 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Gordon
Date: 2000-10-20 10:34
Why is it that for so many years L Blanc has persisted in using an adhesive for corks and pads that has adhesive properties not much better than cheese.
After a short time the key corks and pads begin falling out.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-10-20 14:46
The first thing I did, after buying my LeBlanc Concertos about ten years ago, was to have cork pads put on the upper joints. I have experianced NO PROBLEMS with the remaining LeBlanc installed pads or corks other than the same kinds of minor repairs and "tweeks" that is normal in maintaining my other Buffet and Selmer instruments. Also, in all my years of teaching, the LeBlanc instruments were quite durable (even in the hands of begining students who did not follow carefull handling instructions) with no more unusual or excessive repair histories than the other instruments in our schools inventory. I am sorry to dissagree with your "cheese" theory on bonding at LeBlanc.. Good luck.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-20 15:35
Gordon, I have never experienced such problems with LeBlanc's corks and pads. You may want to complain to the company if something is wrong with your particular clarinet, as I don't believe that is normal. Cold temps will have that effect on pads and corks also. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-20 21:28
Agree, with both of the posts above. : - )
The Glue or advesive recommended/used varies from repairman to repairman, from manufacturer to manufacturer, and from clarinetist to clarinetist. Everybody has their "favorite" just like breakfast cereal !
French shellac is very easy to apply. You might consider getting a tube and a pad slick and then YOU can handle small frustrating incidents. Timing is always when you least expect it. Most Emergency Clarinet Repair Kits include a pad slick of some type and a product like Micro (brand) French Shellac.
I just started doing my own Corks a couple of weeks ago and now I can change whenever them I want. I can also wait (and not be Type A anticipating a problem).
It has been a *FUN* learning experience related to my Hobby .... Clarinet.
Best of luck.
mw
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Author: Todd
Date: 2000-10-20 21:36
I've had the same problem with corks falling off my LeBlanc, less than a year after I purchased it. It has been frustrating. I also notice the overall finish of the LeBlanc is not a nice as other makes, where there is definite evidence of glue seams between the metal and wood interface and not polished flush. However, it doesn't affect the playing of the instrument. I just hope it holds up and I don't open my case one day to find it in smaller fragments. And, I'm very careful about temperature and humidity fluctuations. There isn't a whole lot in the Seattle area.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-10-21 04:30
Adhesive properties of cheese? LeBlanc? Aren't these both made in Wisconsin?
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-21 21:26
Hmmm... I haven't had such bad luck with the LeBlancs. I have found them to be quite well made, and even in the hands of a young student, quite durable. Todd, did you buy your instrument new, or used. If you buy an instrument used, the repair tech could have put just about any brand of glue, or used one of many, even at times slipshod, techniques in repairing something. Either it has been "repaired" by somebody, or Leblanc instruments have taken a swift downturn in quality. As far as the type of cork cement goes, I myself use the LeBlanc cork cement. This seems to stick quite well, but I could see where it wouldn't if it was hastily put on. As far as pad cement goes, I prefer the glue stick type. I prefer the pad cement and heat method of putting in pads, even in an emergency. I don't like the Micro or Valentino quick fixes, although these are quite legitimate, (whereas duct tape is not). I would steer clear of any repair tech who sends instruments out of the shop with duct tape fixes... :-) -- Nate Zeien
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-22 01:02
Nate, as an aside, I use George's Glue Sticks. However, in my comments above, I didn't recommend (hot) glue because it is (more) expensive & requires a higher temperature to melt. The glue invariably leads to "hot hands" on the first couple of tries to seat a pad. Many people use a glue gun with good results. French shellac is OK. However, from what I've looked at it doesn't seem to have equal "memory" (to last for 10 years) and can become quite brittle, in time. mw
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-22 01:28
Mark, by my statement about the heat method, I did not mean only the flame method. I, myself use both a bunsen burner and a glue gun, depending on the situation. The hot glue gun works quite well, and for someone who hasn't much experience with repadding an instrument, it is much safer. In your comment about glue sticks being more expensive, more expensive than what? Also, you couldn't have described the problem with the shellac type pad cement any better. This is precisely the reason I don't like it. Also, what are George's Glue sticks? Are these specific to instrument repair, or general hot glue. I know that both work fine, although the instrument repair grade is a bit more expensive, and also has some minor advantages. The only good thing I have to say about the shellac, is that it has a nice smell to it when heated up. Sort of reminds me of maple syrup or something, but I can't put my finger on it. Quite a contrast to a torched skin pad. Hmmm, maybe I'm just wierd. Wait... I AM weird. I guess that's what LeBlanc's cork cement does to you after a while. :-) -- Nate Zeien
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-22 02:54
First, I was **REALLY** only commenting about the fact that I originally hadn't recommended anything other than quick fix stuff. Players need to be able to, at a minimum (IMO), keep their clarinets going untill they can get to a repair shop. I also don't think that a single solitary pad or cork coming undone should get us running to the repairman. IF we were going anyway, well that would be one thing. BUT, if we hadn't planned on going ... perhaps we can fend for ourselves in the meantime, certainly we ought to be able to make it for a time on our own. (with the fairly easy chores that is) (( I would direct this to the advancing player, as opposed to a 6 month novice))
OK, George's Glue is a well-kept secret. It is a high temperature Glue, renowned to hold its memory for a long time. Some of the best known tech's across the U.S. use it. IMO, it *IS* expensive, at 80 cents or so a stick, sold by the dozen. IMO, its a dabbin' good, globbin' good glue!
Nate, again, I have no prejudice here. French shellac cement is a great quickfix, and requires no heat to apply it. Glue guns & glue sticks are (probably) even better depending on the experience, patience & know-how of the user.
I am fortunate in that I have had the opportunity to work with some great techs locally, who have been willing to share some knowledge. mw
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-22 02:58
Nate, contact me off the BBS if you want more info on George's. I didn't want this to turn into a commercial endorsement on Sneezy. I only know one place to get it, and mark has been pretty clear that we should avoid commercial responses. Good luck to all.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-22 04:48
Mark W, no questions about where to buy it, just what it was. Is it sort of yellow in color. From your description, it probably similar to what I use. I just don't happen to know the name of it. I wasn't trying to turn this into a commercial endorsement, I was just wondering what it was. Who knows, I may have been using it all along, not knowing what it's called. Whatever I'm using works for me, so I continue using it. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-22 20:32
Nate, I think you misunderstood. You said:
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"I wasn't trying to turn this into a commercial endorsement, I was just wondering what it was."
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I wasn't accusing you of anything. It was *I* who was trying to avoid the commercial aspect of things. *NOT YOU* :-) mw
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Author: Gordon (New Zealand)
Date: 2000-10-23 15:47
In the Le Blanc Adhesive thread I was comenting on the poor Le Blanc cork and pad adhesive from the perspective of a repairer of 25 years, and mechanical engineer, who has much contact with new instruments. It is common to find a third of the corks and maybe a couple of pads fall off in the first year or two. Buffet has been known recently to use a similar poor adhesive.
I think most of the problem is that hot melt adhesives applied with a glue gun to a cold (especially metal) surface actually have very poor adhesive properties. I very much doubt that the manufacturers are heating the keys.
Yamaha and Yanigasawa (also Japanese - sax) use a vastly superior adhesive which is unlikely to fail over at least a decade.
Buffet used to use a very high quality pad, but now use spongy felt. I suppose this is so that they can get away with less accuracy in pad/key alignment in an unskilled mass production line!
And I wonder why (French) Selmer in their 'Signature' model uses larger diameter tone holes without using larger diameter pads and key cups. This means that the pads are sealing in some cases VERY close to their edges - this is really bad for reliable pad seating.
Why do the top French makes have so much trouble now with swelling and jamming tenon timber. This is a problem on most new instruments imported here now, and was not a big problem a decade ago. Is the timber no longer aged.... or is it now a lower grade of timber?
The Selmer Prologue has an apallingly designed linkage from the (optional extra) left-hand D#/G# lever to the D#/G# key.
I could go on and on. The standard of manufacture and mechanical design of top instruments is, in my opinion, going dowhill fast. Yamaha is an exception.
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