emphasis on the 1st of each triplet group)has gone.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-01-27 22:52
What triple-tonguing I've done (places like Mendelssohn Italian Symphony, Debussy Fetes from Nocturnes) has been method 2, though I have the same problem doing it much above clarion G that I and many others who've posted about this have with double-tonguing up high. I'd guess if the "flip" approach works, it would be through the same hemiola approach you've described in #3, since your tongue only goes up and down.
Karl
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2009-01-27 22:59
Interesting...
On the subject of preferred patterns:
There appears to be a consensus among trumpet players to employ the first pattern.
Among brass players there would be a large enough sample size to have one pattern favored over another, justified by a success to failure ratio. Whereas I only know one other clarinet player who can triple tongue, so I cannot definitively infer which pattern is superior.
Because multiple tonguing is an almost mandatory technique on brass instruments, and not so much on clarinet, it could be risky to draw comparisons between two different instruments. Because of this, I see no reason for clarinetists to imitate the brass community.
This is why I was interested to hear which pattern has had the most success when applied to clarinet.
Hope to hear some figures soon,
- Liam
Post Edited (2009-01-28 05:29)
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2009-01-28 03:03
Ed,
I've read that article. Pino appears to be solely concerned with double tonguing. On the topic of triple tonguing he says:
"Triple tonguing comes later"
That's about the depth to which he engages the subject.
Regards,
- Liam
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Author: rdc
Date: 2009-01-28 13:35
David Pino's book "The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing" goes into more detail on triple tonguing. I don't have it available to consult at the moment, but I believe he advocates "tuttle-tuh, tuttle-tuh," which would correspond to "da-gah-da, da-gah-da."
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Author: NHClarinetLady23
Date: 2009-01-28 14:25
To the vets, is this really a necessary skill? I understand why younger players might be drawn to this, but I was just curious what the older players think about this.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-28 15:05
I was introduced to double & triple tonguing by a brass player, so I mostly use your method #1 for triples. However, I also use a "flip triple" for figures such as in one of the Holst Suites, 3d Mve, up around F6. They are usually slurred, but I discovered (almost by accident) that I could actually tongue them by flipping them and single tonguing the eighths that follow. The pattern is sort of like: Ta-Dur-Da Ta, Ta Ta, Ta-Dur-Da Ta. Ta Ta (the dashs represent the triplet figure notes) Consecutive flip trips would go like: Ta-Dur-Da Ta-Dur-Da etc. "Ta" is the initial articulation, the "dur" is the re-articulation when the tongue passes over the tip of the mouthpiece and the "da" is the third artic. when it comes back down again. This "flip trip" only works for me when the triplet is really fast. For slower trips, I use method #1.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2009-01-28 19:03
Please excuse my ignorance, but can anyone name 3 decent pieces of music which require the use of triple tonguing?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-28 19:11
elmo lewis wrote:
> Please excuse my ignorance, but can anyone name 3 decent pieces
> of music which require the use of triple tonguing?
The last movement of Mendelssohn Symphony #4 comes immediately to mind.
Triple tonguing is not "required" (your words) but if you can do it, the movement certainly is easier to negotiate.
...GBK
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2009-01-29 00:31
elmo lewis wrote:
> Please excuse my ignorance, but can anyone name 3 decent pieces
> of music which require the use of triple tonguing?
I single tongue Mendelssohn 4, since the fast triplets are only one beat at a time.
Then there's Capriccio Italien - almost an entire page of tongued triplets at quarter = 192. And it gets even faster towards the end. Most clarinet players just hide behind the strings, but there is one place for several beats where it is just woodwinds tonguing. One most recordings, the clarinets slur two and tongue one, but that is not correct, and a serious clarinetist should do everything possible to play what's on the page.
Since you asked for three, here are two more where I've done it:
Dvorak New World Symphony (if the conductor wants to push the Scherzo)
Rachmaninoff Second Symphony - 2nd part
Hopefully those pieces are decent enough for you.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-29 05:58
There's a spot or two in Scheherazade (orchestral or band transcription) where triple-tonguing would come in handy.
I once played a band transcription of Berlioz's Roman Carnival Overture which would have been a good candidate for triple-tonguing, too.
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