 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sianie9
Date: 2009-01-26 16:21
Hi all,
I've just decided to start picking up the clarinet again after a year of not playing (switched to flute). I've started to become very interested in jazz and would like to retry the clari. I had a very dodgy cheapo clarinet from ebay which played very badly and was partly what put me off! I've managed to get hold of an aged Boosey & Hawkes clari (circa 1972) which I am going to get serviced. The mouthpiece is a Buffet one, although I'm not sure if that means it came with the clarinet or not...?? I'd like to get a new mouthpiece. I know everyone will say I need to test out different ones, but can someone point me in the right direction for mouthpieces which will work well with a Boosey and with jazz style music?
Ta!
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Author: ned
Date: 2009-01-26 19:07
Use the one you have already first, and if it's not suiting you, then a Vandoren 5JB is worth a try.
The ''JB'' stands for Jazz Band, although in my experience, jazz can be played on just about anything.........................
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-01-26 22:31
A 1972 B&H instrument would originally have come with a B&H mouthpiece which has a somewhat different bore to the standard french style and this does have implications for intonation. (B&H didn't take over Buffet for several more years and quit making their own clarinets and start selling the Buffet clarinets with Buffet bores instead).
But HEY its JAZZ!!!!
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2009-01-26 23:38
Exactly how do they change the dimensions of a mouthpiece to make it sound "jazzy" ?
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-01-27 03:04
Johnny Galaga wrote:
> Exactly how do they change the dimensions of a mouthpiece to
> make it sound "jazzy" ?
Let's put it this way - you're not going to see many people trying to play jazz on an M13Lyre.
As with saxophone, jazz clarinetists tend to favour a medium to medium large tip opening.
For clarinet, that's usually something in the .045" or larger range.
As with all things related to mouthpieces, reeds and personal embouchures, your mileage may vary.
FWIW, I play a Vandoren B40 13 series with Vandoren blue box #3 or V12 #3 for everything - shows, jazz, big band, orchestral, chamber music...
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-01-27 05:17
I think it's much less of a concern today than in the past.
In the old days you really needed volume and you'd have a wide-bore Selmer passing as much air as you could make flow.
But the advent of the microphone means that you can have a pretty wide range of options. An awful lot of todays jazz players are very refined with strong legit chops as well.
I always like a 3.5-4 reed on a medium mpc like a B45 or B46. I currently use a Portnoy BP02, which I think is .045" at the tip and which I can also use as my legit setup.
To me, it's all about flexibility. In college, I felt a little restricted by high-stability setups like #5 reeds and .040-.042 mpc openings. But going to a medium tip opening and backing off to #4 reeds restored what I was looking for. I also like the Portnoy because it has a strong throat register with very little blowing effort. Very easy to play in a conversational way.
I think you'll see fewer folks today using the really wide openings and soft reeds, unless they're in a more traditional/New Orleans bag. If for no other reason, because most strong players today whether pro or amateur are also involved in something more refined like show work, chamber music, community bands, etc.
Hopefully Ben Redwine will weigh in on this. He does a lot of jazz, but is also in the USNA band, I believe.
One other issue is not to make the setup itself too much of an issue. A lot of your jazz sound is going to be what you're internalized from your listening, and it's easy to forget just how much your ear is the boss of all that.
I like the idea of starting out with whatever you're got (or something the suits your normal playing) and learn through practice whether it's adequate or if (and how) it might be holding you back.
Allen Cole
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-27 08:21
Merlin Williams wrote:
<<Let's put it this way - you're not going to see many people trying to play jazz on an M13Lyre.>>
But there are some notable exceptions. Eddie Daniels plays on relatively closed mouthpieces, and the mouthpieces Leblanc sells under his name have relatively close facings as well. The one I play on has a 1.04 mm (0.041") facing. I use it mostly for classical playing, because that's most of what I play, but it works great for jazz, too, as you would expect.
I used to play on a Gigliotti P34, which had an even closer facing, and I had no trouble playing in a jazz or klezmer style on it, either.
The main thing, I think, is to play on something that feels comfortable to you. Then you can make it sound however you like.
Post Edited (2009-01-27 12:56)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2009-01-27 11:16
Hello,
Since Allen asked me to weigh in, I will!
Please, whatever you play, do it with a good sound. The typical open facing mouthpiece lets you have a lot of power and volume, but is more difficult to control than a closer facing. Since you're picking up the clarinet again, I'll suggest that you go a little closer in the facing, use a harder reed and try to get a good clarinet sound, then you can experiment with more open mouthpieces to cut through a big band, if you wish. There's nothing quite as terrible as a bad sounding clarinetist, even if one is playing some sweet notes. If you have specific questions, please feel free to contact me!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Sianie9
Date: 2009-01-27 12:16
Thanks guys -
I think for now I am going to get one of the yamaha mouthpieces as they are relatively cheap but still much better than the Buffet - then I can think about a proper upgrade when I've got back into the habit!
To be honest, I'd really like to try the sax but am umming and ahhing about it as I live in a flat and I think it may be a step too far in terms of loudness! I tried an alto in the shop and was amazed at how much easier it was to blow than the clari, but again that could be down to my mouthpiece.....! That's partly why I'm thinking a more open mouthpiece may be the way to go.
Still, music is a journey, wouldn't be any fun if there was nothing I wanted to to try in the future!
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Author: interd0g
Date: 2009-01-27 17:56
I played for many years with a Brilhart 3 and was very happy, once I found out how to prepare reeds for it. Poeple would remark on the sound.
Right now I use a vandoren 5JB for jazz and section work and thats also fine. The 5JB is open and long and allows for plenty of power and vibrato.
But its difficult to produce a refined sound suitable for chamber music on the 5JB so I have a 2 mouthpiece regime.
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Author: ned
Date: 2009-01-27 22:53
allencole says: ''I think you'll see fewer folks today using the really wide openings and soft reeds, unless they're in a more traditional/New Orleans bag.''
This is true enough for those folk wanting a particular ''down home'' tone, as it were.
I have opted for this as well, except that I find that the 5JB + a hard reed (Rico Royal brand) rated at about 3.0 to 3.5 is the only combination that gives me the tone and power I need.
I wish I could get by with (say) a #2 or 2.5 but the reed closes on the m.p. otherwise because I don't use a microphone. The M.O. for N.O. is - unamplified/acoustic.
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Author: ned
Date: 2009-01-27 23:06
''otherwise because '' Errrrr..........
Bad grammar......sorry.
I tend to 'blow' the reed/m.p. shut with soft reeds and.................this is because I use hard reeds and N.O. jazz (in my circle) demands an acoustic performance. I can't make myself heard over the rest of the band if I go for the 'soft' option.
I have had a 5 week layoff and it will now require at least a 2 week practice period to regain my embouchure......................by the way.
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Author: Sianie9
Date: 2009-01-28 12:56
Would it be fair to say that a more open mouthpiece would require a looser embouchure on the whole? The reason I ask is that when I was having lessons I struggled with the tightness of the embouchure - I also felt that I used a lot of air as the clarinet had a very slow 'attack' and consequently ran out of breath very quickly, felt headachey etc. Normally I'd blame the workman rather than the tools but I think in this instance it really was down to the poor quality clarinet and mouthpiece. This is partly why I'm leaning towards the sax as well......!
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-01-28 14:37
Of course one tries to get the best match of reed to mouthpiece but in general open mouthpieces are more physically demanding than closed mouthpieces. ie embouchure gets tired.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2009-01-28 16:39
Just to add several thoughts to what Ben said....
Absolutely! The quality of one's sound (along with all of the fundamentals of clarinet performance) is extremely important. In my personal experience, I have not been happy with any of the large tip size "jazz" clarinet mouthpieces I've tried over the years. That said, it always comes down to what works for us as individual players.
I'm sure that there are threads on this forum and the SOTW forum where the topic of projection versus volume has been discussed. Please go back and read them. This distinction is sometimes lost with players who are determined to blast through the sound of a large jazz ensemble. I've had numerous experiences where saxophone friends using various kinds of high baffle/smaller chamber mouthpieces sound loud in the immediate area; however, if one walks to the back of the performance space you'll discover their sound drops and does not travel to the back of the hall. I suspect that some jazz clarinet mouthpieces can have a similar projection problem.
The approach I've taken on both clarinet and saxophone is to use a set up that produces a high degree of tonal ring, has strong lower overtones, and a beautiful depth of sound. As an aside, after much experimentation, I settled on mouthpieces that are made with especially high quality hard rubber. It's been my experience that this helps to acheive a greater level of projection and rich tonal qualities.
On clarinet I do most of my playing on a Grabner K14 and on saxophone a custom made Morgan 6C. The K14 has approximately a 1.09 MM tip opening which is considered to be on the close side by some jazz players. However, I have no problem being heard in a large jazz ensemble. With the K14 I'm able to have a big rich dark sound that projects wonderfully.
I no longer buy-in to the concept that one needs to have a wide open mouthpiece in order to play jazz or be a doubler. After all, playing jazz is much more about the PLAYER than one's equipment.
Roger
Post Edited (2009-01-28 16:43)
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