 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-27 13:19
Hello Everyone,
Well it's finally happened to me, so can anyone help? A gentlemen came to sell me (or my one of my students) a "Buffet E11 Eb" clarinet that his father used to play. He shows up, and it isn't an Eb, it's a C clarinet. Plays wonderfully, needs a little work. Needless to say, I bought it (and my wife didn't even complain).
As I understand, there are no serial lists for E11s?
Second: Logos are engraved, not painted
Third: "Made in France" not Germany
Serial: 24XXXX
Finally: Crystal mouthpiece Bb mouthpiece, on table a signature looks like "D e l a ?? o ? s" on table and "Selmer" on opposite side.
Any thoughts? Was the guy completely wrong and this is an R13?
Hope everyone is well and thanks for the help!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-27 13:37
Don't know anything about crystal mouthpieces, but I am good at guessing puzzles on Wheel of Fortune. 
If I had to guess what the word with the missing letters was, it would be "Delacrois," a French surname. Maybe that will ring a bell for someone.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-27 13:40
"Delacrois" would fit...wouldn't that mean "of the cross?" In all honesty, however, there's no conclusive sign of the "...cr..." but signature ARE signatures.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-27 13:41
There WAS a seperate serial number list for German-built Buffets, but that went the same way as the B&H/The Music Group site they were listed on.
Does this C clarinet say E11 on it, or is it just the Buffet logo and nothing else?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-27 13:49
No E11, Buffet Logos with "Made in France" underneath. No cut-outs underneath the LH pinky keys...but with a body so small it wouldn't need any.
Thanks Chris
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-27 13:56
James wrote:
<<"Delacrois" would fit...wouldn't that mean "of the cross?">>
That's right. It's also (probably more commonly) spelled Delacroix, croix (fem.) being the modern French word for cross.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-01-27 14:52
I suspect it is an R13. Serial #24xxxx would put it in the 1983 vintage -- apparently the seller's father was not all that ancient. Ambiguity about the pitch of the instrument and its model would make me a little suspicious about the provenance! Was it warm to the touch?
Older E11s had "push-cork" linkages to the LH pinky keys -- they upgraded to the pin-and-hole mechanics in the 1990s. My 105xxx R13 C clarinet doesn't have any cutout under the LH pinky keys (nor do any of my R13s and RCs) -- are you sure you don't mean RH pinky keys?
I've never encountered a Delacroix mouthpiece -- "if it sounds good [and tunes well] it is good"! (Thanks Duke Ellington). If not you might want to reference earlier C clarinet threads on this site.
Anyway, consider yourself lucky to have acquired a really sweet instrument -- enjoy it in good health!
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-27 15:17
Hello Larry,
You are completely correct...I meant RH pinky keys. Also the LH pinky key linkages are pin-and-hole.
The clarinet was dead cold, I let it warm over minutes and played it only briefly. At the price, I wasn't going to pass up the instrument anyway. I think that the son (who is not a clarinetist) simply was repeating what the local music store told him (and how much fun of them I'm going to make when I stop by next).
I only own one E11 (bought because the price was right...I loan it to students when their horns go in the shop), and the rest of my horns are pro. I'm just surprised that I missed this when I looked the horn over.
I honestly haven't tried the mouthpiece. I'll see if I can work it in today. How's the weather in NOVA, Larry? All snow and ice here!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-01-27 16:05
James,
RH pinky keys are in a cutout on my C clarinet, hmmm!
"Was it warm to the touch?" My attempt at humor; ghetto slang for stolen merchandise.
Weather here in Fairfax County is not too bad -- snowing lightly, ice is coming later, I'm informed.
I could write a book about stupid things my students and I have been told by local music stores employees!
Stay warm, but not stolen.
Larry
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-27 16:13
Are the joints on your C clarinet the same diameter as a Bb clarinet?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-27 17:09
Hi Chris,
I just compared the upper and lower joints end to end with my Bb, and they are exactly the same.
I'm totally thick-headed today, Larry...I missed the joke!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-01-27 17:52
Buffet only started making and selling E11 C clarinets within the last several years -- perhaps further evidence that this is an R13? If it is an R13, it should be in the current serial number database at the Buffet website. Try entering the number there. (Though I think there may be some missing numbers in the 240000 - 249,999 range.) If it doesn't turn up, try a few numbers on either side. It might very well have been custom ordered because the demand for C clarinets in the early 1980's probably wasn't large. (No Bulletin Board to stimulate GAS -- one of the few diseases spread by internet contact. )
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-27 18:02
Hello Jack, When I had thought to consult Buffet's site I was still thinking the horn was an E11. The site confirms what others had thought: the instrument was made in 1983.
What does the designation BC 1631 mean, anyone? BC 1631-2 is an Eb clarinet, apparently.
James
EDIT: I have put an email into Buffet to get the "final word". Any more contributions would be welcome, and thanks for the help folks!
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2009-01-27 18:14)
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-01-27 18:17
I have posted this before, so apologies for repetition here
Looks like 16 relates to Key of C.....
***************************************************
Below is a collation of information from the BB regarding common info on Buffet site
Model designation n�1 indicates polycylindrical bore
Am�rique appears to be the designation for an R13 made for American market
It looks like that if there are no other codes, it is assumed to be a R13
Decoding the letter and number sequence
For a sequence such as BCxxyy(c)-d-e ...............
BC = Buffet Crampon
xx
This specifies the key, with
11 = Bb (old code, SiB=Bb)
12 = A (old code, La=A)
15 = Eb (old code, MiB=Eb)
17 = F
yy
This specifies the model, with
02 = E13
12 = RC
31 = R13
83 = Prestige RC Bass to Eb
93 = Prestige RC Bass to low C
23 = Basset
c
Optional code, meaning
G = greenline
L = Left hand Eb lever
d
Specifies key plating, where
02 = silver
05 = nickle
e
Specifies pitch
0 = 440
2 = 442
4 = 444
So
BC1131(L)-02-0 equals a Bb (11) R13 (31) with a LH Eb lever (L) with silver plated keys (02) tuned to 440 (0)
Information attributed to Jack Kissinger and Francois Kloc
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-27 18:17
LarryBocaner wrote:
> RH pinky keys are in a cutout on my C clarinet, hmmm!
Just for reference - my silver plated R13 C clarinet, 282xxx (made in 1986) has no cut outs under the RH pinky keys. LH pinky key linkages are pin-and-hole.
...GBK
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-01-27 18:53
Thanks Chris,
I haven't been keeping up with the BB as I used, and so I missed your previous post. Thanks for providing the information again.
Thanks GBK for providing some information that would allow for inconsistencies in the RH cut out trait. Of course I'd love to have an R13 C, especially when I wasn't looking for one.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-27 21:44
"Of course I'd love to have an R13 C, especially when I wasn't looking for one."
There you go - you've got an R13 C without even lifting a finger (or parting with mega money)! Did you buy a lottery ticket this week too? Go and check your numbers if you did.
Is it just me thinking 'spawny git' here?
Good on you!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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